genealogy

More Pieces To The Mysterious John VESS of South Carolina

/ J. L.

In August of 2020, I discovered two John Vess families in South Carolina whose origins are a mystery.

The first is an 1850 census record for John and William E. Vess of Saluda Regiment, Abbeville, South Carolina. Both of them are in their 20’s, they are listed as carpenters, and they claim to be born in North Carolina.

The second is an 1850 census record for John Vess and Drucilla Vess of Saluda, Abbeville, South Carolina. John is 25 and he is listed as a farmer. 1860 census, suggests John Vess died, for that it is just Drucilla Turner and James Vest (assuming their son).

Today, I came across Civil War records for John Vess and William VESTZ (pretty sure it’s William Vess). The first record, John Vess states he enlisted in Greenville, South Carolina and his occupation is a carpenter. These two records, might be referring to John and William Vess from the 1850 census.
According to these records, John Vess was hospitalized and William was captured. I am not sure if they survived the war though.

In between John Vess and William Vestz, is a Civil War record for JOHN VEST. He too was enlisted in Greenville, South Carolina. What makes his record so interesting, is that he was forced to write a letter asking to be discharged from the military due to his age. The discharge was granted, which means this John Vest was born sometime before 1815.

Fold3: Civil War Record and Letter Certifying His Age

I found an 1880 census record for a John Vest in Greenville, South Carolina with a birth year that would put him at the approx. same age as John Vest in the Civil War record above. This John Vest (1880 census) was born about 1815 in South Carolina and states both his parents were born in South Carolina.

This is very intriguing, because there are no early records of a VEST or VESS family in South Carolina. All we know is that we have records that strongly suggest that Nathaniel Vess was born in South Carolina in 1794 with a connection to Greenville, South Carolina via Clarinda Bellew who also states both his parents were born in South Carolina (below). Could Nathan Vess and John Vest be related???







John BESS: A Crazy Goose Chase Or A Great New Lead!

/ J. L. / 1 Comment

I don’t like wild goose chases, but this one is pretty interesting and has really caught my attention.

Interesting Notes On Peter’s 1840 Census

Looking at Peter’s 1840 census record, he appears to be near the Pettit, Mooney, and Toney families again. What happened to Cedar Creek?

The most fascinating thing about Peter’s 1840 census is that everyone listed (below) has, at one time or another, been associated with Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. This blew my mind, but I don’t know if it means anything.

The Hambrick Family

In a previous post, Vince sent me a link about the Sparks family living in Rutherford County, North Carolina via Lewis Morgan Sparks. Lewis Morgan Sparks married Sarah Bridges, daughter of Samuel Bridges and Mary Hamrick.

Peter is also shown on the 1820 census with the Hambrick and Bridges family (below). According to The Hambricks Generations, the Blantons, Greens, Bridges, Champions, Washburns, Bowens, and McSwains came to America with the Hamrick / Hambrick family (pg.13). This publication also states the Bridges and Logan families were close. This is very interesting, because we find Peter Vess smack dab in the middle of all those inter-related families. For example, James Young is married to a Blanton. McSwine (McSwain) is listed on the 1820 census, with Logan on the next page with more Bridges. Even more interesting, is that these families also have connections with Bill’s Creek Baptist Church.

Henry Pettit 1810 Census: John BEAS

Since Peter is on census records listed closely with the Pettit family and we know Henry Pettit is from Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I decided to take another look at his 1810 census record.

On the list with Henry Pettit is John BEAS.
Now, at first, I thought maybe this name was suppose to be “BIAS” and BIAS is often associated with BYERS (because of the sounds of I and E). However, there is a BYERS listed here, so the census taker clearly knew how to spell BYERS, so BEAS is likely not a mistake and is probably spelled to sound like “BESS.” Interesting.

John Bess of Thicketty Creek

I can’t find anything on John “BEAS,” however, I did find a South Carolina land record for John BESS with a Cantrell neighbor. On the 1810 census record (above), John BEAS is listed next to Reubin Cantrell.

1800 Census Record: John BESS

I found John Bess on an 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina. This is an interesting record, because the page prior, we have Henry Pettit’s father listed (Joshua Pettit). We also have him listed near Samuel Dunaway. John Bess land record for 1810, also mentions DUNWAY.

Thicketty Creek: Broad River Basin – Tryon County

The Thicketty Creek area is very interesting, because it used to be part of Tryon County, North Carolina. It is directly beneath Sandy Run and Shoal Creek where we later find Peter Vess with the Hambrick and Bridges families. It is also near the Pacelot River where we find the Pool, Pettit, Willis, and many other interesting families.

SPARKS Family Near Enoree River

Listed on the 1810 census with John BEAS and Henry PETTIT are a few PENNINGTON families. According to Anna Popejoy, the Pennington and Whitlock family traveled to Franklin County, Alabama together and we know that the Pennington family had a lot of land near FoxTrap. In short, Pennington is a family of interest.

Vince is looking into triangulating with Pennington families who are supposedly descendants of an “Ephriam Pennington.” He mentioned Kentucky, but I did find an Ephraim Pennington in South Carolina via an early marriage record (not specifically dated though). I not sure if it means anything right now.

While investigating the Pennington families on the 1810 census with John BEAS, I found Isaac Pennington (1715-1760) whose son-in-law is Charles King to be very interesting. His neighbor, per land records, was Zachariah SPARKS and they lived near the Enoree River.

Quick note: Isaac Pennington had a son that went to Kentucky, so maybe there is a connection with what Vince is looking at with the descendants of Ephraim Pennington??

Zachariah Sparks 1790 Union County, SC Census: GEORGE VOST

Zachariah is not found on any records for Spartanburg County, NC, but it is important to note that boundaries of early South Carolina were a mess and early records could be listed under anything.

However, I did find him on a 1790 census record which has some very interesting names: George VOST, RAINEY BELLEW Jr., and Zachary SPARKS.

So, I don’t know if this just another wild-goose chase or a really good lead that should be further investigated. This John BEAS is in a really good location. He is listed on a Samuel Dunaway Will dated 1815, so I think I am going to look a little more into Dunaway. Maybe, there are connections to other familiar families.










Sarah Jane Vess: Connected to Peter Instead of Nathan Vess

/ J. L. / 2 Comments

When it comes to the North Carolina VESS family tree, we can all pretty much agree that our earliest known ancestor is Peter Vess; however, Peter was not the only VESS family in North Carolina during his time. According to the 1830 census, Nathaniel Vess and Clarinda Bellew (with her father John Bellew) were also in Rutherford County, North Carolina. For the most part, our family trees from these two men are pretty accurate; however, what if I told you that Sarah Jane Vess (wife of Jackson Pressley), shown as a descendant of Nathaniel Vess, might actually be a descendant of Peter Vess??

DISCLAIMER:

Please note that the information provided within this post is a personal opinion based on personal interpretation of genealogical records and DNA data. Individual researchers and readers are strongly encouraged to do their own research and come to their own conclusions.

Only 1 Connection With The Nathaniel Vess Line

It’s odd, but all my DNA connections to the Nathaniel Vess line are all through the descendants of Sarah Jane Vess and Jackson Pressley.

Now, I just assumed that maybe descendants of other Nathaniel Vess lines are just not testing or maybe DNA relatives are too distant to show up as a DNA match (perhaps Peter and Nathan Vess are half-brothers or cousins). There is also the possibility, I am related to this particular Nathaniel Vess line via my mother’s side who also has deep Carolina roots, but there are other descendants of Peter Vess reporting the same particular Nathaniel Vess connection (so, it’s clearly not on my mother’s side).

However, just recently, Vince informed me that a new tool called, Theory of Family Relativity on myHeritage.com, suggests the descendants of Sarah Jane Vess and Jackson Pressley may be related to Peter Vess via his son John Vess.

That’s a lot to take in!

So, I decided to dust off some old research notebooks and take another look at Nathaniel and Peter Vess.

Sarah Jane Vess VS Mary Jane Vess

Reviewing numerous family trees for Nathaniel Vess, his daughter is often listed as either “Sarah“ Jane Vess or “Mary” Jane Vess; both shown as the wife of Jackson Pressley.

Many researchers have noted that Sarah and Mary are probably the same person, whereas others list them as separate people. However, upon further investigation, Sarah Jane Vess and Mary Jane Vess appear to be two different people who just so happened to be born at the same time (1840) and both have connections to Haywood County, North Carolina!

So, who is who?

In my opinion, based on genealogical records, Mary Jane Vess is likely the daughter of Nathaniel Vess and Clarinda Bellew, whereas Sarah Jane Vess is likely the daughter of John Vess, son of Peter Vess. I come to this conclusion based on marriage and census records, in addition, to the history of John Vess.

What We Know About John Vess (Peter’s son)

John Vess was born about 1820 in North Carolina to Peter and Catherine Vess. He married Elizabeth Taylor and they had 4 children together: Sarah, Silus, Mary, and Sophrona.

Silus and Mary appeared to have died young, Sarah appears to have disappeared, and Sophrona married Columbus Summey.

John Vess disappeared after 1850, during the same time the rest of the Vess family kind of split up; presumably after the death of Catherine. In 1854, we have a newspaper clipping announcing a Petition for Divorce between Elizabeth and John Vess, suggesting John Vess had moved out of state. During the same year, Elizabeth reverts back to her maiden name and marries Joshua Souther. We find her and her children (Viss) living with Joshua Souther in Henderson County, North Carolina in 1860.

Henderson County, NC Makes The Difference

Sarah Jane Vess and Jackson Pressely were married in 1856 and according to the 1860 census record, Sarah and Jackson were living in Henderson County, North Carolina, same county as Elizabeth and Joshua Souther.


In 1860, Mary Jane Vess, was still living with her parents Nathaniel and Clarinda Vess (Vert) in Haywood County, North Carolina. So, clearly not the same the person.

In 1863, Mary Jane Vess married Phillip Davis in Haywood County, North Carolina.


A connection with the Davis family makes sense, considering Andrew Jackson Vess (son of Nathaniel Vess) supposedly married Mary Davis in 1862.

I think the confusion between Sarah Jane Vess and Mary Jane Vess is with their connection to Haywood County, NC, for that we know that Nathan’s family once lived in Haywood County, NC. However, Sarah Jane Vess doesn’t appear in Haywood County until 1870 with Jackson Pressely, after Nathan’s family moved to Tennessee.

I did find a few family trees showing Mary Jane Vess as a descendant of Nathaniel Vess married to Phillip Davis, instead of Jackson Pressley, and interestingly, I am not a DNA match.

Also, I noticed a lot of family trees stating Sarah / Mary Jane Vess died in Washington. However, I believe Sarah Jane Vess, wife of Jackson Pressley, was remarried to a man named Eli Glen, where she eventually moved to Georgia (below). Further research is needed though and surprisingly opens up an entirely new theory about John Vess’s whereabouts about his divorce with Elizabeth Taylor (to be shared in a later post).


Based on genealogical evidence, I am convinced that Mary Jane Vess and Phillip Davis are part of the Nathaniel Vess line whereas Sarah Jane Vess and Jackson Pressley are part of the Peter Vess line.

Connection Between Peter Vess and Nathan Vess Still A Mystery

Well, Sarah Jane Vess was my only DNA connection to Nathaniel Vess. Now, that research strongly supports her connection with Peter Vess instead of Nathan Vess, does that mean Peter and Nathan are not related?? No way!

My Autosomal DNA only goes back 6-8 generations. It barely picks up the descendants of Peter’s children, so technically, if Nathan and Peter are related, it would likely be too distant to show up on my Autosomal DNA test results.

We really need a male Vess descendant from Nathaniel Vess’s line to do a Y-DNA test to confirm a genetic connection between Nathaniel, Peter, and Willis Vess. Until then, we can only assume they are related and we must continue to search for genealogical evidence to confirm their family relationship to one another.










Peter Vess: Patrick County, VA Court Minutes

/ J. L. / 1 Comment

The good stuff is often found in unindexed microfilmed records that force us to skim through each individual record hoping to come across a familiar family name. Oddly, as a genealogist, the one thing I hate to do is read…

It’s not that I don’t know how to read or I struggle to read, I just don’t have time to read. I am a kind of person that reads the summary on the back of books and waits for the movie (except Harry Potter- I read those books).

I’ve come to a point in my research, where I think I’ve pretty much found as much as I could about the VESS family via Indexed records. You know, type in a few keywords and Whola! Desired records appears like magic! Only just recently have I started to make time, with a few cups of coffee, to scour thousands of microfilmed records.

I must admit, once the brain adjusts to deciphering Old English, local history bursts into life!

1793 Dispute

According to Court Records Patrick County, VA 1791-1831, Peter Vess, with a Fletcher family, appear to be in dispute with a Copley family.

These records appear to be “continuance” notes. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to find the original entry about what the dispute may have been about nor an entry about it’s resolution. I also cannot make out the last entry above. Others listed above, do have recorded resolutions. Either I missed it, due to the handwriting or the dispute was dismissed entirely and not worth recording.

Land Transfer 1793

Below is the deed transfer between Peter Vess and John Dunkin (Duncan) to John Spencer in 1793.
The transcribed typed document, Patrick County deeds 1791-1801, mentions Peter’s wife, but Peter’s wife is not mentioned here.

Other Interesting Records: 1794

In 1794, we can probably safely assume that Peter Vess had left Patrick County, VA; however, there are a couple of records I think are pretty interesting.

Below, we see that Charles Vest, father of William Tunwell Vest, was in Patrick County, VA in 1794.
Is this proof that Peter Vess belongs to the Charles Vest family (Haplogroup I)?

Not necessarily, largely because Charles Vest, per other court records, tells us he traveled a lot. He was a manufacturer (builder) by occupation and he often traveled to other counties putting in building bids. An interesting account is via a record in Guilford County, NC where he put in a bid to rebuild the Guilford Court house (after it was destroyed by a battle); however, he “walked out” and never came back. Due to his absence, the bid was granted to another bidder.


Another record I found interesting, looks to be like a record for a John Gosnell. It would be interesting if the Gosnell family was also in Patrick County, VA at the same time as Peter and William Vess, as that may further support a connection between Nathaniel Vess and Peter Vess. The Whitlock family is also in Patrick County, VA.


Feel free to comment below!

Connection, Connection, Where Is The Connection?

/ J. L.

If there is one thing in Vess Genealogy that bothers me the most, it is the close genetic connection between Peter and Willis Vess. I mean, how are they so closely related?

A number of descendants of Willis Vess show as DNA matches on my Autosomal DNA test, which means there is an early connection somewhere between 6-8 generations back. For me, my 3rd great-grandfather, Andrew Logan Vess, would be the 6th generation. Is Willis Vess the brother of Peter Vess?

Andrew Logan Vess


Before we found out that Peter and Willis Vess were part of the same Vess family (via Y-DNA), I figured I must be connected to Willis Vess through an ancestor on my mother’s side, whose family also had deep roots in Georgia and the Carolinas. But, now I know descendants of Willis Vess also show up as DNA matches for a number of other descendants of Peter Vess.

So, where does Peter and Willis Vess fall on the Vess family tree?

Consistent Geographical Places

As research continues, we have discovered that the Vess family live in communities whose residents appear to be consistently associated with the same geographical places:

1. Enroee River, Spartanburg County, South Carolina
2. Abbeville County, South Carolina
3. Wilkes County, North Carolina
4. White County, Tennessee

You would think that mountainous terrain and dangerous confrontations with Native Americans would have hindered families from traveling large distances; however, that is far from the truth. Many early families owned and maintained land in other states; in which often required the head of household to travel back and forth for business. A lot of families were also uprooted due to wars or the expansion of the new frontier.

Connections To Abbeville County, South Carolina

What also boggles my mind, is that while we find early Vess families in communities associated with common geographical places, there still appears to be no early existence of the Vess family. Generally, one would expect to find at least 1 or 2 close relatives hanging around nearby, as families often traveled together. But in our case, it is as if Peter and Willis Vess, even Jonathan and Nathaniel Vess, seemingly appear into their community out of nowhere!

What is even more curious, is that Alfred Webb Vess, son of Peter Vess, settled in Georgia (prior to the Civil War), while the rest of the Vess family pretty much stayed in North Carolina. Why did he move out of state?

Alfred Webb Vess

It is interesting to note, that he left North Carolina in the early 1850’s, which may have been after the death of his mother, Catherine. In 1860, the entire Rutherford County, N.C. Vess family is shown having had split their ways, with the youngest of Peter and Catherine’s children shown to be living with another family (largely suggesting Catherine had died).

I have yet to figure out why the youngest children of Peter and Catherine went to live with a man named Dempsey Sumner in Buncombe County, NC. I have not found any evidence suggesting any kind of family connection between them. However, I do have reason to believe, Sumner may have given Jasper an apprenticeship, for that Jasper later acquired some of him land. [Note: Indentured servant contracts were still going on prior to the Civil War.]

Alfred Webb Vess married Mary Elizabeth McFarlin, daughter of Benjamin McFarlin and Nancy Stone. They married in 1853, in Franklin County, Georgia, not too far from Mary’s roots in Abbeville County, South Carolina.

Is that a clue that the Vess family also had early roots in Abbeville County, South Carolina, as other research suggests? Was there Vess family in Abbeville County, SC that Alfred went to after Catherine’s death?

Franklin County, Georgia- Abbeville County, South Carolina

This intrigues me, because many residents in Franklin County, Alabama also have earlier connections with Abbeville County, SC. Jonathan Vess of Texas also appears to have connections with Abbeville County, SC, through the families his children married (like McBee and McCullough families). In addition, James Heron (from Patrick County, VA) also owns land in Abbeville County, South Carolina and do not even get me started on the bulk of Travis families who descend from Cork, Ireland also living in Abbeville County, SC, with one of them becoming an important part of early Texas history [William B. Travis: The Battle of the Alamo].

Exploring The TRAVESS Name

Earlier this week, I’ve started to explore the TRAVESS name. I find it interesting that this name is found in Caroline County, Maryland. Although Y-DNA tells us there is no recent connection between the Vess family and the Travers family of Dorchester, Maryland (next to Caroline County); that doesn’t mean, a different Travers family (perhaps with a similar name) wasn’t ever in Maryland. The TRAVESS name, is interestingly, a name that can also be found in both England and Ireland, particularly in Lancashire, England and Donegal (not Cork), Ireland.

Unfortunately, there is no DNA evidence (as of yet) suggesting a connection with any early TRAVESS families (not even sure if TRAVESS is even related to TRAVERS); however, it is a name variant (along with TRAVIS) that we might want to take in consideration when exploring these earlier common geographical places; as it is abundantly clear that our family’s mysterious tracks throughout early Colonial America are hidden behind a different surname.













William Vess and The Great Western Land Pirate

/ J. L. / 1 Comment

Originally Published September 27, 2021 • Updated February 24, 2024 • Updated August 26, 2026

As you may know, I have been investigating a family story about an “outlaw” that the Vess family was supposedly involved with at one time. Thus far, I’ve explored possible connections with the outlaw, Lewis Redmond, who was “loved and respected” by the residents of the Dark Corners of South Carolina; however, there is no evidence of a direct connection with the Vess family. I’ve also explored a genetic allied-family connection with John “Redhead” Hodge; yet, there is no evidence suggesting he was an outlaw.

Perhaps, the Vess family has nothing to do with an outlaw (or particularly one with “red hair”), or perhaps I’ve been looking in the wrong place…

I’ve been exploring a series of newspaper articles (1835) that frequently mentioned the name “Vess.” The articles appear to be a continuing narrative of true events; however, without starting with the very first article, it is very difficult to tell who this “Vess” person is, in which, these articles are talking about; so I began to dig around…

John Andrew Murrell- The Great Western Land Pirate

After much research, I discovered that these newspaper articles are about the notorious outlaw, John Andrew Murrell.

John Andrew Murrell, according to family history sites, is strongly believed to have been just a horse thief whose notorious reputation as a legendary dangerous outlaw was the result of fabricated stories by Virgil A. Stewart and others.

Published Stories By Virgil A. Stewart

In 1835, Virgil A. Stewart wrote an “inflammatory pamphlet” under the name, Augustus Q. Walton called, “A History of the Detection, Conviction, Life, and Designs of John A. Murel, the great Western Land Pirate; together with his system of villainy, and plan of exciting a Negro Rebellion,” that was later published in a series of articles (under his real name) in numerous newspapers across the United States. It was supposedly his own personal detailed account on how he captured and exposed the Great Western Land Pirate, John A. Murrell.

In Stewart’s narrative, he often mentions his experiences dealing with Matthew Clanton and William Vess; in which he accuses them of damaging his reputation. In one article, he tells a story on how the Vess family tried to poison him and take his land.

I recommend reading, “The History of Virgil A. Stewart and his Adventure in Capturing and Exposing the Great Western Land Pirate and his Gang…,” compiled by H.R. Howard; a publication that includes the entire narrative that was published in the newspapers. [Pages 129-156, is the story about the Vess family.]

Virgil A. Stewart came to the Choctaw Purchase (today known as Grenada County, Mississippi) for prospects of land. According to H.R. Howard, Virgil was employed by Matthew Clanton, who owned a store, and was recommended to board with the Vess family, who were close friends of Matthew Clanton. The publication implies that Mathew Clanton and William Vess were “associates” of John Andrew Murrell.

Later, by a petition of neighbors, Mathew Clanton’s side of the story was published, refuting the accusations against him and the Vess family that Stewart wrote about in his narrative. According to numerous websites, historians believe Virgil A. Stewart’s narrative was “overly-exagerated” and “fictitious.”

William Vess – Disappeared Into the Swamp

Genealogical records confirm that both William Vess and Matthew Clanton were real people.
There are land records for Matthew Clanton and William Vess (wife Ann) between 1835-1840 in Mississippi.

According to Holcomb.org, the area in which the above events took place, known as Tuscahoma (Choctaw Purchase), no longer exists. Therefore, any early records pertaining to the residents living in the areas that was once part of the Choctaw Purchase are likely scattered among several different counties (Grenada, Yalobusha, Tallahatchie, etc).

William Vess can be found on the 1840 census record in Yalobusha, Mississippi, showing just him and his wife, Ann. In 1850, in Tallahatchie, Mississippi, Ann Vess is shown living with a young Martha A. Worsley (age 11), but no William Vess.

In the 1850 Probate records for Tallahatchie, Mississippi, Ann “Vest” petitioned for and was granted letters of administration, allowing her to settle her husband’s estate (William R. “Vest”), who did not have a will.

She explains that her husband disappeared in September of 1849. He left without telling her where he was going. She heard from him 10 days later, that he was in the “swamp west,” and hadn’t heard from him since. She believes he may have “perished in the swamp.”

In the Tallahatchie Executors Bonds, (dated 1850) Ann “Vess” is named the Admin of Wm R. “Vess” (deceased).

It appears that William and Ann Vess didn’t have any children, and she sought to protect her right to keep his land.

But, what is this “swamp west” Ann mentioned in the probate record?

In 1849, Congress passed the Swamp Land Act, where local governments can sell land in the swamp areas. At this time, it only applied to Louisiana, however, Mississippi residents ventured off into the western Mississippi Delta swamps early, anticipating that the Swamp Land Act would expand to Mississippi.

William Vess most likely set out to the swamps to make an early claim on land; which he probably didn’t tell anyone about, as it wasn’t legal yet.

However, the western Mississippi Delta swamps were notoriously dangerous, with floods, disease, and outlaws. A lot of prospectors died venturing off into the swamps.

Because he has a recent past tangled up with the John A. Murrell conspiracy, one can’t help but wonder, if he had intentionally disappeared into the swamp (as some often did) to start a new life, or meet up with the remaining “land pirates” who hid there.

We’ll likely never know.



William R. Vess – Connection To Pryor and William Vess

I am curious though, if William R. Vess could also be or related to William Vess in White County, Tennessee (brother of Pryor Vess). Only because it sounds like a Pryor and William Vess kind of adventure…

Pyror and William Vess are documented trouble makers, from Virginia all the way down into Tennessee. Interestingly, William Vess disappears from record after Pryor Vess died in jail in 1831 (Warren County, TN). AND, William R. Vess, doesn’t appear in Mississippi until 1835. Hmmmm.

Also, there is a young William R. Vess living with the Dodson family in 1850 (not sure who he belongs to); could he be related to William R. Vess in Mississippi??

Could William R. Vess in Mississippi be related to our R1a2 Vess family. I mean, the story must of come from somewhere, right?

According to FindAGrave.com, it mentions John A. Murrell having “curling auburn hair,” and he was an outlaw, an outlaw that had “followers,” rather than actual “gangs,” and he was named in a conspiracy involving a “Vess.”

Maybe it’s just a coincidence or perhaps, this widespread publication influenced a Vess family story about a red-headed outlaw the Vess family followed and adored. It certainly makes one wonder though…

John Red-Head Hodge: Exploring O’Donnell Vess

/ J. L.

The Vess family came over to America with an O’Donnell and O’Neill. O’Neill was an outlaw, wanted by the English Crown. He changed his name to Mac Hugh or something referring to his red hair. The Vess family loved and respected him.

Descendant of David Andrew Vess

The O’Donnell Vess


On Ancestry.com, many family trees show the father of Peter Vess as O’Donnell Vess from Tyrone County, Ireland.

I had the opportunity to meet a descendant of David Andrew Vess who kindly shared with me the story of O’Donnell Vess, stating it to be a very important family story.

I’ve researched the O’Donnell-Vess connection extensively, but found no genealogical records to support a connection. So, who was this Mac Hugh our family so highly respected?

I did; however, discovered a true historical event regarding an O’Donnell and O’Neill family during the 16th century in Ulster, Northern Ireland.

“Red Hugh O’Donnell” is a real person from Donegal Ireland who was rivals against the O’Neill family from Tyrone, Ireland. Red Hugh was in-prisoned by an English Lord in Dublin Castle, but later escaped with the help of the O’Neill family. Unfortunately, neither of them came to America; however, this is a well known Irish story that Irish settlers would have most certainly brought to the new world. But why was this story so important us?

O’Donnell – O’Neill families fought a Nine Year War in Ireland together and is a very important part of Ireland history.

Because the O’Donnell and O’Neill family did not seem to have connections with America or any direct connections with the Vess family (that I can tell), I began searching for American outlaws. Perhaps, the family story was a mix of different people and events?

Interestingly, during the time of David Andrew Vess, there was a notorious American outlaw who was highly respected by the residents in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. The Dark Corners included Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina where the Bellew and Gosnell families were well established; and David Andrew Vess married Magnolia Gosnell. The outlaws name was Lewis Redmond.

Again, I was unable to find a direct connection with the Vess family. Perhaps the family story…is just a story.


The Mysterious Hodge-Vess Connection


The story of the man named after his red-hair that the Vess family highly respected was something I forgot about until just recently, when I stumbled upon John “Red Head” Hodge.

The HODGE (HOGE) name has come up in discussion several times over the past year between me and the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, but we just don’t know how they fit into Vess Genealogy.

The Willis and Peter Vess lines appear to match closely with a HODGE family, but their connection is unknown.

Vincent Vess, who had researched the Hodge family much more extensively than I, had pointed out that there is a Hodge family living near the Vess family in White County, Tennessee.

Further research reveals that this Hodge family comes from Franklin County, Virginia (once part of Patrick-County, VA). I discovered that Robert Hodge, father of Abner Hodge (above) was living in a place called Chestnut Creek, about 30 miles away from William Vess/Voss & Peter Vess on Koger Creek in Patrick County, VA!


According to information provided to me from the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, we match closely with the descendants of Isham Hodge, Abner’s brother. However, we have yet to discover a connection.

Supposedly, Isham and Abner Hodge have a brother whose name is John “Red Head” Hodge. Is this the man named for his red hair that the Vess family highly respected???

John “Red Head” Hodge- Research In Progress


I’m still researching John “Red Head” Hodge.

There are numerous John Hodges (of course, with a name like John), but right now, my focus is on two of them:

The first one that caught my attention is a John “Red Head” Hodge , brother of Isham Hodge, who supposedly married Lucy Elizabeth Dalton, daughter of David Dalton Sr. of Rutherford County, NC.

Lucy Elizabeth Dalton is the sister of Nancy (Sally) Dalton, grandmother of Lucy Malinda Linnia Halford, wife of Andrew Logan Vess! However, other family trees, state she married Reuben Searcy instead (perhaps she married both). So, who is this Lucea Dalton and John Hodges in Franklin County, VA and is this John, in fact, John “Red Head” Hodge?

I mean, it would make sense considering the Vess and Dalton families have known each other for what seems like forever!

There is another John Hodge that some on Ancestry refer to as “Red Head” Hodge, but he resides in Abbeville, South Carolina and married Frances Anderson. According to other genealogy websites that provide more ancestral history, he was known as “Major” Hodge, for having served in the Revolutionary War. I am not sure if he is actually “Red Head” Hodge, but his presence in Abbeville is intriguing.

I wish I had more to share, but at this time, I am still researching.























Charles Travers: A Link To Peter, Willis, and Nathan VESS??

/ J. L. / 2 Comments

We’ve been at a frustrating genealogical brick-wall for so long, that the brain is desperately looking for any kind of connection, even if it is not supported by evidence or lacks logical sense.

For instance, as I am still rooting for a Vess-Travers split in America, I came across this article about a Charles Travis/ Travers in Anson County, NC who supposedly (not confirmed) had brothers named John and James. Immediately, my thoughts raced back to different versions of our family story that referred to the three brothers as “Charles” Peter Vess, Jonathan Vess, and “James” Nathaniel Vess.” Desperate for connections can lead to wasted time and more dead ends; however, something extremely intriguing in the online article of Charles Travis/Travers caught my immediate attention which led me to some interesting new discoveries!!

Friendly Reminder:
The opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.

Brief Summary of Charles Travis/Travers

According to the online article, Genealogy Report: Descendants of Charles Travis/Travers, Charles Travers was born between 1745-50 in North Carolina, he married Elizabeth HARRIS in Granville, North Carolina (abt 1770), and together had 7 children. Although it states he died in Illinois, research strongly suggests that Charles Travers may have stayed in Anson County, North Carolina (later to become Montgomery County, NC) and that it was his sons who moved out of state.

This source states that Charles Travers maybe a descendant of Dr. Edward Travers from Cork, Ireland; however, there hasn’t been any solid genealogical evidence to prove it, despite Dr. Edward Travers having a grandson named “Charles,” per his son’s Will. It is also noted that Charles had a brother named John and James, which I believe, if they are related to Dr. Edward Travers, John maybe the Travers family in Edgefield, South Carolina. Further researcher is needed to confirm a connection.

1790 Census Record : David Benson

Our Vess family has a couple of connections with the Gosnell and Bellew families of South Carolina. Early connections that we know of is with Nathaniel Vess who married Clarinda Bellew, a descendant of both the Bellew and Gosnell families. Another early connection, one on Peter’s line, is with David Andrew Vess, who married Magnolia Gosnell, whose 2nd great aunt is Clarinda Vess (Nathan’s wife).

Magnolia Gosnell’s family appears to be from Madison County, North Carolina with her father having been born in Greenville County, South Carolina, descendant of Charles Gosnell Jr. and Lucy Pruitt. I do not know where David Andrew Vess (from McDowell County, North Carolina) met Magnolia Gosnell (from Madison County, North Carolina), but research suggests the Vess and Gosnell families may have more history together than we originally thought, perhaps as long time friends or neighbors.

According to the online article, Genealogy Report: Descendants of Charles Travis/Travers, there is a name that caught my immediate attention: David Benson!

I’ve seen this name before countless times, but with not much of a clue as to whether it meant anything. But now, lets look back at the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina: Joshua Gosnell, Abraham Belue (Bellew) and there listed below them is a David Benson.

So, how does David Benson connection to Charles Travers??

Well, according to the online article about Charles Travers, the daughter of David Benson (Nancy Benson) married the son of Charles Travers (Thomas Travers). They were married in 1811, in Kentucky with Nancy being much younger than Thomas, which may suggest that Thomas had children prior to his marriage to Nancy.

With that discovery, I was able to research a little more on David Benson…
David Benson married Elizabeth Pruitt (Pruette) who was born in South Carolina (1775). I wonder if she is related to Lucy Pruitt, wife of Charles Gosnell Jr, born of the Pruitt family in Spartanburg County, SC whose family has connections with the Pool, Hembree, and Bellew families in the Tyger River community???

According to the North Carolina Land Grants and Deeds website, David Benson was issued land (1795) on the branch of Webbs Creek in Rutherford County, North Carolina. Is this the same David Benson? The Webb family on Webbs Creek consisted of John, William, Elias, and Robert Webb and there is also a Lewis Bailey family. Webbs Creek branches off the Second Broad River (eastward). Cathey’s Creek also branches off the Second Broad River (westward), and west of the Second Broad River is the Bill’s Creek community. Is there a connection? I do not know yet, but perhaps it is worth noting.

Connection to Willis Vess: Montgomery County, NC

Charles Travers appears in 1790 Montgomery County, NC census record. Interestingly, we also find a very large Suggs family, specifically, a “Harbert Suggs.” So, where have I seen the name Suggs before??

Going back to the Franklin County, Alabama plat map to look at the Foxtrap area where, according to Anna Popejoy, the father of Willis Vess (John Vess) settled sometime between 1818-1820, you can find “Harbert Sugg” not too far away. Further research tells us Harbert obtained land from Huntsville (likely for Franklin, AL) as early as 1831. Also, several Sugg family sources state the Suggs family in Franklin County, Alabama did come from Montgomery County, North Carolina. Harbert Sugg’s mortality record, even states he was born in North Carolina.

Connection to Nathan Vess: Abraham Belyeu / Bellew in Anson County, NC

We know there was an Abraham Bellew in Anson County, NC (1790 census) , but we do not know if he is related to the Abraham Bellew on the 1790 South Carolina census listed next to Joshua Gosnell and David Benson. Perhaps the South Carolina Bellew is Abraham Bellew “Jr.”?? Further research is needed, but if David Benson is the David Benson mentioned in the article about Charles Travers, perhaps there is a connection.

While looking up the Suggs family, I came across Abraham Belyeu. According to an article on Thomas Sugg , written by Wynona Maxey (2008), Robert Sugg and Abraham Belyeu are witnesses on a land deed on Pee Dee River. This doesn’t exactly connect to Charles Travers, but it is worth investigating, considering Charles Travers supposedly lived on or near the Pee Dee River.

Connection To Peter Vess: Harris – Ledbetter Family

Helen M. Lu’s book, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, provides us great insight into the generation of Andrew Logan Vess and his brothers; however, just barely gives us a glimpse into Peter’s generation. According to Helen M. Lu, church records prior to 1827 have been lost and only one page in her book gives us an idea on who where early members of the church between 1827-1830 (Lu pg. 115).

Many of these names are well known: Whiteside, Vess, Dalton, Bagwell, Hill, Ledbetter, and Green; however, Harris is one that I do not recognize.

According to the article on Charles Travers, Charles Travers married Elizabeth Harris. The article also mentions that the Travers family were close to a “West” Harris family. A quick research reveals there was a Col. West Harris Jr. (Montgomery Co, NC) who married Edith Ledbetter, daughter of Charles and Frances Ledbetter. It will take some time to research the connection between the Ledbetter family in Anson County and the Ledbetter family in Rutherford County, but I bet they are related (even if distantly).

Going back to the complied list of early Bill’s Creek Baptist Church members [above], I see an unidentified Harris family. Looking up “Archibald Harris” only gives me information on an Archibald Harris in Anson County, NC (interesting), but I haven’t found an Archibald Harris in Rutherford County, NC, nor have I been able to find anything on the other listed Harris members.

A New Lead or Just Wishful Thinking

IF we did split directly from the TRAVERS family in America, perhaps it was with the Travers family in Montgomery County, North Carolina. AND IF, (A HUGE IF) we are related to the Travers family in Montgomery County, North Carolina, perhaps this explains Peter and Willis Vess having been born in North Carolina and Nathan Vess born in South Carolina; especially, if Nathan was a cousin rather than a brother.

Perhaps the Vess family was in Anson / Montgomery County and one of the Vess brothers (father of Nathan Vess) travelled with the Bellew family to South Carolina, which is where Nathan was supposedly born. The other Vess brother (father of Peter and Willis Vess), possibly named John, moved to Alabama with the Willis and Suggs families prior to 1830.

What about the promising Vice family? What about the VESS/VOSS/VEST families in Patrick, Rockbridge, and Augusta County in Virginia. What about the Voss family in Casewell County?

Well, maybe there is a connection with them too; families weren’t technically small back then. It is unlikely Peter, Willis and Nathan Vess are the only relatives of their generation. I mean, it wasn’t until just recently that we discovered that Peter and Willis Vess, not only are genetically related (same family line), but closely related!

Also, I just learned that the Pettit family traveled through Augusta County, Virginia on their way to South Carolina. Apparently, according to one source, the western part of Virginia was just giving away South Carolina land grants.

When it comes to Vess genealogy, there are always new leads and that is what makes Vess genealogy so frustrating.

Sources
Lu, Helen M. Bill’s Creek Baptist Church Two Hundred Year History 1782–1982. United States, United States, 1984.

“Descendants of Charles Travis/Travers.” Genealogy.Com, http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/h/o/l/Judith-A-Holmes-Tempe/GENE1-0001.html. Accessed 21 July 2021.

Maxey, Wynona. “Sugg, Thomas (1690–1753).” Genealogy.Com, 27 May 2008, http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/sugg/331.








































John Vice: The Missing Link To Vess Genealogy?

/ J. L.

Although the VESS/VEST family of Patrick County, Virginia (1790-1801) are extremely intriguing and seem like a promising connection, I am drawn back to the Dark Corners of South Carolina. I decided to take another look at Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess. Looking at all my research, I have come to realize that the early families surrounding them, all came from South Carolina.

Peter: Pettit and Toney families.
Willis: Nichols, Willis, Askews, Whitlock families (many more)
Nathan: Bellew and Gosnell families

Of course, these families all have different origin-origins, like the Pettit family come from New Jersey, the Gosnell family come from Maryland, and the Nichols, Willis, Askews (Eskews) and Whitlock families come from Virginia; but all of them, just before they appear with our earliest known Vess ancestors (Peter, Willis, and Nathan) … were all in South Carolina; more specifically, the Tyger River area.

Tyger River Area: South Carolina’s Complicated Borders

The western portion of South Carolina has a complicated history with very messy borders, making it a nightmare to find family records. For instance, between 1769-1779, Tryon County, North Carolina and the Ninety-Six District in South Carolina overlap. Some residents in this area were issued land from the State of North Carolina while others were issued land from the state of South Carolina.

The Vice Family

I’ve looked for families with similar surnames to VESS in South Carolina a zillion times, but apparently, I overlooked the VICE family.

On the 1810 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I found a John Vice next to Nancy Poole. Nancy Poole reminds me of Nancy Pool, sister of Mary Ann Pool, who married Henry Pettit Sr (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess).

So, I searched the name “John Vice” in the South Carolina Digital Archives.
One record of interest is a land record dated 1824 for Benjamin Nicholls on Thomsons Branch along the Tyger River. It includes familiar families such as Duncan, Moore, Nicholls, Pettit, and Willis.

Clearly intrigued, I began to research further…

Many early families are well documented by family historians and generally, with a few odd-ball keywords, a good chunk of their history can be found via Google. I was fortunate to find information pertaining to the VICE family on a Turley Family website.

Who Is John Vice

Land records show that the Vice family has been in the Tyger River community as early as 1782 and numerous sources say some members of the Vice family moved to Benton (now Calhoun) county, Alabama.

Research tells us that John Vice was born in Orange County, Virginia about 1755 and died in Spartanburg County, South Carolina in 1833. He is the son of Nathaniel Camp Vice (1730-1802) of Frederick County, Virginia.

Nathaniel Camp Vice is supposedly the son of Robert or John VESSEY of Frederick County, Virginia; however, the origins of VESSEY are not clear. Nathaniel Camp Vice migrated south and settled in Campbell County, Kentucky with many of his descendants rooting in Bath County, Kentucky.

Nathaniel’s son, John Vice (some note his name as John William Vice), married Frances Roebuck in 1773 in Chatham County, North Carolina, before settling in Spartanburg County, South Carolina. According to the Turley Family website, they had 10 children:

John Roebuck Vise abt. 1774

Nathaniel Vise abt. 1774 and married Dorcas MEADERS. (Meadows?)

Rhoda Vise abt. 1776 and married Peter LAWRENCE.

Levi Vise abt. 1778

George Vise  abt. 1780 and married Elizabeth WALKER.

Reuben Vise  1782

Eliphous Hosea “Eli” Vise abt. 1785 and married Rebecca MEADERS. (Meadows?)

Elizabeth Vise 1787 in Spartanburg , SC and married Thomas WRIGHT.

Azariah “Zery” Vise  abt. 1790

Jeremiah “Jere” Vise about 1790

Abner Vise about 1792 and married Lucinda PREWITT.

Jemima Vise about 1792

A Tyger River Baptist Church Connection


The Turley family website states: “John Vise and Frances Roebuck Vise were members of the Tyger River Baptist Church, also called Friendship Church. On the membership roll for 1801-1803…” 

This is an incredible find, for that the Tyger River Baptist Church was part of the same church association as Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. We also know that the Pettit family were also members of the Tyger River Baptist Church.

According to history.ky.gov, the location of the Tyger River Baptist Church is unknown however is said to have been located in the northern portion of Greenville County, close to the North Carolina border. This would ideally put the church very close to the Glassy Mountain community and the communities along the Pacelot River (North and South Carolina border in modern day Polk County) where we find many early families from Tryon County (like the Logan family).

I bet there are a lot of interesting families listed as members on the Tyger River Baptist Church Membership Rolls; unfortunately, these records do not appear to be available online nor are they physically available near me.

Census Records: Spartanburg County, South Carolina

On the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families:
1. Boston Best
2. Henry Pattit (Pettit)
3. Joshua Pattit (Pettit)
4. John Wice (Vice)

A few pages over, you will find the following families:
1. Abraham Belue (Bellew)
2. Joshua Gosnell

*The Bise families on the 1790 census might actually be part of the Vise family.

On the 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families interestingly close together:
Nat Vice (Nathaniel Vice, John Vice son)
John Willis
Richard Willis (find him on land records with Vice family)


DNA Connections

Autosomal DNA Results
For me, many of the names on the VICE family tree frequently show up in my DNA relatives list, especially via the Turley, McPherson, and White families.

Even more interestingly, I have a long list of distant DNA relatives with family trees showing them as descendants of the VICE family and not just through one VICE family line, but numerous VICE family lines. Most are via John and Nathaniel Vice (sons of John and France Roebuck Vice of South Carolina) and others are from several different descending lines (sons and daughters) from Nathaniel Camp Vice in Kentucky. And, to make it even more interesting, they share DNA relatives with DNA relatives who are descendants on the Willis Vess line.

Pettit – Vice Connection
The granddaughter of John Vice married Benjamin Pettit who is related to Henry Pettit Sr. (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess) through Joshua Pettit.

John Vice and Henry Pettit have a common neighbor: Andrew Thomson. *Correction: Andrew Thomson maybe the surveyor.
1. 1784 land record: Pacelot River / Ninety-six District Henry Pettit, William Pool, and Andrew Thomson
2. 1786 land record: Tyger River / Ninety-six District John Vise, Andrew Thomson, John Oshields, Joel Hembree, David Grimes, John Butler *Pettit and Hembree families are related.

The Next Chapter: Vice Family

I am really excited about discovering the Vice family! Not only do they have a similar surname to VESS, but they are also in the right place at the right time, surrounded by many familiar families that connect with Peter, Willis, and Nathan!

Also, because the Vice family is supposedly from Frederick County, Virginia, there is still a chance for a possible connection with the Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia!

So, I am extremely excited!! This could be our family’s missing link OR I am embarking upon another goose-chase!












Vess Family DNA Project

/ J. L. / 2 Comments

I am extremely excited to announce that we have been given the opportunity to start a VESS FAMILY DNA PROJECT!

A huge thanks to Marilyn Barton, for allowing us to revive her Vess Family DNA project on Familytreedna.com and also, a huge thanks to Michael Travers and Vincent Vess for managing it for us!

How To Join?

To join and participate, you must have an account with Familytreedna.com.

If you sign up for an account on their homepage, you will be required to buy a DNA kit. However, anyone who has already completed an autosomal test through 23andMe© or AncestryDNA™ or MyHeritage™ can sign up for an account for free by transferring their results to Familytreedna.com.

Click here to get started!
Note: You must download your Raw DNA data first (see directions below).

Downloading Raw Data File To Transfer To Familytreedna.com

Ancestry.com

23&Me.com
Visit you.23andme.com/tools/data/, which should take you directly to the Raw Data Download Page after signing into your account.


MyHeritage.com

Click on this link for step-by-step instructions from yourdnaguide.com.

How Long Does The Transfer Process Take

Familytreedna.com states it takes 3-5 business days to process, but some reviews state it could be as quick as a few hours; it all depends on how many transfers they have to process (it’s a queue system).

However, you can join the Vess Family DNA Project and explore public Haplotrees while you wait for your results to process.

$19 To Access Additional Tools

It is my understanding that a free account opened by transferring DNA results from another vendor, allows you access to FamilyFinder and DNA Projects. However, one must pay $19 to unlock additional tools such as the Chromosome Browser, MyOrigins, and AncientOrigins.

Which isn’t that bad, considering you’re not having to buy an expensive DNA kit again or pay any kind of subscription to continue to access information.

Who Can Participate?

Any member of Familytreedna.com can join the Vess Family DNA Project! It is my understanding that this DNA project is not restricted to any specific type of testers and thus, all DNA tests are able to provide valuable information to the project.

  • Information provided by Autosomal DNA testers (both genders) allow us to make new family connections.
  • Information provided by mtDNA testers allow us to explore maternal roots.
  • Information provided by Y-DNA testers allow us to identify and connect different VESS/ VOSS/VASS/ VEST family lines.
  • Information provided by Big-Y testers allow us to further investigate and unravel the mystery between the Vess and Travers families.

The more participants, the more DNA information we can obtain and analyze, and then the more connections we can make!

Transferring Y-DNA Test Results

If you have already done a Y-DNA test through a different company that used the Sorenson 33 or 46-marker test, you can transfer your results to Familytreedna.com to participate in the Y-DNA portion of the Vess Family DNA Project.

For more information on how to do it, please visit this link: Y-DNA Transfer From Another Company

DNA DAY: Tests On Sale
Now through April 26th

Please visit the Familytreedna.com for accurate pricing and more details.


Disclosure: There are no affiliated links in this post.