The good stuff is often found in unindexed microfilmed records that force us to skim through each individual record hoping to come across a familiar family name. Oddly, as a genealogist, the one thing I hate to do is read…
It’s not that I don’t know how to read or I struggle to read, I just don’t have time to read. I am a kind of person that reads the summary on the back of books and waits for the movie (except Harry Potter- I read those books).
I’ve come to a point in my research, where I think I’ve pretty much found as much as I could about the VESS family via Indexed records. You know, type in a few keywords and Whola! Desired records appears like magic! Only just recently have I started to make time, with a few cups of coffee, to scour thousands of microfilmed records.
I must admit, once the brain adjusts to deciphering Old English, local history bursts into life!
These records appear to be “continuance” notes. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to find the original entry about what the dispute may have been about nor an entry about it’s resolution. I also cannot make out the last entry above. Others listed above, do have recorded resolutions. Either I missed it, due to the handwriting or the dispute was dismissed entirely and not worth recording.
Land Transfer 1793
Below is the deed transfer between Peter Vess and John Dunkin (Duncan) to John Spencer in 1793. The transcribed typed document, Patrick County deeds 1791-1801, mentions Peter’s wife, but Peter’s wife is not mentioned here.
Other Interesting Records: 1794
In 1794, we can probably safely assume that Peter Vess had left Patrick County, VA; however, there are a couple of records I think are pretty interesting.
Below, we see that Charles Vest, father of William Tunwell Vest, was in Patrick County, VA in 1794. Is this proof that Peter Vess belongs to the Charles Vest family (Haplogroup I)?
Not necessarily, largely because Charles Vest, per other court records, tells us he traveled a lot. He was a manufacturer (builder) by occupation and he often traveled to other counties putting in building bids. An interesting account is via a record in Guilford County, NC where he put in a bid to rebuild the Guilford Court house (after it was destroyed by a battle); however, he “walked out” and never came back. Due to his absence, the bid was granted to another bidder.
Another record I found interesting, looks to be like a record for a John Gosnell. It would be interesting if the Gosnell family was also in Patrick County, VA at the same time as Peter and William Vess, as that may further support a connection between Nathaniel Vess and Peter Vess. The Whitlock family is also in Patrick County, VA.
If there is one thing in Vess Genealogy that bothers me the most, it is the close genetic connection between Peter and Willis Vess. I mean, how are they so closely related?
A number of descendants of Willis Vess show as DNA matches on my Autosomal DNA test, which means there is an early connection somewhere between 6-8 generations back. For me, my 3rd great-grandfather, Andrew Logan Vess, would be the 6th generation. Is Willis Vess the brother of Peter Vess?
Andrew Logan Vess
Before we found out that Peter and Willis Vess were part of the same Vess family (via Y-DNA), I figured I must be connected to Willis Vess through an ancestor on my mother’s side, whose family also had deep roots in Georgia and the Carolinas. But, now I know descendants of Willis Vess also show up as DNA matches for a number of other descendants of Peter Vess.
So, where does Peter and Willis Vess fall on the Vess family tree?
Consistent Geographical Places
As research continues, we have discovered that the Vess family live in communities whose residents appear to be consistently associated with the same geographical places:
1. Enroee River, Spartanburg County, South Carolina 2. Abbeville County, South Carolina 3. Wilkes County, North Carolina 4. White County, Tennessee
You would think that mountainous terrain and dangerous confrontations with Native Americans would have hindered families from traveling large distances; however, that is far from the truth. Many early families owned and maintained land in other states; in which often required the head of household to travel back and forth for business. A lot of families were also uprooted due to wars or the expansion of the new frontier.
Connections To Abbeville County, South Carolina
What also boggles my mind, is that while we find early Vess families in communities associated with common geographical places, there still appears to be no early existence of the Vess family. Generally, one would expect to find at least 1 or 2 close relatives hanging around nearby, as families often traveled together. But in our case, it is as if Peter and Willis Vess, even Jonathan and Nathaniel Vess, seemingly appear into their community out of nowhere!
What is even more curious, is that Alfred Webb Vess, son of Peter Vess, settled in Georgia (prior to the Civil War), while the rest of the Vess family pretty much stayed in North Carolina. Why did he move out of state?
Alfred Webb Vess
It is interesting to note, that he left North Carolina in the early 1850’s, which may have been after the death of his mother, Catherine. In 1860, the entire Rutherford County, N.C. Vess family is shown having had split their ways, with the youngest of Peter and Catherine’s children shown to be living with another family (largely suggesting Catherine had died).
I have yet to figure out why the youngest children of Peter and Catherine went to live with a man named Dempsey Sumner in Buncombe County, NC. I have not found any evidence suggesting any kind of family connection between them. However, I do have reason to believe, Sumner may have given Jasper an apprenticeship, for that Jasper later acquired some of him land. [Note: Indentured servant contracts were still going on prior to the Civil War.]
Alfred Webb Vess married Mary Elizabeth McFarlin, daughter of Benjamin McFarlin and Nancy Stone. They married in 1853, in Franklin County, Georgia, not too far from Mary’s roots in Abbeville County, South Carolina.
Is that a clue that the Vess family also had early roots in Abbeville County, South Carolina, as other research suggests? Was there Vess family in Abbeville County, SC that Alfred went to after Catherine’s death?
Franklin County, Georgia- Abbeville County, South Carolina
This intrigues me, because many residents in Franklin County, Alabama also have earlier connections with Abbeville County, SC. Jonathan Vess of Texas also appears to have connections with Abbeville County, SC, through the families his children married (like McBee and McCullough families). In addition, James Heron (from Patrick County, VA) also owns land in Abbeville County, South Carolina and do not even get me started on the bulk of Travis families who descend from Cork, Ireland also living in Abbeville County, SC, with one of them becoming an important part of early Texas history [William B. Travis: The Battle of the Alamo].
Exploring The TRAVESS Name
Earlier this week, I’ve started to explore the TRAVESS name. I find it interesting that this name is found in Caroline County, Maryland. Although Y-DNA tells us there is no recent connection between the Vess family and the Travers family of Dorchester, Maryland (next to Caroline County); that doesn’t mean, a different Travers family (perhaps with a similar name) wasn’t ever in Maryland. The TRAVESS name, is interestingly, a name that can also be found in both England and Ireland, particularly in Lancashire, England and Donegal (not Cork), Ireland.
Unfortunately, there is no DNA evidence (as of yet) suggesting a connection with any early TRAVESS families (not even sure if TRAVESS is even related to TRAVERS); however, it is a name variant (along with TRAVIS) that we might want to take in consideration when exploring these earlier common geographical places; as it is abundantly clear that our family’s mysterious tracks throughout early Colonial America are hidden behind a different surname.
Originally Published September 27, 2021 • Updated February 24, 2024• Updated August 26, 2026
As you may know, I have been investigating a family story about an “outlaw” that the Vess family was supposedly involved with at one time. Thus far, I’ve explored possible connections with the outlaw, Lewis Redmond, who was “loved and respected” by the residents of the Dark Corners of South Carolina; however, there is no evidence of a direct connection with the Vess family. I’ve also explored a genetic allied-family connection with John “Redhead” Hodge; yet, there is no evidence suggesting he was an outlaw.
Perhaps, the Vess family has nothing to do with an outlaw (or particularly one with “red hair”), or perhaps I’ve been looking in the wrong place…
I’ve been exploring a series of newspaper articles (1835) that frequently mentioned the name “Vess.” The articles appear to be a continuing narrative of true events; however, without starting with the very first article, it is very difficult to tell who this “Vess” person is, in which, these articles are talking about; so I began to dig around…
John Andrew Murrell- The Great Western Land Pirate
After much research, I discovered that these newspaper articles are about the notorious outlaw, John Andrew Murrell.
John Andrew Murrell, according to family history sites, is strongly believed to have been just a horse thief whose notorious reputation as a legendary dangerous outlaw was the result of fabricated stories by Virgil A. Stewart and others.
In Stewart’s narrative, he often mentions his experiences dealing with Matthew Clanton and William Vess; in which he accuses them of damaging his reputation. In one article, he tells a story on how the Vess family tried to poison him and take his land.
Virgil A. Stewart came to the Choctaw Purchase (today known as Grenada County, Mississippi) for prospects of land. According to H.R. Howard, Virgil was employed by Matthew Clanton, who owned a store, and was recommended to board with the Vess family, who were close friends of Matthew Clanton. The publication implies that Mathew Clanton and William Vess were “associates” of John Andrew Murrell.
Later, by a petition of neighbors, Mathew Clanton’s side of the story was published, refuting the accusations against him and the Vess family that Stewart wrote about in his narrative. According to numerous websites, historians believe Virgil A. Stewart’s narrative was “overly-exagerated” and “fictitious.”
William Vess – Disappeared Into the Swamp
Genealogical records confirm that both William Vess and Matthew Clanton were real people. There are land records for Matthew Clanton and William Vess (wife Ann) between 1835-1840 in Mississippi.
According to Holcomb.org, the area in which the above events took place, known as Tuscahoma (Choctaw Purchase), no longer exists. Therefore, any early records pertaining to the residents living in the areas that was once part of the Choctaw Purchase are likely scattered among several different counties (Grenada, Yalobusha, Tallahatchie, etc).
William Vess can be found on the 1840 census record in Yalobusha, Mississippi, showing just him and his wife, Ann. In 1850, in Tallahatchie, Mississippi, Ann Vess is shown living with a young Martha A. Worsley (age 11), but no William Vess.
In the 1850 Probate records for Tallahatchie, Mississippi, Ann “Vest” petitioned for and was granted letters of administration, allowing her to settle her husband’s estate (William R. “Vest”), who did not have a will.
She explains that her husband disappeared in September of 1849. He left without telling her where he was going. She heard from him 10 days later, that he was in the “swamp west,” and hadn’t heard from him since. She believes he may have “perished in the swamp.”
It appears that William and Ann Vess didn’t have any children, and she sought to protect her right to keep his land.
But, what is this “swamp west” Ann mentioned in the probate record?
In 1849, Congress passed the Swamp Land Act, where local governments can sell land in the swamp areas. At this time, it only applied to Louisiana, however, Mississippi residents ventured off into the western Mississippi Delta swamps early, anticipating that the Swamp Land Act would expand to Mississippi.
William Vess most likely set out to the swamps to make an early claim on land; which he probably didn’t tell anyone about, as it wasn’t legal yet.
However, the western Mississippi Delta swamps were notoriously dangerous, with floods, disease, and outlaws. A lot of prospectors died venturing off into the swamps.
Because he has a recent past tangled up with the John A. Murrell conspiracy, one can’t help but wonder, if he had intentionally disappeared into the swamp (as some often did) to start a new life, or meet up with the remaining “land pirates” who hid there.
We’ll likely never know.
William R. Vess – Connection To Pryor and William Vess
I am curious though, if William R. Vess could also be or related to William Vess in White County, Tennessee (brother of Pryor Vess). Only because it sounds like a Pryor and William Vess kind of adventure…
Pyror and William Vess are documented trouble makers, from Virginia all the way down into Tennessee. Interestingly, William Vess disappears from record after Pryor Vess died in jail in 1831 (Warren County, TN). AND, William R. Vess, doesn’t appear in Mississippi until 1835. Hmmmm.
Also, there is a young William R. Vess living with the Dodson family in 1850 (not sure who he belongs to); could he be related to William R. Vess in Mississippi??
Could William R. Vess in Mississippi be related to our R1a2 Vess family. I mean, the story must of come from somewhere, right?
According to FindAGrave.com, it mentions John A. Murrell having “curling auburn hair,” and he was an outlaw, an outlaw that had “followers,” rather than actual “gangs,” and he was named in a conspiracy involving a “Vess.”
Maybe it’s just a coincidence or perhaps, this widespread publication influenced a Vess family story about a red-headed outlaw the Vess family followed and adored. It certainly makes one wonder though…
The Vess family came over to America with an O’Donnell and O’Neill. O’Neill was an outlaw, wanted by the English Crown. He changed his name to Mac Hugh or something referring to his red hair. The Vess family loved and respected him.
Descendant of David Andrew Vess
The O’Donnell Vess
On Ancestry.com, many family trees show the father of Peter Vess as O’Donnell Vess from Tyrone County, Ireland.
I had the opportunity to meet a descendant of David Andrew Vess who kindly shared with me the story of O’Donnell Vess, stating it to be a very important family story.
I’ve researched the O’Donnell-Vess connection extensively, but found no genealogical records to support a connection. So, who was this Mac Hugh our family so highly respected?
I did; however, discovered a true historical event regarding an O’Donnell and O’Neill family during the 16th century in Ulster, Northern Ireland.
“Red Hugh O’Donnell” is a real person from Donegal Ireland who was rivals against the O’Neill family from Tyrone, Ireland. Red Hugh was in-prisoned by an English Lord in Dublin Castle, but later escaped with the help of the O’Neill family. Unfortunately, neither of them came to America; however, this is a well known Irish story that Irish settlers would have most certainly brought to the new world. But why was this story so important us?
O’Donnell – O’Neill families fought a Nine Year War in Ireland together and is a very important part of Ireland history.
Because the O’Donnell and O’Neill family did not seem to have connections with America or any direct connections with the Vess family (that I can tell), I began searching for American outlaws. Perhaps, the family story was a mix of different people and events?
Interestingly, during the time of David Andrew Vess, there was a notorious American outlaw who was highly respected by the residents in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. The Dark Corners included Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina where the Bellew and Gosnell families were well established; and David Andrew Vess married Magnolia Gosnell. The outlaws name was Lewis Redmond.
Again, I was unable to find a direct connection with the Vess family. Perhaps the family story…is just a story.
The Mysterious Hodge-Vess Connection
The story of the man named after his red-hair that the Vess family highly respected was something I forgot about until just recently, when I stumbled upon John “Red Head” Hodge.
The HODGE (HOGE) name has come up in discussion several times over the past year between me and the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, but we just don’t know how they fit into Vess Genealogy.
The Willis and Peter Vess lines appear to match closely with a HODGE family, but their connection is unknown.
Vincent Vess, who had researched the Hodge family much more extensively than I, had pointed out that there is a Hodge family living near the Vess family in White County, Tennessee.
Further research reveals that this Hodge family comes from Franklin County, Virginia (once part of Patrick-County, VA). I discovered that Robert Hodge, father of Abner Hodge (above) was living in a place called Chestnut Creek, about 30 miles away from William Vess/Voss & Peter Vess on Koger Creek in Patrick County, VA!
According to information provided to me from the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, we match closely with the descendants of Isham Hodge, Abner’s brother. However, we have yet to discover a connection.
Supposedly, Isham and Abner Hodge have a brother whose name is John “Red Head” Hodge. Is this the man named for his red hair that the Vess family highly respected???
John “Red Head” Hodge- Research In Progress
I’m still researching John “Red Head” Hodge.
There are numerous John Hodges (of course, with a name like John), but right now, my focus is on two of them:
The first one that caught my attention is a John “Red Head” Hodge , brother of Isham Hodge, who supposedly married Lucy Elizabeth Dalton, daughter of David Dalton Sr. of Rutherford County, NC.
Lucy Elizabeth Dalton is the sister of Nancy (Sally) Dalton, grandmother of Lucy Malinda Linnia Halford, wife of Andrew Logan Vess! However, other family trees, state she married Reuben Searcy instead (perhaps she married both). So, who is this Lucea Dalton and John Hodges in Franklin County, VA and is this John, in fact, John “Red Head” Hodge?
I mean, it would make sense considering the Vess and Dalton families have known each other for what seems like forever!
There is another John Hodge that some on Ancestry refer to as “Red Head” Hodge, but he resides in Abbeville, South Carolina and married Frances Anderson. According to other genealogy websites that provide more ancestral history, he was known as “Major” Hodge, for having served in the Revolutionary War. I am not sure if he is actually “Red Head” Hodge, but his presence in Abbeville is intriguing.
I wish I had more to share, but at this time, I am still researching.
We’ve been at a frustrating genealogical brick-wall for so long, that the brain is desperately looking for any kind of connection, even if it is not supported by evidence or lacks logical sense.
For instance, as I am still rooting for a Vess-Travers split in America, I came across this article about a Charles Travis/ Travers in Anson County, NC who supposedly (not confirmed) had brothers named John and James. Immediately, my thoughts raced back to different versions of our family story that referred to the three brothers as “Charles” Peter Vess, Jonathan Vess, and “James” Nathaniel Vess.” Desperate for connections can lead to wasted time and more dead ends; however, something extremely intriguing in the online article of Charles Travis/Travers caught my immediate attention which led me to some interesting new discoveries!!
Friendly Reminder: The opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.
Brief Summary of Charles Travis/Travers
According to the online article, Genealogy Report: Descendants of Charles Travis/Travers, Charles Travers was born between 1745-50 in North Carolina, he married Elizabeth HARRIS in Granville, North Carolina (abt 1770), and together had 7 children. Although it states he died in Illinois, research strongly suggests that Charles Travers may have stayed in Anson County, North Carolina (later to become Montgomery County, NC) and that it was his sons who moved out of state.
This source states that Charles Travers maybe a descendant of Dr. Edward Travers from Cork, Ireland; however, there hasn’t been any solid genealogical evidence to prove it, despite Dr. Edward Travers having a grandson named “Charles,” per his son’s Will. It is also noted that Charles had a brother named John and James, which I believe, if they are related to Dr. Edward Travers, John maybe the Travers family in Edgefield, South Carolina. Further researcher is needed to confirm a connection.
1790 Census Record : David Benson
Our Vess family has a couple of connections with the Gosnell and Bellew families of South Carolina. Early connections that we know of is with Nathaniel Vess who married Clarinda Bellew, a descendant of both the Bellew and Gosnell families. Another early connection, one on Peter’s line, is with David Andrew Vess, who married Magnolia Gosnell, whose 2nd great aunt is Clarinda Vess (Nathan’s wife).
Magnolia Gosnell’s family appears to be from Madison County, North Carolina with her father having been born in Greenville County, South Carolina, descendant of Charles Gosnell Jr. and Lucy Pruitt. I do not know where David Andrew Vess (from McDowell County, North Carolina) met Magnolia Gosnell (from Madison County, North Carolina), but research suggests the Vess and Gosnell families may have more history together than we originally thought, perhaps as long time friends or neighbors.
I’ve seen this name before countless times, but with not much of a clue as to whether it meant anything. But now, lets look back at the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina: Joshua Gosnell, Abraham Belue (Bellew) and there listed below them is a David Benson.
So, how does David Benson connection to Charles Travers??
Well, according to the online article about Charles Travers, the daughter of David Benson (Nancy Benson) married the son of Charles Travers (Thomas Travers). They were married in 1811, in Kentucky with Nancy being much younger than Thomas, which may suggest that Thomas had children prior to his marriage to Nancy.
With that discovery, I was able to research a little more on David Benson… David Benson married Elizabeth Pruitt (Pruette) who was born in South Carolina (1775). I wonder if she is related to Lucy Pruitt, wife of Charles Gosnell Jr, born of the Pruitt family in Spartanburg County, SC whose family has connections with the Pool, Hembree, and Bellew families in the Tyger River community???
According to the North Carolina Land Grants and Deeds website, David Benson was issued land (1795) on the branch of Webbs Creek in Rutherford County, North Carolina. Is this the same David Benson? The Webb family on Webbs Creek consisted of John, William, Elias, and Robert Webb and there is also a Lewis Bailey family. Webbs Creek branches off the Second Broad River (eastward). Cathey’s Creek also branches off the Second Broad River (westward), and west of the Second Broad River is the Bill’s Creek community. Is there a connection? I do not know yet, but perhaps it is worth noting.
Connection to Willis Vess: Montgomery County, NC
Charles Travers appears in 1790 Montgomery County, NC census record. Interestingly, we also find a very large Suggs family, specifically, a “Harbert Suggs.” So, where have I seen the name Suggs before??
Going back to the Franklin County, Alabama plat map to look at the Foxtrap area where, according to Anna Popejoy, the father of Willis Vess (John Vess) settled sometime between 1818-1820, you can find “Harbert Sugg” not too far away. Further research tells us Harbert obtained land from Huntsville (likely for Franklin, AL) as early as 1831. Also, several Sugg family sources state the Suggs family in Franklin County, Alabama did come from Montgomery County, North Carolina. Harbert Sugg’s mortality record, even states he was born in North Carolina.
Connection to Nathan Vess: Abraham Belyeu / Bellew in Anson County, NC
We know there was an Abraham Bellew in Anson County, NC (1790 census) , but we do not know if he is related to the Abraham Bellew on the 1790 South Carolina census listed next to Joshua Gosnell and David Benson. Perhaps the South Carolina Bellew is Abraham Bellew “Jr.”?? Further research is needed, but if David Benson is the David Benson mentioned in the article about Charles Travers, perhaps there is a connection.
While looking up the Suggs family, I came across Abraham Belyeu. According to an article on Thomas Sugg , written by Wynona Maxey (2008), Robert Sugg and Abraham Belyeu are witnesses on a land deed on Pee Dee River. This doesn’t exactly connect to Charles Travers, but it is worth investigating, considering Charles Travers supposedly lived on or near the Pee Dee River.
Connection To Peter Vess: Harris – Ledbetter Family
Helen M. Lu’s book, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, provides us great insight into the generation of Andrew Logan Vess and his brothers; however, just barely gives us a glimpse into Peter’s generation. According to Helen M. Lu, church records prior to 1827 have been lost and only one page in her book gives us an idea on who where early members of the church between 1827-1830 (Lu pg. 115).
Many of these names are well known: Whiteside, Vess, Dalton, Bagwell, Hill, Ledbetter, and Green; however, Harris is one that I do not recognize.
According to the article on Charles Travers, Charles Travers married Elizabeth Harris. The article also mentions that the Travers family were close to a “West” Harris family. A quick research reveals there was a Col. West Harris Jr. (Montgomery Co, NC) who married Edith Ledbetter, daughter of Charles and Frances Ledbetter. It will take some time to research the connection between the Ledbetter family in Anson County and the Ledbetter family in Rutherford County, but I bet they are related (even if distantly).
Going back to the complied list of early Bill’s Creek Baptist Church members [above], I see an unidentified Harris family. Looking up “Archibald Harris” only gives me information on an Archibald Harris in Anson County, NC (interesting), but I haven’t found an Archibald Harris in Rutherford County, NC, nor have I been able to find anything on the other listed Harris members.
A New Lead or Just Wishful Thinking
IF we did split directly from the TRAVERS family in America, perhaps it was with the Travers family in Montgomery County, North Carolina. AND IF, (A HUGE IF) we are related to the Travers family in Montgomery County, North Carolina, perhaps this explains Peter and Willis Vess having been born in North Carolina and Nathan Vess born in South Carolina; especially, if Nathan was a cousin rather than a brother.
Perhaps the Vess family was in Anson / Montgomery County and one of the Vess brothers (father of Nathan Vess) travelled with the Bellew family to South Carolina, which is where Nathan was supposedly born. The other Vess brother (father of Peter and Willis Vess), possibly named John, moved to Alabama with the Willis and Suggs families prior to 1830.
What about the promising Vice family? What about the VESS/VOSS/VEST families in Patrick, Rockbridge, and Augusta County in Virginia. What about the Voss family in Casewell County?
Well, maybe there is a connection with them too; families weren’t technically small back then. It is unlikely Peter, Willis and Nathan Vess are the only relatives of their generation. I mean, it wasn’t until just recently that we discovered that Peter and Willis Vess, not only are genetically related (same family line), but closely related!
Also, I just learned that the Pettit family traveled through Augusta County, Virginia on their way to South Carolina. Apparently, according to one source, the western part of Virginia was just giving away South Carolina land grants.
When it comes to Vess genealogy, there are always new leads and that is what makes Vess genealogy so frustrating.
Sources Lu, Helen M. Bill’s Creek Baptist Church Two Hundred Year History 1782–1982. United States, United States, 1984.
Although the VESS/VEST family of Patrick County, Virginia (1790-1801) are extremely intriguing and seem like a promising connection, I am drawn back to the Dark Corners of South Carolina. I decided to take another look at Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess. Looking at all my research, I have come to realize that the early families surrounding them, all came from South Carolina.
Peter: Pettit and Toney families. Willis: Nichols, Willis, Askews, Whitlock families (many more) Nathan: Bellew and Gosnell families
Of course, these families all have different origin-origins, like the Pettit family come from New Jersey, the Gosnell family come from Maryland, and the Nichols, Willis, Askews (Eskews) and Whitlock families come from Virginia; but all of them, just before they appear with our earliest known Vess ancestors (Peter, Willis, and Nathan) … were all in South Carolina; more specifically, the Tyger River area.
Tyger River Area: South Carolina’s Complicated Borders
The western portion of South Carolina has a complicated history with very messy borders, making it a nightmare to find family records. For instance, between 1769-1779, Tryon County, North Carolina and the Ninety-Six District in South Carolina overlap. Some residents in this area were issued land from the State of North Carolina while others were issued land from the state of South Carolina.
The Vice Family
I’ve looked for families with similar surnames to VESS in South Carolina a zillion times, but apparently, I overlooked the VICE family.
On the 1810 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I found a John Vice next to Nancy Poole. Nancy Poole reminds me of Nancy Pool, sister of Mary Ann Pool, who married Henry Pettit Sr (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess).
So, I searched the name “John Vice” in the South Carolina Digital Archives. One record of interest is a land record dated 1824 for Benjamin Nicholls on Thomsons Branch along the Tyger River. It includes familiar families such as Duncan, Moore, Nicholls, Pettit, and Willis.
Clearly intrigued, I began to research further…
Many early families are well documented by family historians and generally, with a few odd-ball keywords, a good chunk of their history can be found via Google. I was fortunate to find information pertaining to the VICE family on a Turley Family website.
Who Is John Vice
Land records show that the Vice family has been in the Tyger River community as early as 1782 and numerous sources say some members of the Vice family moved to Benton (now Calhoun) county, Alabama.
Research tells us that John Vice was born in Orange County, Virginia about 1755 and died in Spartanburg County, South Carolina in 1833. He is the son of Nathaniel Camp Vice (1730-1802) of Frederick County, Virginia.
Nathaniel Camp Vice is supposedly the son of Robert or John VESSEY of Frederick County, Virginia; however, the origins of VESSEY are not clear. Nathaniel Camp Vice migrated south and settled in Campbell County, Kentucky with many of his descendants rooting in Bath County, Kentucky.
Nathaniel’s son, John Vice (some note his name as John William Vice), married Frances Roebuck in 1773 in Chatham County, North Carolina, before settling in Spartanburg County, South Carolina. According to the Turley Family website, they had 10 children:
John Roebuck Vise abt. 1774
Nathaniel Vise abt. 1774 and married Dorcas MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Rhoda Vise abt. 1776 and married Peter LAWRENCE.
Levi Vise abt. 1778
George Vise abt. 1780 and married Elizabeth WALKER.
Reuben Vise 1782
Eliphous Hosea “Eli” Vise abt. 1785 and married Rebecca MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Elizabeth Vise 1787 in Spartanburg , SC and married Thomas WRIGHT.
Azariah “Zery” Vise abt. 1790
Jeremiah “Jere” Vise about 1790
Abner Vise about 1792 and married Lucinda PREWITT.
Jemima Vise about 1792
A Tyger River Baptist Church Connection
The Turley family website states: “John Vise and Frances Roebuck Vise were members of the Tyger River Baptist Church, also called Friendship Church. On the membership roll for 1801-1803…”
This is an incredible find, for that the Tyger River Baptist Church was part of the same church association as Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. We also know that the Pettit family were also members of the Tyger River Baptist Church.
According to history.ky.gov, the location of the Tyger River Baptist Church is unknown however is said to have been located in the northern portion of Greenville County, close to the North Carolina border. This would ideally put the church very close to the Glassy Mountain community and the communities along the Pacelot River (North and South Carolina border in modern day Polk County) where we find many early families from Tryon County (like the Logan family).
I bet there are a lot of interesting families listed as members on the Tyger River Baptist Church Membership Rolls; unfortunately, these records do not appear to be available online nor are they physically available near me.
Census Records: Spartanburg County, South Carolina
On the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families: 1. Boston Best 2. Henry Pattit (Pettit) 3. Joshua Pattit (Pettit) 4. John Wice (Vice)
A few pages over, you will find the following families: 1. Abraham Belue (Bellew) 2. Joshua Gosnell
*The Bise families on the 1790 census might actually be part of the Vise family.
On the 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families interestingly close together: Nat Vice (Nathaniel Vice, John Vice son) John Willis Richard Willis (find him on land records with Vice family)
DNA Connections
Autosomal DNA Results For me, many of the names on the VICE family tree frequently show up in my DNA relatives list, especially via the Turley, McPherson, and White families.
Even more interestingly, I have a long list of distant DNA relatives with family trees showing them as descendants of the VICE family and not just through one VICE family line, but numerous VICE family lines. Most are via John and Nathaniel Vice (sons of John and France Roebuck Vice of South Carolina) and others are from several different descending lines (sons and daughters) from Nathaniel Camp Vice in Kentucky. And, to make it even more interesting, they share DNA relatives with DNA relatives who are descendants on the Willis Vess line.
Pettit – Vice Connection The granddaughter of John Vice married Benjamin Pettit who is related to Henry Pettit Sr. (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess) through Joshua Pettit.
John Vice and Henry Pettit have a common neighbor: Andrew Thomson. *Correction: Andrew Thomson maybe the surveyor. 1. 1784 land record: Pacelot River / Ninety-six District Henry Pettit, William Pool, and Andrew Thomson 2. 1786 land record: Tyger River / Ninety-six District John Vise, Andrew Thomson, John Oshields, Joel Hembree, David Grimes, John Butler *Pettit and Hembree families are related.
The Next Chapter: Vice Family
I am really excited about discovering the Vice family! Not only do they have a similar surname to VESS, but they are also in the right place at the right time, surrounded by many familiar families that connect with Peter, Willis, and Nathan!
Also, because the Vice family is supposedly from Frederick County, Virginia, there is still a chance for a possible connection with the Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia! So, I am extremely excited!! This could be our family’s missing link OR I am embarking upon another goose-chase!
I am extremely excited to announce that we have been given the opportunity to start a VESS FAMILY DNA PROJECT!
A huge thanks to Marilyn Barton, for allowing us to revive her Vess Family DNA project on Familytreedna.com and also, a huge thanks to Michael Travers and Vincent Vess for managing it for us!
How To Join?
To join and participate, you must have an account with Familytreedna.com.
Click on this link for step-by-step instructions from yourdnaguide.com.
How Long Does The Transfer Process Take
Familytreedna.com states it takes 3-5 business days to process, but some reviews state it could be as quick as a few hours; it all depends on how many transfers they have to process (it’s a queue system).
However, you can join the Vess Family DNA Project and explore public Haplotrees while you wait for your results to process.
$19 To Access Additional Tools
It is my understanding that a free account opened by transferring DNA results from another vendor, allows you access to FamilyFinder and DNA Projects. However, one must pay $19 to unlock additional tools such as the Chromosome Browser, MyOrigins, and AncientOrigins.
Which isn’t that bad, considering you’re not having to buy an expensive DNA kit again or pay any kind of subscription to continue to access information.
Who Can Participate?
Any member of Familytreedna.com can join the Vess Family DNA Project! It is my understanding that this DNA project is not restricted to any specific type of testers and thus, all DNA tests are able to provide valuable information to the project.
Information provided by Autosomal DNA testers (both genders) allow us to make new family connections.
Information provided by mtDNA testers allow us to explore maternal roots.
Information provided by Y-DNA testers allow us to identify and connect different VESS/ VOSS/VASS/ VEST family lines.
Information provided by Big-Y testers allow us to further investigate and unravel the mystery between the Vess and Travers families.
The more participants, the more DNA information we can obtain and analyze, and then the more connections we can make!
Transferring Y-DNA Test Results
If you have already done a Y-DNA test through a different company that used the Sorenson 33 or 46-marker test, you can transfer your results to Familytreedna.com to participate in the Y-DNA portion of the Vess Family DNA Project.
I am so thrilled to have finally reached a new chapter in Vess Genealogy!
When I started this blog last Fall (August 2020), it was simply just a place to organize digital sources and share my genealogy experiences researching the Vess name. I gave it 2 months!
Remarkably, Vess Genealogy kept on going! I never would have ever imagined I would get to work with so many different people interested in the VESS name nor get an opportunity to meet so many different VESS families! This has been such an amazing genealogy adventure!
A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone helping me unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!
If New To Vess Genealogy, Here’s What You Missed!
For generations, three different VESS lines (maybe more) haven’t been able find their ancestors prior to 1820. A frustrating endeavor leaving many of us to just give up.
However, since last Fall, we achieved the following:
1. We learned more about Peter Vess and his family. 2. We learned a lot about Andrew Logan Vess and his family. 3. We likely uncovered Nathan’s origins in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. 4. We discovered that Peter and Willis Vess are closely related and that our family is closely related to the Travers family! 5. We explored families in Knob’s Creek from Peter’s 1820 census record. 6. We discovered “Vess” records in Virginia connected to an unknown Vest/Vess family! 8. We confirmed (via DNA) that the VESS family is not related to the BASS, BEST, WEST, or VEST families; eliminating them as possible family connections.
Brief Recap On Vess Genealogy
We now know that Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess are related; however, we have not yet determined how they are related to each other.
Peter and Willis were born in North Carolina and Nathan was born in South Carolina. Peter first appears on record in Rutherford County, North Carolina in 1820 on Knobs Creek with the Toney, Pettit, and Mooney families (all members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church).
Nathan’s first appearance on record is also in Rutherford County, North Carolina, but in 1830 with his in-laws, the Bellew family. The Bellew and Gosnell families are related and are prominent families in Glassy Mountain, Greenville County, South Carolina (aka Dark Corners). Also, Peter’s grandson, David Andrew Vess married Magnolia “Maggie” Gosnell, who is related to Nathan’s wife, Clarinda Bellew.
Willis first appears on record in Franklin County, Alabama in 1830. According to Anna Popejoy, long time researcher of the Vess and Whitlock families, states that the father of Willis Vess (John Vess) had been living in Foxtrap since 1819. Y-DNA analysis, via familytreedna.com, confirms Willis Vess and Peter Vess (Andrew Logan Vess) are definitely part of the same VESS family.
Familytreedna.com (FTDNA) also shows that the VESS and TRAVERS family are closely related; however, we do not know how they are related. There are several reasons as to why FTDNA may group two different surnames closely together; either we are extremely close cousins, one family that split apart during a time before surnames, or a male Travers ancestor took on the Vess name (orvice versa).To unravel this mystery, it would be extremely helpful to have more male Vess descendants participate in Y-DNA Testing.
The Travers family is from Lancashire, England and they have traced their family to Dorchester, Maryland. Whether there is a connection between the Vess and Travers family in Colonial America has yet to be discovered (the families may have split long before they arrived in America).
With the help of Y-DNA and documented family histories, we’ve been able to eliminate the BASS, BEST, WEST, and VEST families as potential ancestors for the Vess family.
The BASS family has a rich Native American background. The BEST family (original surname BOSCH) can trace their family back to their arrival in the 1740’s with the Ecker family (in-laws) from Germany. The WEST family has been ruled out by their extensive West Family DNA Project. And the VEST family, descendants of John Daniel Vest belong to an entirely different Haplogroup than our VESS family. To my knowledge, there is no available DNA information on the VASS/VOSS/ VAULX families.
We have recently discovered a VEST/VESS family in Patrick County, Virginia who may be related to the VEST/VESS family in Rockbridge, Virginia. We have yet to find any records suggesting that they may belong to the VEST family (John Daniel Vest), which is extremely encouraging for our VESS family, andtherefore a new chapter begins!
I am in the process of investigating the Life of Willis Vess and hopefully, with any luck, we can uncover some of Anna Popejoy’s research to help us! I plan to explore more families in and surrounding Patrick County, Virginia – including Surry and Stokes County, North Carolina. All in addition to finding out more about the VOSS/VASS/ VAULX families who seem to live very close to the TRAVERS family in both Dorchester, Maryland and the abolished Albemarle County in North Carolina.
We so badly want to connect our VESS family to William Tunwell VESTof Stokes County, North Carolina; mostly, because it seems to be the only thing that makes the most sense!
While researching Willis Vess in Alabama, I took a slight detour back to the VEST family of Virginia, because I discovered a VEST family 2 counties east of Willis Vess taunting me with records as early as 1818. I had to figure out who they were.
Long story short, I searched for every early VEST record I could find in Virginia and started plotting them on a map. Then, with the help of Y-DNA information provided by a fellow researcher, I started the process of elimination. The final results surprisingly revealed another VEST / VESS family!
Why Does William Tunwell Vest Seem Like A Connection?
Despite having BEST, VOSS, and VASS families also in North Carolina to consider, I was hoping there was a connection with William Tunwell VEST; mostly, because he makes the most sense for the time, place, and names.
Peter Vess Peter Vess of Rutherford County, NC was born between 1791-1794 in North Carolina and most of his records are found under the “VEST” surname; except for the 1830 census (Voss) and his 1831 land record (Vess).
After his death sometime before 1844, the “VEST” surname continued with his wife Catherine and their sons, as shown in Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu. It wasn’t until 1849, when the “Vess” surname really stuck, in both census and church records. Therefore, it is easy to assume that Peter maybe connected to the VESTfamily.
We were even 100% confident that we had discovered his connection with the VEST family when we found a Surry County War of 1812-1814 record listing a “Peter VEST.” Not only is Surry County right next to Stokes County in North Carolina, but also the names of the other soldiers listed with Peter VEST seem to have connections with the grandchildren of William Tunwell VEST through his son Isham VEST. Because there doesn’t appear to be any VEST families in Surry County, the VEST family next door (in Stokes County) seems like a good fit.
A possible connection to William Tunwell VEST became even more enticing when records for Peter Vess suggested his father may have been named John Vess (1831 Rutherford Co. land grant record). According to the Last Will and Testament of William Tunwell VEST (1812), he just so happens to have a son named John VEST!
Willis Vess William Tunwell Vest also seems like a potential ancestor to Willis Vess.
Willis Vess was born in North Carolina (abt) 1810, supposedly to “John Vess and Maragaret Vaughn” who are said to have also been born in North Carolina. Because William Tunwell VEST had a son named John VEST, it appeared there could be a connection; however, John VEST married Eliza RAY (not Margaret Vaughn). Of course, John could have been married twice, but records show us that John VEST (despite who he was married to) appears to have been living in North Carolina (or Indiana-whichever source you pick) during the time that the father of Willis Vess was living in Alabama; therefore they must not be the same person.
Nathan Vess Interestingly, there haven’t been any plausible ideas between William Tunwell Vest and Nathan Vess. Because Nathan was born in South Carolina, one could possibly conclude he is Peter’s cousin rather than his brother. So, Nathan’s lack of connection to the VEST family in Stokes County, NC never really seemed like such a big deal.
The VEST & VESS Families Are Not Related
According to information from FamilytreeDNA.com, the VEST and VESS families are not related! In fact, they don’t even share the same Haplogroup!
The descendants of John Daniel VEST (VEST family of Virginia) belong to Haplogroup-I, whereas the descendants of Willis Vess and Andrew Logan Vess (our VESS family) belong to Haplogroup- R (R1a). That’s quite a distance from each other on the Y-Haplogroup tree.
So, we can pretty much eliminate any VEST family related to John Daniel Vest as being possible ancestors, including William Tunwell VEST of Stokes County, North Carolina.
I was holding onto William Tunwell VEST for a long time, just in case; however, I eventually discovered that he is the son of John Daniel VEST.
In the Last Will and Testament of John Daniel Vest (1765) of Chesterfield County, Virginia, John names his wife “Ann Vest” (likely Charolette Ann Bakes) as well as his 7 children: “John Vest, Valentine Vest, Elizabeth Vest, James Vest, George Vest, Phillip Vest, and William Tunwell Vest.” [Transcribed by Sandra Lake Lassen March 1993 – Ancestry.com]
By the way, I discovered the VEST family near Willis Vess in Alabama are descendants of John Daniel Vest through George Washington Vest– so, no relation to Willis Vess.
Mapping VEST Families
Instead of trying to untangle the many different branches of the VEST family, I decided it would be better to us their records to plot them all on a map. During this process, I came to discover that a lot of VEST families do seem to be descendants of John Daniel Vest and Charolette Ann Bakes. The family appears to have originated from Chesterfield and Powhatan County, VA and then migrated westward into Bedford County, then down into Franklin and Floyd Counties, before conquering the rest of the United States.
After finishing my map, two VESS/VEST families who do not seem to have any connection with the John Daniel Vest family stood out!
The Map The counties [below] highlighted inredcontain VEST records. The counties marked with an X have records that strongly suggest a relationship with John Daniel Vest. And, the counties left, with no X, have records with both the VESS and VEST surname.
This map is not 100% accurate. It is very likely that there are areas and families I missed; especially, since documentation of these VESS-VEST families is scarce and require deep digging into Virginia archives. The purpose of this map is to see if we could identify any “separate” families, such as those using the VESS surname.
Exploring VESS/VEST Families
Rockbridge County and Patrick County, Virginia are the only two counties where I have found records with the VESS name and families whose records seem to use the VESS and VEST surname interchangeably, and interestingly, neither of them seem to have any records that suggest (at this time) they are connected to the John Daniel Vest family! So, who are they and do they have any connection to our VESS family?
VESS/VEST family of Rockbridge, Virginia
According to my ancestral DNA, I have distant DNA-relatives who are descendants of Addison Vess of Rockbridge County, Virginia through my VESS line. My project, of course, could be flawed as the connection could be distant, possibly connected between different families related to Addison Vess.
However, I used the same search method again for the VEST name and more DNA-relatives came up; all related to Vess families in Rockbridge, VA. I did not get any DNA-relatives descending from the John Daniel Vest family.
The Vest/Vess family living in Rockbridge are found near Colliers Creek and Kerrs Creek. Library of Congress Looking at this map [below], there are family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Hostetter, Ailstock, Noel, Morris, and Tolly, and Armstrong.
William, Peter, & Samuel VESS/VEST of Patrick County
As mentioned in a previous post, “What We Know So Far,” we recently discovered a Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia who we have no idea (like the Rockbridge family) as to whether they are related to the VESS or VEST family (perhaps neither).
I was provided a list of land deeds for Patrick County, Virginia (1791-1801) to compare to the residents in Tryon County, North Carolina (1769-1779) to see if there was any kind of connection. Unfortunately, I did not find anything significant, for that Tryon County records are much older than the Patrick County records and it just wouldn’t make sense that families would travel so far south just to end back up North. I guess they could have, but probably unlikely during a time when families were migrating out west and down south.
The records we find in Patrick County, Virginia include a William, Peter, and a Samuel Vess (VEST/VOSS) who lived on the border of Patrick County and Henry County (as shown on the mapbelow) in Bull Mountain, North Mayo River, and Koger Creek, just below Franklin County, Virginia.
These records also show family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Duncan, Dodson, Willis, Watson, Reynolds, Sharp, Hooker, and Randal.
HAIRSTON & PENN Families: A Little Local History While researching some of the families on this deed list, I discovered that the HAIRSTON and PENN families (both on the deed list) have a bit of history in the area.
George HAIRSTON built Beaver Creek Plantation which was a tobacco plantation and a very large slave-trading post in Martinsville, VA (east of Koger Creek in Henry Co.). He served under Col. Abraham PENN who was the original owner of the land that George Hairston built his plantation on (using a royal grant). The PENN family built “Poplar Grove” plantation in Patrick County, VA near Patrick Springs (west of North Mayo River). And both HAIRSTON and PENN families married into the STOVALL family- all connected.
There appears to be several plantations in the area, all of which utilized slaves and indentured servants. Indentured servants generally had a 7 year contract and in return for their service, their masters often granted them land. Looking at records on Patrick County, VA Genweb, we find deed records referred to an “Indenture,” where land was transferred to the “apprentice” after all debts and terms of their contract have been satisfied.
Jonathan William Vess of Texas: Koger Creek According to the deed list, William Vess/Vest is shown near a Herron/ Heron family and as previously known, marriage records show Elizabeth Herron having married Johnathan William Vess in 1791 in Patrick County, Virginia. Johnathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron traveled with Stephen F. Austin from Missouri to Texas (Republic of Texas) during the 1820’s. This William Vess/Vest on the Patrick County deed list may either be Jonathan himself or perhaps his father.
Peter Vess and William Vess/Voss: North Mayo River According to the deed list, west of Koger Creek are residents of the North Mayo River which includes Peter Vess, William Vess/Voss, Samuel Vess, William Willis, and William Sharp.
This Vess/Voss family is most interesting for that we see them with the Willis, Dodson, and Sharp families (family surnames that are also found in Franklin County, Alabama with Willis Vess).
To make things even more interesting, we found a 1785 marriage record for Peter Vess and Pugnance Vaughn in Henry County. (Henry County is next to Patrick County, and there was a time when both counties were one, called Patrick-Henry County)
What is interesting about this, is that according to Anna Popejoy, the parents of Willis Vess were John Vess and Margaret Vaughn. To this day, we do not know where she got this information; however, we are now wondering, if this is them.
Perhaps their full names were John Peter Vess and Pugnance Margaret Vaughn??? Also note, that the brother of Willis Vess is supposedly “John Peter Vess,” perhaps he was a John Peter Vess Jr.?
In addition, records also show land transactions between Peter Vess and Samuel Vess via John Duncan. At the bottom of this particular deed list (with Peter and Samuel), you will also find a Whitlock family.
Are These VESS/VEST Families Related
It is plausible that the Rockbridge VESS/VEST family and the Patrick County VESS/VEST families are related to each other, for that records of the Patrick County family (earliest record 1785) come before the records of the Rockbridge family (earliest record 1818); suggesting one of the Vess members may have migrated to Rockbridge, Virginia from Patrick County, Virginia.
It has also been observed that Samuel Vess of Patrick County, Virginia disappeared before Peter and William Vess; which makes us wonder if he is (or is related to) Samuel Harvey Vess of Rockbridge, Virginia (1830 records).
We do not know if they are genetically related to the our Vess family; however, genealogical records seem to support some kind of connection.
Full Recap
The Vest family of Virginia and our Vess family are not related (two separate Haplogroups).
There is no genetic relationship between our Vess family and William Tunwell Vest in Stokes County, North Carolina.
Maps reveal a separate VESS/VEST family residing in Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia. It is not yet know if these two VESS/VEST families are related, but it is plausible considering the record dates.
We have likely discovered the families of Jonathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron (of Republic of Texas) in Patrick County, Virginia on Koger Creek.
We have discovered that there is a Peter, Samuel, and William VESS/VOSS on the North Mayo River with a Willis, Sharp, and possibly a Whitlock family.
The area in which we find these families in Patrick County, has a history of plantations and records that suggest some of the land owners were once indentured servants.
Many family surnames found in both Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia are familiar names seen elsewhere in Vess family research; especially, regarding Peter and Willis Vess.
No definite conclusions can be made at this time; however, these new discoveries seem promising! It appears that a new chapter in Vess Genealogy has just begun!
If you are or know someone who is a male descendant with the VESS or VEST surname, please consider participating in Y-DNA testing through FamilytreeDNA.com to help us unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!
Again, a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who has shared their findings with me on the Vess name in effort to piece together VESS family history!
Vess Genealogy has been stuck at a massive roadblock for generations. In my opinion, I believe there was a name change.
Records do exist. Either we are missing the places they might be (due to county changes) or we are overlooking records, because the surname is indexed wrong due to illegible handwriting.
Our ancestors lived in an area during a time where county lines were constantly changing, which means there are probably some counties that we may never in a zillion years ever think to look for records.
The biggest reason I believe records do exist is because so many other early families of western North Carolina have a paper-trail.
Okay, it is not exactly the neatest of paper-trails for that when you get into early records (early 1800’s and back), surnames are really butchered (horribly misspelled) to the point that even if you squint and look at it sideways, it might (if you shout it from a distancewith a little echo) sound phonetically similar to the surname that it was meant to be. So, in most cases, it is the content that usually confirms the persons identity more so than the indexed surname linked to the record.
My point is, if a good portion of early families in the same area have records, there is a good chance the Vess family also has records. Unfortunately, there are too many different surname variants and counties to explore. If we want to move forward a little faster, perhaps genetic genealogy can help us.
Check out this cool video below – A North Carolina dialect that evolved independently due to isolation since the 1600’s. If that is anywhere close to what our ancestors used to talk like, no wonder names were horribly misspelled.
What Is Genetic Genealogy
It is my understanding, as I am 100% new to this, that genetic genealogy is a new approach to tackling difficult ancestors who do not want to be found.
Instead of digging through dusty old archives for records to make family connections, we can now make family connections with the help of DNA relatives. Unfortunately, the name of our stubborn ancestors are not embedded into our DNA, but DNA-relatives can point us in the direction, like a compass, to locate genealogy records that might help us identify a common ancestor.
Essentially, the idea is to use both methods (DNA and records) together to quickly and more accurately make new connections on the family tree.
Y-Chromosome DNA Testing is GOLD
Y-Chromosome DNA testing is gold, but without a lot of participants, it can also be lead.
Every male descendant carries a gene called a Y-Chromosome. Geneticist’s extract the DNA from the Y-Chromosome, analyze it and assign it to a Y-Chromosome Haplogroup (A-R).
A haplogroup consists of a group of people who share very similar DNA with one another suggesting a single common ancestor. An extremely ancient common ancestor.
The more people who participate in Y-DNA testing, the more these Haplogroups can be broken down into smaller groups called a subclade. Subclades are subgroups of Haplogroups. Assignment is largely based on single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP’s), which are specific mutations that correlate to specific paternal lines. Every time a mutation occurs over thousands of years, that genetic line branches off into a new subclade (or so that is my vague understanding of it).
As more DNA is collected and analyzed, the subclade may change; either resulting in grouping more people together into one subclade (moving from one existing subclade to another existing subclade) or having enough new information to create an entirely new subclade.
The VESS family is assigned to Haplogroup R. Haplogroup R has many different branches (subclades).
When members of the VESS family submitted their DNA, a new subclade was created where they were grouped together with the TRAVERS family (we are closely related), and then, when some members of the VESS family completed the BIG-Y Chromosome test (a more in-depth analysis), the VESS family was later assigned a new subclade although still grouped together with the TRAVERS family. This suggests a mutation.
It is interesting that our group has two different surnames and it kind of makes you wonder who came first: TRAVERS or VESS?
Did a male descendant of the TRAVERS family take the VESS surname, maybe from a step-parent, or was adopted by a VESS family or vice versa. There is also the possibility that our common ancestor could be from a time when surnames didn’t exist. OR we aren’t as closely related as we think and as more people begin to test, the VESS and TRAVERS family might drift apart into two different groups. The only thing I know for sure, is that it is a mystery we cannot solve today.
However, we did identify a new VESS line using Y-Chromosome testing: Willis Vess of Alabama.
The best thing about this DNA database, is that participants often note their oldest known ancestor which gives genealogists a specific location on a map to look for genealogy records. Although we know Andrew Logan Vess and Willis Vess are related, we have yet to determine how they are related to one another on the VESS family tree.
This is what I mean by Y-Chromosome DNA testing being gold but also lead. It has the potential to unravel many VESS mysteries, but without more participants, those mysteries will remain in the dark.
Male descendants carrying the VESS surname or one similar to it (VASS, VOSE, VOSS, VEST, VAUX, etc) are greatly encouraged to participate in Y-DNA testing through Familytreedna.com as there might be a genetic connection.
Autosomal DNA Testing
While Y-Chromosome DNA testing is a more direct route to identifying our paternal ancestors, autosomal DNA testing is more or less like taking the scenic route.
Y-Chromosome DNA tests provide you a much bigger genealogical timeline of just one paternal line that dates back to ancient times, whereas ancestral DNA tests are autosomal, which means they only go back 6-8 generations and is saturated by DNA-relatives on both sides of the family (paternal and maternal lines).
For me, my DNA-relatives related to the VESS line would mainly consist of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess (my third great-grandfather-6th gen). It would just barely (if at all) pick up DNA-relatives descending from Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess or even their parents. It greatly depends on how many of their descendants have submitted an ancestral DNA test and just how far they descend down the Vess-family line.
With an 8-generation family tree, a DNA test by my mom, and access to DNA information provided by a close family member who is a generation older than me, I have been able to identify DNA-relatives specifically connected to the VESS family line via a lengthy tedious process of elimination.
Fortunately, my mom’s DNA test does half the work for me by identifying DNA-relatives on her side of the family. Then, I look at shared DNA relatives with the family member who is a generation older than me to further identify DNA-relatives that are most likely VESS-related. Because this family member is a generation older than me, their DNA test would detect more DNA-relatives, those who are too distant to be detected by my DNA test.
Any DNA-relative with less than a cM count of 8, do not make it onto the DNA-relatives list (it’s too distant), even though there is a relation on the family tree. In theory, it would probably be best to have our grandparents do an ancestral autosomal DNA test. cM (centimorgan)= the amount of shared DNA.
My Search Method
I started by making a list of DNA-relatives who carry the VESS name. Next, I made a list of DNA-relatives with the VESS name who also have a public VESS family tree. Lastly, I made a list of DNA-relatives who do not carry the VESS name, but have a public family tree showing they descend (at one point) from a VESS family member.
For each DNA-relative listed, I noted their oldest known ancestor (some I had to research a bit) and I also had to check their shared-relatives list to make sure they didn’t share DNA with my mom (which was the most time consuming part).
My Discoveries
At a glance, autosomal ancestral DNA tests tell us nothing; except, we have a lot of cousins. But after an extensive process of elimination, then entering the information into a spreadsheet, and finally organizing the information from closest DNA-relatives to most distant DNA-relatives does it actually start to get interesting.
1) As expected, majority of our shared DNA-relatives are descendants of Andrew Logan Vess.
2) As you scroll down towards more distant DNA-relatives, we start to see connections with Willis Vess. Based on this, we can probably confidently say that Willis and Peter Vess are very closely related.
3) Willis Vess seems closer to us than Nathan Vess; which may suggest Nathan’s line has either ended or not many of his descendants have done an ancestral DNA test.
4) Also as expected, the autosomal DNA tests just barely detect DNA-relatives who are descendants of Josiah, Alfred, and Alexander Vess (brothers of Andrew Logan Vess).
5) Interestingly, there are a few DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is one I do not recognize:
–Susan Ann Elizabeth VESS (b. 1856 Rutherford Co. NC) and Columbus MCGINNIS *connected to Ledbetter tree and father is noted as Thomas William VEST of Tennessee
–Elizabeth Louise VESS (b. abt 1845 North Carolina) and William LANNING (marriage Henderson, NC)
–Everline VESS and James STEWART (marriage Colbert, Alabama)
–James Marvin VESS (b. 1853 South Carolina) and Sallie Octavia SPRUELL
**One of the Elizabeth’s might be the daughter of Peter Vess
6) But even more interesting are DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is Addison Vess/Vest.
You would think this is a solid connection to the VEST family of Virginia, but if you look at the family trees for Addison VESS/VEST, they are not well documented and there is no consistency with Addison’s children or parents, which is a RED FLAG in genealogy.
Final Conclusions
I am not an expert, so please keep in mind my search method could be flawed and thus the information within this post could be highly inaccurate.
We still do not have enough information to find new ancestors, but we do have enough genetic evidence to start digging deeper into the life of Willis Vess without wondering whether or not we are wasting our time. Yes, Y-Chromosome testing confirmed he is related to Peter Vess, but autosomal DNA testing suggests the relation is much closer than we think.
Also, we might want to start to investigate Addison VESS/VEST for that his name appeared quite consistently in the chart below. The reason he showed up, is because his descendants some how took on the VESS name rather than keeping the VEST name like other VEST families; in which I think is intriguing. Why did this particular VEST line evolve into a VESS line?
Vess Genealogy 