If there is one thing in Vess Genealogy that bothers me the most, it is the close genetic connection between Peter and Willis Vess. I mean, how are they so closely related?
A number of descendants of Willis Vess show as DNA matches on my Autosomal DNA test, which means there is an early connection somewhere between 6-8 generations back. For me, my 3rd great-grandfather, Andrew Logan Vess, would be the 6th generation. Is Willis Vess the brother of Peter Vess?
Andrew Logan Vess
Before we found out that Peter and Willis Vess were part of the same Vess family (via Y-DNA), I figured I must be connected to Willis Vess through an ancestor on my mother’s side, whose family also had deep roots in Georgia and the Carolinas. But, now I know descendants of Willis Vess also show up as DNA matches for a number of other descendants of Peter Vess.
So, where does Peter and Willis Vess fall on the Vess family tree?
Consistent Geographical Places
As research continues, we have discovered that the Vess family live in communities whose residents appear to be consistently associated with the same geographical places:
1. Enroee River, Spartanburg County, South Carolina 2. Abbeville County, South Carolina 3. Wilkes County, North Carolina 4. White County, Tennessee
You would think that mountainous terrain and dangerous confrontations with Native Americans would have hindered families from traveling large distances; however, that is far from the truth. Many early families owned and maintained land in other states; in which often required the head of household to travel back and forth for business. A lot of families were also uprooted due to wars or the expansion of the new frontier.
Connections To Abbeville County, South Carolina
What also boggles my mind, is that while we find early Vess families in communities associated with common geographical places, there still appears to be no early existence of the Vess family. Generally, one would expect to find at least 1 or 2 close relatives hanging around nearby, as families often traveled together. But in our case, it is as if Peter and Willis Vess, even Jonathan and Nathaniel Vess, seemingly appear into their community out of nowhere!
What is even more curious, is that Alfred Webb Vess, son of Peter Vess, settled in Georgia (prior to the Civil War), while the rest of the Vess family pretty much stayed in North Carolina. Why did he move out of state?
Alfred Webb Vess
It is interesting to note, that he left North Carolina in the early 1850’s, which may have been after the death of his mother, Catherine. In 1860, the entire Rutherford County, N.C. Vess family is shown having had split their ways, with the youngest of Peter and Catherine’s children shown to be living with another family (largely suggesting Catherine had died).
I have yet to figure out why the youngest children of Peter and Catherine went to live with a man named Dempsey Sumner in Buncombe County, NC. I have not found any evidence suggesting any kind of family connection between them. However, I do have reason to believe, Sumner may have given Jasper an apprenticeship, for that Jasper later acquired some of him land. [Note: Indentured servant contracts were still going on prior to the Civil War.]
Alfred Webb Vess married Mary Elizabeth McFarlin, daughter of Benjamin McFarlin and Nancy Stone. They married in 1853, in Franklin County, Georgia, not too far from Mary’s roots in Abbeville County, South Carolina.
Is that a clue that the Vess family also had early roots in Abbeville County, South Carolina, as other research suggests? Was there Vess family in Abbeville County, SC that Alfred went to after Catherine’s death?
Franklin County, Georgia- Abbeville County, South Carolina
This intrigues me, because many residents in Franklin County, Alabama also have earlier connections with Abbeville County, SC. Jonathan Vess of Texas also appears to have connections with Abbeville County, SC, through the families his children married (like McBee and McCullough families). In addition, James Heron (from Patrick County, VA) also owns land in Abbeville County, South Carolina and do not even get me started on the bulk of Travis families who descend from Cork, Ireland also living in Abbeville County, SC, with one of them becoming an important part of early Texas history [William B. Travis: The Battle of the Alamo].
Exploring The TRAVESS Name
Earlier this week, I’ve started to explore the TRAVESS name. I find it interesting that this name is found in Caroline County, Maryland. Although Y-DNA tells us there is no recent connection between the Vess family and the Travers family of Dorchester, Maryland (next to Caroline County); that doesn’t mean, a different Travers family (perhaps with a similar name) wasn’t ever in Maryland. The TRAVESS name, is interestingly, a name that can also be found in both England and Ireland, particularly in Lancashire, England and Donegal (not Cork), Ireland.
Unfortunately, there is no DNA evidence (as of yet) suggesting a connection with any early TRAVESS families (not even sure if TRAVESS is even related to TRAVERS); however, it is a name variant (along with TRAVIS) that we might want to take in consideration when exploring these earlier common geographical places; as it is abundantly clear that our family’s mysterious tracks throughout early Colonial America are hidden behind a different surname.
Originally Published September 27, 2021 • Updated February 24, 2024• Updated August 26, 2026
As you may know, I have been investigating a family story about an “outlaw” that the Vess family was supposedly involved with at one time. Thus far, I’ve explored possible connections with the outlaw, Lewis Redmond, who was “loved and respected” by the residents of the Dark Corners of South Carolina; however, there is no evidence of a direct connection with the Vess family. I’ve also explored a genetic allied-family connection with John “Redhead” Hodge; yet, there is no evidence suggesting he was an outlaw.
Perhaps, the Vess family has nothing to do with an outlaw (or particularly one with “red hair”), or perhaps I’ve been looking in the wrong place…
I’ve been exploring a series of newspaper articles (1835) that frequently mentioned the name “Vess.” The articles appear to be a continuing narrative of true events; however, without starting with the very first article, it is very difficult to tell who this “Vess” person is, in which, these articles are talking about; so I began to dig around…
John Andrew Murrell- The Great Western Land Pirate
After much research, I discovered that these newspaper articles are about the notorious outlaw, John Andrew Murrell.
John Andrew Murrell, according to family history sites, is strongly believed to have been just a horse thief whose notorious reputation as a legendary dangerous outlaw was the result of fabricated stories by Virgil A. Stewart and others.
In Stewart’s narrative, he often mentions his experiences dealing with Matthew Clanton and William Vess; in which he accuses them of damaging his reputation. In one article, he tells a story on how the Vess family tried to poison him and take his land.
Virgil A. Stewart came to the Choctaw Purchase (today known as Grenada County, Mississippi) for prospects of land. According to H.R. Howard, Virgil was employed by Matthew Clanton, who owned a store, and was recommended to board with the Vess family, who were close friends of Matthew Clanton. The publication implies that Mathew Clanton and William Vess were “associates” of John Andrew Murrell.
Later, by a petition of neighbors, Mathew Clanton’s side of the story was published, refuting the accusations against him and the Vess family that Stewart wrote about in his narrative. According to numerous websites, historians believe Virgil A. Stewart’s narrative was “overly-exagerated” and “fictitious.”
William Vess – Disappeared Into the Swamp
Genealogical records confirm that both William Vess and Matthew Clanton were real people. There are land records for Matthew Clanton and William Vess (wife Ann) between 1835-1840 in Mississippi.
According to Holcomb.org, the area in which the above events took place, known as Tuscahoma (Choctaw Purchase), no longer exists. Therefore, any early records pertaining to the residents living in the areas that was once part of the Choctaw Purchase are likely scattered among several different counties (Grenada, Yalobusha, Tallahatchie, etc).
William Vess can be found on the 1840 census record in Yalobusha, Mississippi, showing just him and his wife, Ann. In 1850, in Tallahatchie, Mississippi, Ann Vess is shown living with a young Martha A. Worsley (age 11), but no William Vess.
In the 1850 Probate records for Tallahatchie, Mississippi, Ann “Vest” petitioned for and was granted letters of administration, allowing her to settle her husband’s estate (William R. “Vest”), who did not have a will.
She explains that her husband disappeared in September of 1849. He left without telling her where he was going. She heard from him 10 days later, that he was in the “swamp west,” and hadn’t heard from him since. She believes he may have “perished in the swamp.”
It appears that William and Ann Vess didn’t have any children, and she sought to protect her right to keep his land.
But, what is this “swamp west” Ann mentioned in the probate record?
In 1849, Congress passed the Swamp Land Act, where local governments can sell land in the swamp areas. At this time, it only applied to Louisiana, however, Mississippi residents ventured off into the western Mississippi Delta swamps early, anticipating that the Swamp Land Act would expand to Mississippi.
William Vess most likely set out to the swamps to make an early claim on land; which he probably didn’t tell anyone about, as it wasn’t legal yet.
However, the western Mississippi Delta swamps were notoriously dangerous, with floods, disease, and outlaws. A lot of prospectors died venturing off into the swamps.
Because he has a recent past tangled up with the John A. Murrell conspiracy, one can’t help but wonder, if he had intentionally disappeared into the swamp (as some often did) to start a new life, or meet up with the remaining “land pirates” who hid there.
We’ll likely never know.
William R. Vess – Connection To Pryor and William Vess
I am curious though, if William R. Vess could also be or related to William Vess in White County, Tennessee (brother of Pryor Vess). Only because it sounds like a Pryor and William Vess kind of adventure…
Pyror and William Vess are documented trouble makers, from Virginia all the way down into Tennessee. Interestingly, William Vess disappears from record after Pryor Vess died in jail in 1831 (Warren County, TN). AND, William R. Vess, doesn’t appear in Mississippi until 1835. Hmmmm.
Also, there is a young William R. Vess living with the Dodson family in 1850 (not sure who he belongs to); could he be related to William R. Vess in Mississippi??
Could William R. Vess in Mississippi be related to our R1a2 Vess family. I mean, the story must of come from somewhere, right?
According to FindAGrave.com, it mentions John A. Murrell having “curling auburn hair,” and he was an outlaw, an outlaw that had “followers,” rather than actual “gangs,” and he was named in a conspiracy involving a “Vess.”
Maybe it’s just a coincidence or perhaps, this widespread publication influenced a Vess family story about a red-headed outlaw the Vess family followed and adored. It certainly makes one wonder though…
The Moffitt family is one of my favorite families to research. They have been in America since before the American Revolutionary War and not only do they have interesting family stories, but also have interesting family connections.
When researching families in North Carolina, it’s not uncommon to come across a Moffitt. Although they are not considered a so-called “prominent” family (one with political power or wealth), they were indeed a well-known family.
Cora Nevada Moffitt and Pinkney Elcanah Vess
Cora Nevada Moffitt
Cora Nevada Moffitt is my 2nd great-grandmother, wife of Pinkney Elcanah Vess, daughter of Rev. James Ivy Moffitt and Nancy Murphy.
She was born in Missouri on March 31, 1873. It is my understanding that her father traveled for his work. Home for the Moffitt family was in McDowell County, North Carolina (BroadRiver Township).
On August 4, 1889, she married Pinkney Elcanah Vess, son of Andrew Logan Vess and Lucy Linnia Malinda Halford. Not much is known about Pinkney, except that he was a farmer. [Below: Pinkney is mentioned in local newspaper 1915].
They lived in McDowell County, NC and had 7 children together: Rev. Lennie Oran Vess, Rev. Arthur Lee Vess, James Elmer Vess, Emmett Flyod Vess, McKinley Vess, Marion Beverly Vess, and William Herman Vess.
Cora Nevada Moffitt died on December 2, 1933 in Old Fort, McDowell County, North Carolina and is buried beside her husband, Pinkney E. Vess in Old Fort City Cemetery.
Top Left: Marion Beverly Vess Right Top Right: James Elmer Vess Middle Left: Cora Moffitt (children not named) Middle Right: James Elmer Vess “dad Vess” (cannot make out other names) Bottom Right: Rev. James Ivy Moffitt (Cora’s father)
*Photos colorized be author
The Moffitt/Maffitt Story
A publication on Ancestry.com titled, A Letter To Emily and John Maffitt, written by Richard Bird Maffitt, the son of John Moffitt and Matilda Bird, provides us some history about the Moffitt / Maffitt family. Because it is difficult to follow who-is-who in the letter, I will summarize by using Cora Nevada Moffitt as a point of reference on the family history tree; as well, as include additional information I have discovered about the Moffitt family.
John Maffitt (Moffitt) and Sarah Donahue, Cora’s 2nd great-grandparents, came to America before the Revolutionary War from Donegal, Ireland. They had two sons, William and John. Our family descends from John Maffitt (Jr.).
Richard Maffitt writes that John Maffitt Jr. was an indentured servant for General Davidson (Burke County) until he was 21 years old, learning the “art” of tanning. General Samuel Davidson and Benjamin Burgin were prominent land-owners at the time.
John Maffitt Jr. married Sarah Whitaker (Cora’s great-grandparents). Sarah Whitaker’s father was a Whig and a solider of the Revolutionary War. Sarah went to live with General Davidson after her mother had died and her father’s property was destroyed by tories. After John fulfilled his indentured servant contract, they got married and moved to what is now McDowell County, North Carolina.
They had 9 children together: John Maffitt who married Matilda Bird Mary Maffitt who married Thomas Curtis James Maffitt who married Eleanor Mackey Elizabeth Maffitt (never married) Sarah Maffitt who married Curtis Saunders William Maffitt who married Elizabeth Eliza Bird (Cora’s grandparents) Abagail Maffitt (never married) Josiah Maffitt who married Sarah Huggins
A Letter To Emily and John Maffitt (Summary)
William Whitaker Maffitt and Elizabeth Eliza Bird
Cora’s grandparents are William Whitaker Maffitt (1795-1874) and Elizabeth Eliza Bird (1804-1885). Elizabeth’s father, Cora’s great-grandfather, Richard Bird, was a traveling Methodist minister.
Richard Bird Ancestry.com submitted by KarenByrd10
William Maffitt and Elizabeth Bird lived in McDowell County, North Carolina. From what I can tell, they had 16 children!
Rev. James Ivy Moffitt & Nancy Elizabeth Murphy
James Ivy Moffitt (1843-1921) and Nancy Elizabeth Murphy are Cora Nevada Moffitt’s parents. They lived in the BroadRiver Township (Buncombe County/ McDowell County). They were married on November 2, 1865 and had 9 children together:
Cicero Stuart Moffitt (1866-1946), Olive Antoinette Moffitt (1868-1898), Ulysses Sherman Moffitt (1877-1953, Cora Nevada Moffitt (1873-1933), Wilson Albert Moffitt (1874-1877), Nancy Elizabeth Moffitt (1877-1961), Gemma Alephair Moffitt (1881-1972), Gertrude Moffitt (1882-1928), and James Frederick Moffitt (1885-1906).
James Ivy Moffitt and Nancy Elizabeth Murphy divorced, with James leaving North Carolina for Texas. It is said that he didn’t want to divorce Nancy and that he tried to get her to come with him to Texas, but she refused (I don’t know if this is true or not).
Children of James Ivy Moffitt and Nancy Murphy
Top Left: Gemma Alephair Moffitt Top Right: Olive Antoinette Moffitt Middle Left: Cora Nevada Moffitt Middle Right: Cicero Stuart Moffitt Bottom Left: Ulysses Sherman Moffitt and wife, Harriett “Hattie” Bell Lydia Clubb
Big Jim Burgin and Gertrude Moffitt
James “Big Jim” Burgin married Gertrude Moffitt, daughter of James Ivy Moffitt (Cora’s sister).
He worked on the Mount Mitchell Railroad. I believe Gertrude’s nephew, James Elmer Vess, son of Pinkney E. Vess and Cora Moffitt, also worked on the Railroad with James Burgin.
James Burgin is related to the prominent Burgin family of North Carolina; distantly related to Pioneer Ben Burgin. The Burgin family not only had large tracts of land, but also held positions in local government.
The Murphy Family : William Albertus Murphy Stories
Nancy Elizabeth Murphy is Cora’s mother. Nancy’s parents are William Albertus Murphy and Zillah Owneby (Granny Duck), Cora’s grandparents. The Murphy family is connected to many well-known families in Vess Genealogy, such as Ledbetter, Owenby, Hodge, Searcy, Dalton, Elliott, and many, many, more. There is a publication on Ancestry.com, titled William Albert Bertus Murphy, in which I would like to share:
Interesting Story Between William and Zillah (Summary)
William Murphy and Zillah Owenby had an interesting beginning together.
Zillah Owenby and Squire Tom Ledbetter had a child together, but Ledbetter did not want to marry Zillah; so he paid William Albertus Murphy to marry her instead (abt. 1840). Zillah and William did not live together and William took a job as a stagecoach driver. As the story continues, he came back and opened a store in which Zillah and her daughter (Ledbetter’s child) appears to have visited often in which a true relationship started to form. After awhile, Zillah and William eventually moved in together (although already married).
Ancestry.com 3/7/2014 johnfbays William Albert Bertus Murphy
James “Jim” Westly Murphy (Summary)
During William Murphy’s time as a stagecoach driver, he got a woman pregnant by the named of Fagans. William brought the boy, named “Jim,” home with him for a visit when the boy was 12 years-old. The story continues that (Nancy) Fagans, came after her son, but her son refused to go back home with her. She had brought a man with her to help take back her son. She told the man to help her “tie” up her son. William stopped them from tying up the boy and told them, “Don’t you lay your hands on my SON, he can stay with me if he wants to!” The boys mother left without him and Jim took on his father’s surname: Murphy.
Ancestry.com 3/7/2014 johnfbays William Albert Bertus Murphy
The publication, William Albert Bertus Murphy, available on Ancestry.com, has a few more stories on it that I recommend you checking out!
Top Left: Nancy Murphy on the porch Top & Botton Right: Zillion “Granny Duck” Murphy (Ownby)
On Ancestry.com, you can find pictures of what is left of the house above.
This is only a tiny glimpse of some incredible family history. I can write about the Moffitt and Murphy families all day long! They are one of oldest families in McDowell County and a family with many other fascinating family connections!
Learning their family histories has helped me learn more about the other families in the area in which Peter and Catherine Vess once lived. Everyone seems to be related! Even if your Vess line has no direct connection to the Moffitt family, I bet if you dig deep enough, you’ll find that one is either a distant relative, close neighbor, or part of a family members story!
We’ve made a new significant discovery, but we need your help!
If you have completed an Autosomal DNA test through Ancestry or 23andMe, please help us by transferring your results for free to Familytreedna.com so that we can continue our research. If you need help completing the process or have any questions, please email vessgenealogy@gmail.com for assistance.
What Is Triangulation: Genetic Genealogy
Triangulation is a method used in genetic genealogy where segments of DNA are analyzed and compared between shared DNA matches. Those who share the same segments of DNA are likely to share a common ancestor and their family trees (and family histories) provide clues to help identify those common ancestors.
Recent Findings Via Triangulation: Rose-Sparks Connection
Vincent Vess is working on using triangulation methods to identify the parents of Peter Vess and Catherine Cook. His recent finds are super intriguing!
He analyzed segments of DNA of 3 different VESS descendants whose most recent common ancestors are Peter Vess and Catherine Cook. Each, different descendant, descends from a different son of Peter and Catherine [Andrew Logan, Jasper, and Josiah Vess]. The importance of having different descending lines from Peter and Catherine not only help confirm a solid Vess connection, but also helps in identifying early maternal lines (the parents of Catherine Cook).
He then triangulated one segment of DNA on the 5th Chromosome with other shared DNA matches who have public family trees. He discovered 4 matches who share the same segment of DNA as the 3 Vess descendants, yet none of those 4 matches have VESS in their family trees; suggesting all 7 matches share an earlier common ancestor prior to Peter and Catherine Cook.
Between the 4 matches, he discovered they share common connections with Emmanuel ROSE and Reuben SPARKS families in Wilkes County, North Carolina.
The connection between Rose and Sparks maybe recent, for that those names come up frequently as shared DNA matches in Ancestry for both Vincent and I (we suspect it will for other Vess families too).
Wilkes County Is Our Mark
Ever wonder about that War of 1812 record with Peter Vest listed on it?
A good portion of names listed have no records in Surry County. In fact, only 15 of them can be found on the 1810 census record, most having earlier land records, suggesting they were older soldiers. Most of the other names listed are younger soldiers who were not head of household yet in 1810 and many of them actually have later connections with Wilkes County. This is because Wilkes County was made from parts of Surry County in 1777 and a few names on the list (confirmed by maps) had their properties split by the county border. Although no longer part of Surry County, their close proximity to the border probably had them doing much of their business in Surry County, which explains why so many were drafted under Surry County rather than Wilkes County. Is this the case for Peter Vess?
North-Western North Carolina: Migration Routes Converged
Earlier ancestors of the names listed above have original land records issued by Rowan County, for that Rowan County once covered the western parts of North Carolina. When Surry County was formed, the portion of what will become Wilkes County was the District of Washington (but it only lasted a year). In 1777, Wilkes was created in between Surry County and Washington County (formerly District of Washington).
In 1784, the short-lived STATE OF FRANKLIN was formed, mixing records like a tossed salad with the formation of Wayne County (State of Franklin) in a good portion of Wilkes County.
This affected many families in the surrounding areas, especially, those living in Wilkes County.
Why is this important to Vess Genealogy? Because what we have discovered is that many families coming down the Great Wagon Road or those coming up from South Carolina into Tennessee, all converge in this area at one time or another. This was the area in which families traveled across the Cumberland Gap into Kentucky, into Tennessee, or down into the Carolinas.
Vincent Vess discovered the following names listed on a North Carolina, U.S. Census, 1784-1787 (Ancestry.com).
Samuel McQueen/Queen, John Sparks, Joshua Pennington, Richard Estes, William Sparks, Thomas Hodges, Agnis Nichols, Robert Whiteside, William Underwood, William Pennington, Jacob Nichols, Joseph Pruitt, Emmanuel Rose, John Turner, James Webb, Stephen Caudill, Roger Turner, William Hodges, James Caudill, Benjamin Rose, Timothy Buttery, John Rose Sr., Abraham Cook, Thomas Cook…
These names are extremely familiar to us as they are becoming more repetitive in our family research.
Also, included in this list of names is a William Vest, who we have not been able to identify his origins yet. Perhaps, he might have a connection with James Harvey Vest due to the presence of the Caudill family or maybe he is related to Peter Vest on the Surry County War of 1812 record?
Reuben Sparks and Emmanuel Rose
The 4 matches (as mentioned earlier) are connected to the Sparks and Rose families of Wilkes County.
Reuben Sparks and Emmanuel Rose are of the same generation as Peter and Catherine Cook, so a common ancestor would likely be someone prior to them.
These families are intriguing for a number of reasons, but one particular fact that interests us (or at least me) is that both families originated in Maryland, with the Sparks family having come from Frederick County, Maryland and the Rose family having come from Calvert County, Maryland. Note: Calvert is across from Dorchester County, Maryland (Travers family).
Following Geographical Features Rather Than Records
Fortunately, the father of Reuben Sparks, Solomon Sparks, has a lengthy recorded history. He first settled in Surry County when it was Rowan County, then his land was split between Surry and Wilkes County, making him a Wilkes County resident. We can easily track where the Sparks family have gone, for that notes are specific on the Rivers and Creeks in which the Sparks family resided on, making it much easier to locate records due to county changes.
We can use the geographical features mentioned in the genealogical notes provided by the Sparks family to reconstruct the community (like we did for the Tyger River community in SC) further identifying more families in the area that may offer more clues to Vess Genealogy.
Both Sparks and Rose families lived off the Yadkin River, something I look forward to further investigating.
Rose & Travers Family in Anson County, North Carolina
Emmanuel Rose may have a brother named Samuel Rose, who supposedly ended up in Anson County, North Carolina. He is found on the 1763 taxpayer record. Interestingly, so is John Travis (Travers).
John Travis, is supposedly the son of Dr. Edward Travers who came from Cork, Ireland. Also, we recently discovered a Charles Travers in Anson County, NC who may be the brother of John Travis (Travers). Research states John Travis ended up in Abbeville County, South Carolina; which is another place of interest in Vess Genealogy.
Is there a connection? I am interested in finding out!
Genetic Genealogy: The Door To Answers
Genetic genealogy helps us identify specific families that we share a common ancestor. By exploring these families, we can narrow down the genealogical search to specific geographical places.
We have genetic proof that our name changed, but we don’t exactly know when our name changed to VESS, making it very difficult to find early records. Identifying families we are closely related to can help us explore the areas they once lived, thus helping us look for evidience of families with names similar to Vess or Travers.
At this time, we have no genealogical proof of Catherines maiden name (is it really COOK?) nor Peter’s mother’s maiden name; so with more Autosomal DNA kits to analyze, compare, and triangulate, the more matches to family trees we can identify and further explore for answers to Vess Genealogy.
The Vess family came over to America with an O’Donnell and O’Neill. O’Neill was an outlaw, wanted by the English Crown. He changed his name to Mac Hugh or something referring to his red hair. The Vess family loved and respected him.
Descendant of David Andrew Vess
The O’Donnell Vess
On Ancestry.com, many family trees show the father of Peter Vess as O’Donnell Vess from Tyrone County, Ireland.
I had the opportunity to meet a descendant of David Andrew Vess who kindly shared with me the story of O’Donnell Vess, stating it to be a very important family story.
I’ve researched the O’Donnell-Vess connection extensively, but found no genealogical records to support a connection. So, who was this Mac Hugh our family so highly respected?
I did; however, discovered a true historical event regarding an O’Donnell and O’Neill family during the 16th century in Ulster, Northern Ireland.
“Red Hugh O’Donnell” is a real person from Donegal Ireland who was rivals against the O’Neill family from Tyrone, Ireland. Red Hugh was in-prisoned by an English Lord in Dublin Castle, but later escaped with the help of the O’Neill family. Unfortunately, neither of them came to America; however, this is a well known Irish story that Irish settlers would have most certainly brought to the new world. But why was this story so important us?
O’Donnell – O’Neill families fought a Nine Year War in Ireland together and is a very important part of Ireland history.
Because the O’Donnell and O’Neill family did not seem to have connections with America or any direct connections with the Vess family (that I can tell), I began searching for American outlaws. Perhaps, the family story was a mix of different people and events?
Interestingly, during the time of David Andrew Vess, there was a notorious American outlaw who was highly respected by the residents in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. The Dark Corners included Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina where the Bellew and Gosnell families were well established; and David Andrew Vess married Magnolia Gosnell. The outlaws name was Lewis Redmond.
Again, I was unable to find a direct connection with the Vess family. Perhaps the family story…is just a story.
The Mysterious Hodge-Vess Connection
The story of the man named after his red-hair that the Vess family highly respected was something I forgot about until just recently, when I stumbled upon John “Red Head” Hodge.
The HODGE (HOGE) name has come up in discussion several times over the past year between me and the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, but we just don’t know how they fit into Vess Genealogy.
The Willis and Peter Vess lines appear to match closely with a HODGE family, but their connection is unknown.
Vincent Vess, who had researched the Hodge family much more extensively than I, had pointed out that there is a Hodge family living near the Vess family in White County, Tennessee.
Further research reveals that this Hodge family comes from Franklin County, Virginia (once part of Patrick-County, VA). I discovered that Robert Hodge, father of Abner Hodge (above) was living in a place called Chestnut Creek, about 30 miles away from William Vess/Voss & Peter Vess on Koger Creek in Patrick County, VA!
According to information provided to me from the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, we match closely with the descendants of Isham Hodge, Abner’s brother. However, we have yet to discover a connection.
Supposedly, Isham and Abner Hodge have a brother whose name is John “Red Head” Hodge. Is this the man named for his red hair that the Vess family highly respected???
John “Red Head” Hodge- Research In Progress
I’m still researching John “Red Head” Hodge.
There are numerous John Hodges (of course, with a name like John), but right now, my focus is on two of them:
The first one that caught my attention is a John “Red Head” Hodge , brother of Isham Hodge, who supposedly married Lucy Elizabeth Dalton, daughter of David Dalton Sr. of Rutherford County, NC.
Lucy Elizabeth Dalton is the sister of Nancy (Sally) Dalton, grandmother of Lucy Malinda Linnia Halford, wife of Andrew Logan Vess! However, other family trees, state she married Reuben Searcy instead (perhaps she married both). So, who is this Lucea Dalton and John Hodges in Franklin County, VA and is this John, in fact, John “Red Head” Hodge?
I mean, it would make sense considering the Vess and Dalton families have known each other for what seems like forever!
There is another John Hodge that some on Ancestry refer to as “Red Head” Hodge, but he resides in Abbeville, South Carolina and married Frances Anderson. According to other genealogy websites that provide more ancestral history, he was known as “Major” Hodge, for having served in the Revolutionary War. I am not sure if he is actually “Red Head” Hodge, but his presence in Abbeville is intriguing.
I wish I had more to share, but at this time, I am still researching.
Well folks, the plot in Vess genealogy thickens! Dun…Dun…DUN!! Are you ready!!!
The Travers and Vess families appear to be one family!
Awaiting Nail-Biting Seat-Clinching Results
Results from Big-Y tests are remarkably fascinating and invaluable to Family DNA projects, as they have the potential to shake up the ancestral tree with the equivalent force of an 8.0-magnitude earthquake! In short, big changes can occur, rewriting family history!
We’ve been anxiously waiting test results for a Big-Y-tester whose Travers family line connects to the early Travers families in Cork, Ireland.
Although it has been highly suspected that the Travers families of Lancashire, England and the Travers families of Cork, Ireland are related, there has been no genealogical evidence (records) to prove it.
Travers families from both Lancashire, England and Cork, Ireland migrated to America during the late 1600’s; but again, there is no genealogical evidence (or DNA evidence) to prove these two Travers families are of the same lineage. Those from Lancashire, England, settled in Dorchester, Maryland and those from Cork, Ireland settled in areas around Pasquotank, North Carolina.
For the Travers family, a genetic connection between the two geographically distant Travers families (England and Ireland) would be a great new discovery!
For the Vess family, it may provide more answers to our mysterious connection with the Travers family and possibly revealing our true origins!
The TRAVERS/VESS Branch
The Big-Y test assigned the new Travers line (with Ireland connections) to R-CTS11317, which is an English/Scottish branch consisting of the Travers and Vess families.
DNA results strongly suggest (without a doubt) that the TRAVERS and VESS families are one family. Not only is our Vess family genetically related to numerous Travers families from England, but also now a Travers family line from Cork, Ireland!
These DNA results are exciting for everyone! For the Travers family, this opens the door to further explore more early Ireland – England family connections. With more Y-testers, researchers may be able to determine (approximately) when the Ireland lines split from England. For the Vess family, this opens the door to explore Travers genealogy for clues to our “Vess” origins. With more Y-testers, we may be able to identify our direct Travers-Vess line!
DNA results also strongly suggest the Travers and Vess families may have a Norman connection, which is further supported by research published by Albert E. Casey, titled: “Southern Travis, Travers, Traverse families from Lancashire and post-Elizabethan Ireland.” According to Casey, the Travers family is an old Norman family name that settled in Lancashire, England when William the Conquerer invaded England in 1066.
English / Scottish Branch: Travers-Vess branch boxed in yellow
Unfortunately, the newly added Travers line with Ireland connections did not provide any further information about the Travers-Vess lines in America; most likely, because this particular Travers line did not go to America. The ancestral split between the Vess family and this particular Travers line has not been determined yet.
When it comes to looking at the Travers and Vess families in America, DNA data does reveal that the Vess family (descendants of Peter and Willis Vess) split from the Travers of Dorchester, Maryland sometime prior to 1665 in England/Scotland. This means, the Vess families of Rutherford County, North Carolina and Franklin County, Alabama did not directly descend from the Travers families from Maryland in America; but instead, the Vess family most likely broke off from a different unknown Travers line. Whether that ancestral split occurred in America or across the Atlantic, is still yet to be known.
Y-DNA Testing For Vess Families Is Important
Even though it appears the Vess family surname is relatively “young,” in comparison to the Travers surname that appears to date back to William the Conquerer, it is still important for Vess families to do more Y-DNA testing as there is so much we do not know about our family’s early history in America.
There is no available Y-DNA data for Nathaniel and Jonathan Vess yet; however, such testing would most likely provide fascinating results! It’s been highly suspected that Nathaniel and Jonathan Vess are related, but there is no genealogical evidence (records) to prove it and because they lived over 200+ years ago, Autosomal DNA tests will eventually (sooner rather than later) no longer be able to detect shared DNA relatives.
Y-DNA testing from descendants of the Nathaniel and Jonathan Vess lines will not only help us better understand their connection to each other, but also to other Vess lines in America. At this time, we aren’t even sure if they are related to Peter and Willis Vess or if they too have a genetic connection with the Travers family.
In addition to Nathaniel and Jonathan Vess, we also have other Vess lines to explore, such as the Vess family in Ohio who are descendants of Hiram Vess of Rockbridge County, Virginia. At this time, we do not know the origins of the Vess family in Rockbridge County, Virginia. Are they related to the Travers family too OR are they related to another family with a similar surname: VOSS, VASS, VICE, or VEST.
Although Peter and Willis Vess did not split from the Travers family from Maryland directly, could there be another Vess line that did who we have yet to discover?
Y-DNA testing from descendants with the Travers, Travis, Traverse, Vess, Voss, and Vass names still have so much to tell us!
Vess Origin Story Historically AccurateAfter All?
Interestingly, Y-DNA data is beginning to prove our Vess family origin story as somewhat historically accurate!
According to the Vess family origin story, the Vess family descends from three brothers from Ireland. One version told, specifically states it was “Cork,” Ireland. Also, as if universally accepted as family fact, the Vess name is not our original surname. Some say it was once pronounced as “Voss” whereas others say it was shortened or completely changed.
This is incredibly fascinating, especially, as there are genealogical records for the Travers family in America under the surname “TRAVESS.” TRA-VESS (or perhaps once pronounced as TRAVOSS) eventually evolved into the surname TRAVIS. We have found that the South Carolina TRAVIS families to be connected to the TRAVERS families in North Carolina who came from Cork, Ireland.
This has lead some Vess family researchers to wonder, if the VESS surname was formed in America rather than across the Atlantic? And, if more Travers families test, will we find an ancestral split between the Travers and Vess families, perhaps along the Cork, Ireland Travers line?
It’s only a matter of time, before the mysteries of our Vess family’s history are finally revealed!
This summary of recent Y-DNA updates is based on information available on familytreedna.com and information kindly provided by Michael Travers, co-admin of the Vess Family DNA Project. Thank you Mike!! 🙂
The Vess family has a close genetic relationship with the Travers family from Lancashire, England; however, at this time, we do not have enough Y-DNA testers to determine whether we are close cousins or a branch of the TRAVERS family who veered off with a different surname (VESS). Y-DNA testing and genealogical records has revealed some insightful information that greatly warrants more Y-Testers and genealogical research.
Y-DNA: Travers & Vess Families
Y-DNA analysis reveals that the Vess and Travers families are closely related. Unfortunately, our testing pool is small; Y-Testers include a couple of descendants from the Peter Vess line, one descendant from the Willis Vess line, and two descendants of the Travers line from England who are related to the Travers family in Dorchester, Maryland, USA. We do not have any Y-Testers yet from the Nathaniel Vess line (South Carolina) or the Jonathan Vess line (Texas); however, autosomal DNA suggests a distant relationship.
Vess Family DNA Project
Last year, the VESS and TRAVERS families were assigned into the same group CTS11317; then one of the Vess Y-testers (Peter’s line) completed the Big-Y Test, which broke it down further, re-assigning the VESS family their own sub-group R-FT19517. This suggests the two families may have split sometime prior to 1665 in England.
Haplogroup Tree YP4131
A Possible Connection With A Travers Family From Ireland?
What we know for certain, based on available Y-DNA information, is that the VESS family did not split from the TRAVERS line who settled in Dorchester, Maryland, USA. Our ancestral split from their particular line occurred in England before they immigrated to America. But, they were not the only Travers family to immigrate to America…
This finding is intriguing, for that their documented history is remarkably similar to the Vess family story about three brothers from Ireland. In one version of the Vess family story, it specifically mentions the three brothers having come from “Cork, Ireland.”
Furthermore, the TRAVERS surname for this particular line in America evolved into TRAVIS, with a couple of records discovered with the surname spelling of TRAVESS. This is also an intriguing find, considering that the VESS family had always been told that the VESS name is not their original surname. It is believed that their original surname was “shortened,” and/or was pronounced as “VOSS.”
If we consider thick accents of the time, the name TRAVIS could have easily been heard as “TRAVOSS,” and it is entirely plausible that overtime the “TRA” was eventually dropped, just leaving VOSS, which could have easily evolved into VESS. As records show, the “VESS” name didn’t exactly take hold (record-wise) until the 1830’s, and prior to that, it was a mix of VEST and VOSS, perhaps even VASS, likely due to terrible handwriting where the “e,” “o,” and “a” were difficult to tell apart. This would also explain why we see a pocket of VOSS/VASS families near the TRAVERS/TRAVIS families in North Carolina.
According to The Vaulx Family of England, Virginia, and Maryland, it is believed that the VASS families of Virginia /North Carolina “maybe” related to the VAUX family of Virginia (descendants of the Norman De Vallibus family), but there is no solid evidence to confirm such a connection, since there is no record on where the VASS/VOSS families of Virginia/North Carolina originated from across the Atlantic. Perhaps, some of the VASS/VOSS families have a surname that may have evolved from the TRAVERS line??
Although this information is intriguing and very favorable towards the mysterious origins of the VESS family, we do not have any solid evidence to make any final concrete conclusions.
Investigating The Travers Family In The Carolinas
We have only just begun researching the Travers family of North and South Carolina. We know there is a Francis Travers (sometimes Travis) of Tyron County, North Carolina who had land in the modern-day Spartanburg County, SC area in the 1760’s. He descends from the Travers family from Ireland.
Just recently, we discovered a pocket of Travers who are connected to Abbeville, SC, which is intriguing, for that we have an unknown VESS family in the same area in 1850. The Travers family from Ireland have earlier connections in Pasquotank, Pitt, and Beaufort counties in North Carolina. Interestingly, near these areas, we also have the Voss/Vass families whose origins, like the Vess family, are also undetermined.
Further investigation is needed.
Y-Testers NEEDED: Participant Info
To further unravel the mysterious connection between the VESS and TRAVERS family, we need more DNA participants.
We encourage EVERYONE to join the VESS Family DNA Project via FamilyTreeDNA.com.Autosomal DNA tests (from both male and female participants) helps us identify new Vess family lines and has the potential to help us locate genealogical records to make more family connections. Y-DNA tests from male participants from various family lines can help us further understand the connection between the VESS & TRAVERS family. Are we cousins or direct descendants of the same family?
Interested in testing? Please visit the Vess Family DNA Project to contact co-admins for more information or email vessgenealogy@gmail.com
TRANSFER FOR FREE: If you have already completed an autosomal DNA test or Y-DNA test from another company, you may have the option to transfer your data to FamilytreeDNA.com. Transfers are free with a FamilytreeDNA.com account; however, there is a $19 fee, if you wish to access more account tools. This is much cheaper than opening an account by having to order a new DNA test. Please check out this post for more information and instructions about transferring data to FamilytreeDNA.com.
Y-TESTERS NEEDED:
We need more Y-Testers from various family lines: Willis Vess line, Nathaniel Vess line, Travers/ Travis Carolina lines, and VOSS, VAULX, VASS, family lines. There are three Y-DNA tests available:
The Y-37 test helps us identify new Vess/Travers lines. The Y-111 test helps us identify families closely related to us. The Big-Y helps us further understand ancestral splits between closely related families.
Big – Y Testers Needed
We are seeking more Big-Y Testers, specifically from the Willis Vess line and Travers/Travis North & South Carolina line. Participants need to be male and have either the VESS, TRAVERS, TRAVIS surname. For more information about the Big-Y and pricing, please contact Michael Travers or Vincent Vess; contact info is available on the Vess Family DNA Project website.
This is a long post, but I assure you it is worth the read…
Friendly Reminder: The opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.
Tangled DNA Matches
Genetic genealogy is a great tool in locating stuborn early ancestors; however, the colossal challenge of analyzing autosomal DNA is that it is limited to only 6-8 generations.
For me, my autosomal DNA largely captures descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Lucy Malinda Halford (my 3rd great grandparents – 6th generation). It also detects a good portion of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Cinthia Conner, because we share a good deal of DNA from Andrew Logan Vess.
As we move over on the Vess family tree to the siblings of Andrew Logan Vess (John, Josiah, Alfred, etc.), those matches are more distant as they are barely detectable with <1% DNA match. Interestingly though, comparing the number of shared DNA segments (cM), I match closer to descendants of Willis Vess than I do to the descendants of Nathan Vess, sometimes more closely than the siblings of Andrew Logan Vess! This, in my opinion, likely has A LOT to do with my mother’s deep roots in South Carolina and Georgia.
It is extremely difficult to pry apart my parents shared southern DNA matches. My mother matches with ALL the descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Lucy Malinda “Linnia” Halford (the bulk of my shared Vess matches) on my father’s side, because Linnia Halford’s mother, Sarah Jane “Lollie” HILL, is a descendant of William Augustus Hill, my mother’s 7th great-grandfather. To make matters worse, the Halford and Hill families lived next to each other on Knobs Creek in Rutherford County, North Carolina, mingling with so many families connected to the Vess family!
Thomas J. Halford & Sarah Jane “Lollie” Hill Rutherford County, North Carolina
My mother’s Hill line eventually settled in Anderson, Abbeville County, South Carolina, which just so happens to be a hot spot where many families of interest seem to have converged at one point or another. One HILL ancestor of mine, found his way to Greenville, South Carolina and connected with a BENTLEY from Georgia, opening the flood gates to even more deeper roots in the South.
With this, my mother seems to shares DNA matches with many southern families, including the Nathaniel Vice family (via a Turley connection) that migrated to Alabama as they passed through Georgia.
Interestingly, my mother does not share DNA matches with descendants of REUBEN VICE of South Carolina, who is the son of John Vice and Frances Roebuck. She also does not share DNA matches with VICE families in Kentucky who are likely connected to Nathaniel Vice II (brother of John Vice of South Carolina). This is interesting, because if she doesn’t share those matches, it is likely a connection on my VESS line.
How do I know it’s not a connection on my parents maternal lines? DNA matches suggest a connection within 6-8 generations back, which would greatly eliminated my parents maternal sides who arrived late to the United States and had very little connection with the south. My father’s maternal side arrived in Ohio in 1894 from Austria and my mother’s maternal side arrived in Michigan in 1948 from England. When looking at shared matches, it is easy to identify and eliminate leads connected to my parents maternal sides.
Exploring Sarah A. Vess & Vardry McBee Connection
Vincent Vess, co-admin of the Vess Family DNA Project, has made an interesting discovery analyzing his own autosomomal DNA.
He discovered a shared DNA match with a Vess descendant of Alabama and a descendant of Sarah A. Vess and Vardry “Nodsed” McBEE; Sarah being the daughter of Jonathan Vess and Elizabeth Heron in Jackson County, Texas.
If the name Vardry McBeesounds oddly familiar, that is because it is a name often seen on many records in North Carolina. According to the Biographical Information section of McBEE Family Papers, Captain Vardry McBee was a constable in 1770 in Tryon County, North Carolina. His son, Vardry McBee Jr., later became a court clerk in Lincoln County, North Carolina in 1812.
The name “Vardry” is used numerous times throughout their family tree. Vardry “Nodsed” McBee, husband of Sarah Ann Vess, being one of them.
Vardry “Nodsed” McBee descends from Captain Vardry McBee (1734) and Hannah ECHOLS from Virginia via Silas Echols McBee Sr. (1765) who is the older brother of Vardry McBee Jr (1775), court clerk of Lincoln County, NC.
Unfortunately, not much is mentioned about Silas Echols McBee Sr. (1765) who appears to have settled in Kentucky. However, according to South Carolina Digital Records, there is a 1785 land record for Silas McBee, next to Vardry McBee (I assume his father-Sr.) on Thickety Creek in the 96th District of South Carolina. [Located North of the Pool and Pettit families] According to Revolutionary War Rosters, Silas and Vardry McBee served under Col. Roebuck (related to Francis Roebuck, wife of John Vice).
We do know that John Vice also had family in Kentucky via Nathaniel Vice II; however, very little is known about them.
Peter White of Texas – Discovery of Henry Vice of Virginia
When Jonathan Vess of Texas died, Elizabeth Heron married Peter White.
Peter White was born in Virginia (1801) to Shadrick White and Sarah Gibson. According to the Annuals of Soutwest Virginia 1769-1800 (pg. 1252), Shadrick was living in an area on or near “Madien Spring Fork Clinch River,” which is located in Tazewell County, VA near the North Fork Holston River.
*Note: Jonathan Vess and Peter White are both listed in Stephen F. Austins Register of Families, both having traveled from Missouri.
I decided to check for VICE families in and around the area and surprisingly, I discovered Henry VICE, living on South Fork Holston River, less than 50 miles away from the White family. Unfortunately, I do not know if Henry Vice is related to John and Nathaniel Vice, however, further research suggests there may be a connection.
1792: Henry Vice joins land with John Vaught and and Jarvis Smyth 1803: Henry Vice adds 60 acres to his own land 1803: Henry Vice joins land with Alexander Campbell and Crockett family 1806: Joseph Williams joins land with Henry Vice
County Boundaries Notes: Although records for Henry Vice state Wythe County, the South Fork of Holston River is not in Wythe County. It begins in modern day Smyth County and flows through Washington County. Wythe County used to cover parts of Smyth and Washington County prior to 1792. Wythe County also included modern day Tazewell County and extended all the way to Patrick County. Residents in the Holston River area are likely to have records under several different counties.
James Harvey Vest
A few months back I gained an interest in James Harvey Vest (1838) from Patrick County, VA. I noticed the name was on a list of Y-DNA results next to Willis Vess; however, it was explained to me that they are not related to each other, but curiously, neither of them are related to the VEST family of Virginia.
I reached out to W. Langdon, whose family has done extensive research on James Harvey Vest. With their help, I was able to check for shared DNA matches between our families and it turns out that my aunt (via her Vess line) does share a DNA match with a descendant of James Harvey Vest with two interesting families on their family tree: CAUDILL and VESSE (specifically Ephremia Vesse).
We could be connected through our family’s COX line (Pearl Cox), for that the COX and CAUDILL families were close together in Wilkes County, North Carolina. Interestingly, this was during a time when a William Vess was there.
I’ve seen Ephremia Vesse on many trees of shared DNA matches. She is the daughter of John “Vessey” and married Partick Conyngham (Cunningham). The interesting part is that sources say she died in Augusta County, Virginia. A place we have found shared DNA matches among the descendants of Willis and Peter Vess with a descendant of an early Logan family living in Augusta County, near the VESS/VEST family of Rockbridge County, VA. [I will share those findings in a different post, as I have found more pockets of VESS/VEST/ VICE families all along the western counties of Virginia]
CAUDILL and VESSE are also interesting, for that the VICE family supposedly descends from a VESSEY in Frederick County, VA and according to Appalachian Home website, CAUDILL and VICE families are listed as “Allied families.” What is the connection though?
In 1850, James Harvey Vest (1838) and his sister Nancy Vest were in Tazewell County, Virginia. His sister Nancy, married Joseph White, who I believe is related to the same White family as Peter White and her marriage record states she was born in Patrick County, VA and that her father is “Henry VOSS” and “Mary” (no last name). According to public trees on Ancestry.com, Mary may have a connection to the Caudle family. Could James Harvey Vest be related to Henry Vice?
But, it gets even more interesting…
James Heron: Holston River
I looked at land records for the Holston River area and discovered James Heron. Not only did he have land on the South Fork of the Holston River (like Henry Vice), but also on all the Forks of the Holston River, including the North Fork near the White family.
I can’t help but wonder,is this the same James Heron we see on the Patrick County, VA Deed Records 1791-1801 on Bull Mountain and Koger Creek with William Vess/Voss? Is this James Heron related to Elizabeth Heron, wife of Jonathan Vess of Texas?
The Genealogy Monkey Wrench: Y-DNA
I hate busting bubbles, but James Harvey Vest does not appear to be genetically related to our Vess family. Although we do share the same parent Haplogroup (R), our lineages separated thousands of years ago into R1a and R1b subgroups. Our Vess family branches from R1a, whereas James Harvey Vest branches from R1b. Yet, curiously, genealogical records strongly suggest that both our families may have a connection with the Vice family.
Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, there is no available information regarding Y-DNA testing for the VICE family.
But, there is a slight glimmer of hope for a connection, for that our VESS family is mysteriously closely related to the Travers family. So, in theory, it is still plausible that there could be a connection to all these families, perhaps through a half-sibling somewhere.
Quick Recap:
Genealogical records suggest a connection between the VESS and VICE families.
There appears to be a distant connection between an Alabama Vess and a descendant of Jonathan Vess of Texas (via Sarah A. Vess and Vardry McBee).
McBee family has history in North Carolina.
Elizabeth Heron married Peter White after the death of Johnathan Vess. The White family is from Tazewell County, Virginia.
Henry Vice (relation to John Vice family unknown) has land in the Holston River area near the White family.
Research strongly suggests that James Harvey Vest from Partick County, Virginia living in Tazewell County, VA in 1850, may have a connection with the Vice family too.
A marriage record for James Harvey Vest’s sister states their father is “Henry Voss.”
James HERON also has land in the Holston River area. Interestingly, we see the name James HERON with William VESS/VOSS on Bull Mountain and Koger Creek in Patrick County, VA deed records 1791-1801. Is this the same James Heron?
Jonathan Vess and Elizabeth Heron were married in Patrick County, VA.
Further research and autosomal DNA analysis suggests a Vess connection with early VICE families in Virginia and records have revealed more pockets of VESS/VEST/VOSS/VICE families throughout the western counties of Virginia.
Let’s start in Patrick He was born in Virginia, 1779 and married Elizabeth Heron in 1791, in Patrick County, Virginia. We have discovered a William Vess/Vest in Patrick County, Virginia living near the Heron family (Patrick County deed records). This is either Jonathan William Vess himself or perhaps his father.
In the mid-1820’s him and his wife, Elizabeth Heron, traveled to Missouri and then down to the Republic of Texas with Stephen F. Austin. In 1831, Jonathan received land from the Mexican government and gave a portion of his land to build the town of Morales, TX (a ghost-town today with a history of outlaws).
John died in 1846. His daughter, Mary Lorena Vess, married Samuel McCulloch Jr., who was a free-slave, famously known for fighting in the Texas Revolution.
Although the VESS/VEST family of Patrick County, Virginia (1790-1801) are extremely intriguing and seem like a promising connection, I am drawn back to the Dark Corners of South Carolina. I decided to take another look at Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess. Looking at all my research, I have come to realize that the early families surrounding them, all came from South Carolina.
Peter: Pettit and Toney families. Willis: Nichols, Willis, Askews, Whitlock families (many more) Nathan: Bellew and Gosnell families
Of course, these families all have different origin-origins, like the Pettit family come from New Jersey, the Gosnell family come from Maryland, and the Nichols, Willis, Askews (Eskews) and Whitlock families come from Virginia; but all of them, just before they appear with our earliest known Vess ancestors (Peter, Willis, and Nathan) … were all in South Carolina; more specifically, the Tyger River area.
Tyger River Area: South Carolina’s Complicated Borders
The western portion of South Carolina has a complicated history with very messy borders, making it a nightmare to find family records. For instance, between 1769-1779, Tryon County, North Carolina and the Ninety-Six District in South Carolina overlap. Some residents in this area were issued land from the State of North Carolina while others were issued land from the state of South Carolina.
The Vice Family
I’ve looked for families with similar surnames to VESS in South Carolina a zillion times, but apparently, I overlooked the VICE family.
On the 1810 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I found a John Vice next to Nancy Poole. Nancy Poole reminds me of Nancy Pool, sister of Mary Ann Pool, who married Henry Pettit Sr (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess).
So, I searched the name “John Vice” in the South Carolina Digital Archives. One record of interest is a land record dated 1824 for Benjamin Nicholls on Thomsons Branch along the Tyger River. It includes familiar families such as Duncan, Moore, Nicholls, Pettit, and Willis.
Clearly intrigued, I began to research further…
Many early families are well documented by family historians and generally, with a few odd-ball keywords, a good chunk of their history can be found via Google. I was fortunate to find information pertaining to the VICE family on a Turley Family website.
Who Is John Vice
Land records show that the Vice family has been in the Tyger River community as early as 1782 and numerous sources say some members of the Vice family moved to Benton (now Calhoun) county, Alabama.
Research tells us that John Vice was born in Orange County, Virginia about 1755 and died in Spartanburg County, South Carolina in 1833. He is the son of Nathaniel Camp Vice (1730-1802) of Frederick County, Virginia.
Nathaniel Camp Vice is supposedly the son of Robert or John VESSEY of Frederick County, Virginia; however, the origins of VESSEY are not clear. Nathaniel Camp Vice migrated south and settled in Campbell County, Kentucky with many of his descendants rooting in Bath County, Kentucky.
Nathaniel’s son, John Vice (some note his name as John William Vice), married Frances Roebuck in 1773 in Chatham County, North Carolina, before settling in Spartanburg County, South Carolina. According to the Turley Family website, they had 10 children:
John Roebuck Vise abt. 1774
Nathaniel Vise abt. 1774 and married Dorcas MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Rhoda Vise abt. 1776 and married Peter LAWRENCE.
Levi Vise abt. 1778
George Vise abt. 1780 and married Elizabeth WALKER.
Reuben Vise 1782
Eliphous Hosea “Eli” Vise abt. 1785 and married Rebecca MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Elizabeth Vise 1787 in Spartanburg , SC and married Thomas WRIGHT.
Azariah “Zery” Vise abt. 1790
Jeremiah “Jere” Vise about 1790
Abner Vise about 1792 and married Lucinda PREWITT.
Jemima Vise about 1792
A Tyger River Baptist Church Connection
The Turley family website states: “John Vise and Frances Roebuck Vise were members of the Tyger River Baptist Church, also called Friendship Church. On the membership roll for 1801-1803…”
This is an incredible find, for that the Tyger River Baptist Church was part of the same church association as Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. We also know that the Pettit family were also members of the Tyger River Baptist Church.
According to history.ky.gov, the location of the Tyger River Baptist Church is unknown however is said to have been located in the northern portion of Greenville County, close to the North Carolina border. This would ideally put the church very close to the Glassy Mountain community and the communities along the Pacelot River (North and South Carolina border in modern day Polk County) where we find many early families from Tryon County (like the Logan family).
I bet there are a lot of interesting families listed as members on the Tyger River Baptist Church Membership Rolls; unfortunately, these records do not appear to be available online nor are they physically available near me.
Census Records: Spartanburg County, South Carolina
On the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families: 1. Boston Best 2. Henry Pattit (Pettit) 3. Joshua Pattit (Pettit) 4. John Wice (Vice)
A few pages over, you will find the following families: 1. Abraham Belue (Bellew) 2. Joshua Gosnell
*The Bise families on the 1790 census might actually be part of the Vise family.
On the 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families interestingly close together: Nat Vice (Nathaniel Vice, John Vice son) John Willis Richard Willis (find him on land records with Vice family)
DNA Connections
Autosomal DNA Results For me, many of the names on the VICE family tree frequently show up in my DNA relatives list, especially via the Turley, McPherson, and White families.
Even more interestingly, I have a long list of distant DNA relatives with family trees showing them as descendants of the VICE family and not just through one VICE family line, but numerous VICE family lines. Most are via John and Nathaniel Vice (sons of John and France Roebuck Vice of South Carolina) and others are from several different descending lines (sons and daughters) from Nathaniel Camp Vice in Kentucky. And, to make it even more interesting, they share DNA relatives with DNA relatives who are descendants on the Willis Vess line.
Pettit – Vice Connection The granddaughter of John Vice married Benjamin Pettit who is related to Henry Pettit Sr. (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess) through Joshua Pettit.
John Vice and Henry Pettit have a common neighbor: Andrew Thomson. *Correction: Andrew Thomson maybe the surveyor. 1. 1784 land record: Pacelot River / Ninety-six District Henry Pettit, William Pool, and Andrew Thomson 2. 1786 land record: Tyger River / Ninety-six District John Vise, Andrew Thomson, John Oshields, Joel Hembree, David Grimes, John Butler *Pettit and Hembree families are related.
The Next Chapter: Vice Family
I am really excited about discovering the Vice family! Not only do they have a similar surname to VESS, but they are also in the right place at the right time, surrounded by many familiar families that connect with Peter, Willis, and Nathan!
Also, because the Vice family is supposedly from Frederick County, Virginia, there is still a chance for a possible connection with the Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia! So, I am extremely excited!! This could be our family’s missing link OR I am embarking upon another goose-chase!
While investigating Willis Vess, I may have found my way back to the Patrick County, VA Vess/Vest family!
My game plan to try to uncover the origins of the Alabama Vess family include looking at maps, neighbors, spouses, genealogy records (census, land, probate, etc), and the history of Alabama.
Investigating Land Records
Franklin County, Alabama was first established in 1818, before Alabama became a state (December 14, 1819). Records of early settlers of northern portions of Alabama may be found in the Mississippi Territory records. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any records of interest.
The earliest record I’ve found on Willis Vess is an 1830 census record for Franklin County, Alabama. However, he is listed as being between the ages of 30-40, living with two females between the ages of 15-30. This does not appear to match the timeline reported on family trees. Also, he is 10 years younger in the 1840 census (listed as being between the ages of 20-30). Census records are notorious for their mistakes.
Interestingly, on the 1830 census record, I do recognize two familiar family names next to Willis Vess: SUGG and THARP.
Willis Vess lived near both of them and the Sugg family has records as early as 1819. In fact, despite the 1820 Alabama census record being supposedly incomplete, it does contain some families from the Foxtrap area [THARP, SUGG, MATLOCK, THOMPSON, and DEBOIS].
Littleberry Matlock is shown on the Alabama Genweb plat map, living next to Willis Vess. Further research reveals that he married Phoebe Tharp whose father is Robert Tharp (1820 censusabove) and supposedly (not confirmed yet) her mother is a Thompson from Rutherford County, North Carolina. Interesting!
After 1830, we believe Willis Vess married Talitha Whitlock; unfortunately, I have not been able to find a marriage record. However, we do know a lot about the Whitlock family due to extensive research by Anna Popejoy and published works by the Whitlock Newsletter via Google. The Whitlock family arrived in Alabama in 1820 and lived in an area referred to as Saints cross (which is near Foxtrap). I figure this may be how Willis Vess and Talitha Whitlock met each other.
The oldest children of Willis and Talitha Vess married into the Willis family, which may suggest the Vess and Willis families were close (they were close neighbors shown on the map below) and it is believed that the Willis family may have connections with the parents of Willis Vess (no evidence yet).
I do not know when the Willis family arrived in Franklin Alabama, however, both John Willis and Willis Vess appear on the 1830 census record (several pages apart).
Looking at the President’s name on their undated land records for Franklin County, Alabama, it appears that John Willis purchased land near the Foxtrap area before Willis Vess. John Willis’ record [No. 5972] was signed by Andrew Jackson who was President between 1829-1837 and Willis Vess’ record [No. 8737] was signed by Martin Van Buren who was President between 1837-1841.
The map below (looking at surrounding families) seem to have been something that was put together sometime after the 1850’s. The earliest known neighbor near Willis Vess is James Dubois [No. 8705, also issued in 1837] who is seen on the 1820 census record (above). The land record for John Willis signed by Present Andrew Jackson is not dated, but was likely issued between 1829-1837 and land records No. 19711 and 19712 was signed between 1857-1861 when James Buchanan was President. Unfortunately, nothing seems to reveal any clues about the Vess family prior to 1830.
Willis Vess appears to have owned several properties in the Foxtrap area.
I found 3 land records for Willis Vess: No. 8737 August 5, 1837 No. 20457 & 20252 April 2, 1857*No. 20451 & 20452 on map (above) No. 25798 March 1, 1858 (William Vess as heir) *No. 25797 on map (above)
Who is William Vess? None of the family trees I have come across for Willis Vess have a William Vess on them, so I am not entirely sure who he is; however, it certainly makes my next discovery extremely intriguing…
1846 Tennessee Record: Peter, Willis, William Vess/ Vest
There is one Willis Vess record that intrigues me the most and it is a land record for White County, Tennessee (1846) on Caney Fork.
Willis Vess of White County, Tennessee, appears to have 2 land records for a property on Caney Fork: No. 2012 dated 1831 No. 9156 (addition to No. 2012) dated 1849
The property interestingly joins Daniel Dotson (Dodson).
Looking at census records, I do not see a Willis Vess; however, there is an 1820 and 1830 census record for Peter Vest, whose neighbor is Daniel Dotson (Dodson).
In addition, there is also a William Vess. He also purchases land in 1831 No. 2071, whose property takes over land once owned by John Medley (see 1820 censusabove). William Dodson and Sam Moore are witnesses listed on the record. William Vess can be found on the 1830 census record. Is this William Vess, the William Vess who is “heir” to the Willis Vess of Alabama’s 1858 land record in Franklin County, Alabama??
And, furthermore, is this Peter Vest, the same Peter Vest listed on the Patrick Co. Deeds (1791-1941 Indexes, grantor pg. 77 on FHL Film 33,333) with wife “Margaret,” who appears to have land next to the Dodson family on North Fork in Patrick County, Virginia? A 1793 transaction which was witnessed by George Dodson Sr., George Dodson Junior, Benjamin Fletcher, and Thomas Dodson.
Perhaps, it is Peter and William Vess of Patrick County, Virginia (Deed Records) on North Fork with William Willis??
Is there an actual connection or is this just coincidence?
Conclusions
Wow!
A Franklin County, Alabama land record for Willis Vess and “heir” William Vess. A Willis and William Vess in White County, Tennessee, with a Peter Vest. All near a Dodson family. And… interestingly, there is a Peter Vess and William Vess in Patrick County, Virginia, not only living next to a Dodson family, but ALSO a Willis family.
I don’t have enough documented evidence to make any solid connections, but I am absolutely intrigued! Tennessee is a mixing pot of Vest, Voss, Vaulx, and Vess families! Hopefully, with more research, we can determine which family the Vess/Vest family of White County, Tennessee belongs to!
Vess Genealogy 