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Analyzing Ancestral DNA: Vess Genealogy

/ J. L. / 1 Comment

Vess Genealogy has been stuck at a massive roadblock for generations.
In my opinion, I believe there was a name change.

Records do exist. Either we are missing the places they might be (due to county changes) or we are overlooking records, because the surname is indexed wrong due to illegible handwriting.

Our ancestors lived in an area during a time where county lines were constantly changing, which means there are probably some counties that we may never in a zillion years ever think to look for records.

The biggest reason I believe records do exist is because so many other early families of western North Carolina have a paper-trail.

Okay, it is not exactly the neatest of paper-trails for that when you get into early records (early 1800’s and back), surnames are really butchered (horribly misspelled) to the point that even if you squint and look at it sideways, it might (if you shout it from a distance with a little echo) sound phonetically similar to the surname that it was meant to be. So, in most cases, it is the content that usually confirms the persons identity more so than the indexed surname linked to the record.

My point is, if a good portion of early families in the same area have records, there is a good chance the Vess family also has records. Unfortunately, there are too many different surname variants and counties to explore. If we want to move forward a little faster, perhaps genetic genealogy can help us.


Check out this cool video below – A North Carolina dialect that evolved independently due to isolation since the 1600’s. If that is anywhere close to what our ancestors used to talk like, no wonder names were horribly misspelled.

What Is Genetic Genealogy

It is my understanding, as I am 100% new to this, that genetic genealogy is a new approach to tackling difficult ancestors who do not want to be found.

Instead of digging through dusty old archives for records to make family connections, we can now make family connections with the help of DNA relatives. Unfortunately, the name of our stubborn ancestors are not embedded into our DNA, but DNA-relatives can point us in the direction, like a compass, to locate genealogy records that might help us identify a common ancestor.

Essentially, the idea is to use both methods (DNA and records) together to quickly and more accurately make new connections on the family tree.

Y-Chromosome DNA Testing is GOLD

Y-Chromosome DNA testing is gold, but without a lot of participants, it can also be lead.

Every male descendant carries a gene called a Y-Chromosome. Geneticist’s extract the DNA from the Y-Chromosome, analyze it and assign it to a Y-Chromosome Haplogroup (A-R).

A haplogroup consists of a group of people who share very similar DNA with one another suggesting a single common ancestor. An extremely ancient common ancestor.


The more people who participate in Y-DNA testing, the more these Haplogroups can be broken down into smaller groups called a subclade. Subclades are subgroups of Haplogroups. Assignment is largely based on single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP’s), which are specific mutations that correlate to specific paternal lines. Every time a mutation occurs over thousands of years, that genetic line branches off into a new subclade (or so that is my vague understanding of it).

As more DNA is collected and analyzed, the subclade may change; either resulting in grouping more people together into one subclade (moving from one existing subclade to another existing subclade) or having enough new information to create an entirely new subclade.

The VESS family is assigned to Haplogroup R. Haplogroup R has many different branches (subclades).

When members of the VESS family submitted their DNA, a new subclade was created where they were grouped together with the TRAVERS family (we are closely related), and then, when some members of the VESS family completed the BIG-Y Chromosome test (a more in-depth analysis), the VESS family was later assigned a new subclade although still grouped together with the TRAVERS family. This suggests a mutation.

It is interesting that our group has two different surnames and it kind of makes you wonder who came first: TRAVERS or VESS?

Did a male descendant of the TRAVERS family take the VESS surname, maybe from a step-parent, or was adopted by a VESS family or vice versa. There is also the possibility that our common ancestor could be from a time when surnames didn’t exist. OR we aren’t as closely related as we think and as more people begin to test, the VESS and TRAVERS family might drift apart into two different groups. The only thing I know for sure, is that it is a mystery we cannot solve today.

However, we did identify a new VESS line using Y-Chromosome testing: Willis Vess of Alabama.

The best thing about this DNA database, is that participants often note their oldest known ancestor which gives genealogists a specific location on a map to look for genealogy records. Although we know Andrew Logan Vess and Willis Vess are related, we have yet to determine how they are related to one another on the VESS family tree.

This is what I mean by Y-Chromosome DNA testing being gold but also lead. It has the potential to unravel many VESS mysteries, but without more participants, those mysteries will remain in the dark.

Male descendants carrying the VESS surname or one similar to it (VASS, VOSE, VOSS, VEST, VAUX, etc) are greatly encouraged to participate in Y-DNA testing through Familytreedna.com as there might be a genetic connection.

Autosomal DNA Testing

While Y-Chromosome DNA testing is a more direct route to identifying our paternal ancestors, autosomal DNA testing is more or less like taking the scenic route.

Y-Chromosome DNA tests provide you a much bigger genealogical timeline of just one paternal line that dates back to ancient times, whereas ancestral DNA tests are autosomal, which means they only go back 6-8 generations and is saturated by DNA-relatives on both sides of the family (paternal and maternal lines).

For me, my DNA-relatives related to the VESS line would mainly consist of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess (my third great-grandfather-6th gen). It would just barely (if at all) pick up DNA-relatives descending from Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess or even their parents. It greatly depends on how many of their descendants have submitted an ancestral DNA test and just how far they descend down the Vess-family line.

With an 8-generation family tree, a DNA test by my mom, and access to DNA information provided by a close family member who is a generation older than me, I have been able to identify DNA-relatives specifically connected to the VESS family line via a lengthy tedious process of elimination.

Fortunately, my mom’s DNA test does half the work for me by identifying DNA-relatives on her side of the family. Then, I look at shared DNA relatives with the family member who is a generation older than me to further identify DNA-relatives that are most likely VESS-related. Because this family member is a generation older than me, their DNA test would detect more DNA-relatives, those who are too distant to be detected by my DNA test.

Any DNA-relative with less than a cM count of 8, do not make it onto the DNA-relatives list (it’s too distant), even though there is a relation on the family tree. In theory, it would probably be best to have our grandparents do an ancestral autosomal DNA test.
cM (centimorgan)= the amount of shared DNA.

My Search Method

I started by making a list of DNA-relatives who carry the VESS name. Next, I made a list of DNA-relatives with the VESS name who also have a public VESS family tree. Lastly, I made a list of DNA-relatives who do not carry the VESS name, but have a public family tree showing they descend (at one point) from a VESS family member.

For each DNA-relative listed, I noted their oldest known ancestor (some I had to research a bit) and I also had to check their shared-relatives list to make sure they didn’t share DNA with my mom (which was the most time consuming part).

My Discoveries

At a glance, autosomal ancestral DNA tests tell us nothing; except, we have a lot of cousins. But after an extensive process of elimination, then entering the information into a spreadsheet, and finally organizing the information from closest DNA-relatives to most distant DNA-relatives does it actually start to get interesting.

1) As expected, majority of our shared DNA-relatives are descendants of Andrew Logan Vess.

2) As you scroll down towards more distant DNA-relatives, we start to see connections with Willis Vess. Based on this, we can probably confidently say that Willis and Peter Vess are very closely related.

3) Willis Vess seems closer to us than Nathan Vess; which may suggest Nathan’s line has either ended or not many of his descendants have done an ancestral DNA test.

4) Also as expected, the autosomal DNA tests just barely detect DNA-relatives who are descendants of Josiah, Alfred, and Alexander Vess (brothers of Andrew Logan Vess).

5) Interestingly, there are a few DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is one I do not recognize:

–Susan Ann Elizabeth VESS (b. 1856 Rutherford Co. NC) and Columbus MCGINNIS
*connected to Ledbetter tree and father is noted as Thomas William VEST of Tennessee

–Elizabeth Louise VESS (b. abt 1845 North Carolina) and William LANNING (marriage Henderson, NC)

–Everline VESS and James STEWART (marriage Colbert, Alabama)

–James Marvin VESS (b. 1853 South Carolina) and Sallie Octavia SPRUELL

**One of the Elizabeth’s might be the daughter of Peter Vess

6) But even more interesting are DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is Addison Vess/Vest.

You would think this is a solid connection to the VEST family of Virginia, but if you look at the family trees for Addison VESS/VEST, they are not well documented and there is no consistency with Addison’s children or parents, which is a RED FLAG in genealogy.

Final Conclusions

I am not an expert, so please keep in mind my search method could be flawed and thus the information within this post could be highly inaccurate.

We still do not have enough information to find new ancestors, but we do have enough genetic evidence to start digging deeper into the life of Willis Vess without wondering whether or not we are wasting our time. Yes, Y-Chromosome testing confirmed he is related to Peter Vess, but autosomal DNA testing suggests the relation is much closer than we think.

Also, we might want to start to investigate Addison VESS/VEST for that his name appeared quite consistently in the chart below. The reason he showed up, is because his descendants some how took on the VESS name rather than keeping the VEST name like other VEST families; in which I think is intriguing. Why did this particular VEST line evolve into a VESS line?

Well, I guess we better start digging!! 🙂

Similar Surname, Similar Family Story: Vess Genealogy

/ J. L. / 2 Comments

Research Journal – March 2, 2021

Exploring Families With Similar Surnames

Prior to 1820, the “Vess” name seems scarce.
This is either because the Vess family just recently arrived to America or that there was a name change. Today’s research strongly suggests a name change.

When a surname is misspelled, we often tend to overlook important records. My genealogy game plan to bring these records to light is to research the neighbors of Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess and investigate any nearby families with a similar surname. So far, I have a couple of excellent contenders with the VEST, VOSS, BEST, and BASS families. Unfortunately, I have yet to find any documents to confirm a direct connection with any of them.

With a handful of different families with similar surnames already piled high on my research plate, I had no intention on investigating anymore families; however, I would be foolish to disregard a family whose family story seems quite similar to our own family story…

The VASS Family: Sounds Oddly Familiar

I have spent years reaching out to different families with similar surnames in hopes one would have a similar family story to ours, but nothing ever came close until now…

I stumbled upon the VASS family with a document that wasn’t even about the VASS family itself, but more so about a man named Pendleton in Virginia whose daughter married a Vass. I can’t even tell you why I was looking at Pendleton to begin with, which happens a lot.

In genealogy, one document often leads to another document, then to another and another to the point you’re not exactly sure who it is that you were looking for in the first place! Honestly, I am pretty sure this all started with looking at map.

As I was saying, I stumbled upon a document that led me to more documents about the VASS family in Virginia. After reviewing my notes, I was shocked by how similar their family story is to ours…

1) Instead of Ireland, their “long time” family story has always been about “3 brothers from Germany.”
2) Their name used to be pronounced as “Voss” (just like us).
3) Some say they are German in origin and others say Scotland. (just like us, but instead of Scotland, it is Ireland).

There are a couple of documents pertaining to the VASS family, some of which strongly suggest they are Scottish, as part of the ROSS-Clan, with surname variants of Vaux, Vaus, and Wass. The Wass version is what they believe mistakes them for German. One source states the original name was DE-VALLIBUS; in my opinion, sounds French.

The VASS family was supposedly a prominent family in Virginia via John Vass and Rachel Pendleton. Their descendants eventually went down into North Carolina with the variant surname VOSS. They settled in parts of Casewell and Pasquotank Counties. [Note: There is Greenbury Voss/Vess in Casewell County]

Furthermore, there is a Vincent Vass (b. 1790) who married Mary Cosner living in Stokes County, North Carolina during the early 1800’s. This is interesting, because it means that William Tunwell VEST was not the only family in the area at the time with a similar surname to “VESS.” Also, we have a Peter Vest on a War of 1812 Surry County, NC record that we have not been able to connect to either the VESS or VEST family.

The VASS family is supposedly connected to the North Carolina VOSS family, which got me thinking: Is Frederick “Bass” of Anson County, NC, neighbors with the Bellew family, related to this VASS/VOSS mix?

The document linking the VASS/VOSS family (John Vass & Rachel Pendleton) to Vincent Vass cuts off and does not mention how they are related; unfortunately, I have not been able to find the original publication to read onto the next page.

I have just barely scratched the surface of the VASS family. As I mentioned before, this search initially began with looking at maps, in which I think has something to do with the names Whitlock, Vaughn, & Thompson scribbled on a piece of paper next to the name Pendleton. Of course, I didn’t jot down their connection!

Glasgow, Scotland

All this mention of Scotland, reminded me of Glasgow, Scotland.
See, my DNA results show ancestors having once living in Glasgow, Scotland. This intrigues me, because in the 1820-1830’s, we see records for a “Vess” family arriving to America from Glasgow. I do not know if there is a connection yet, but it is interesting nonetheless.


The VOSE Family: Lancashire, England

As if the pile of families with similar surnames wasn’t big enough, the VASS family led me to another:

There is one source that made a brief connection between the VASS and VOSE family, in which is not well understood. In my opinion, it seems as if they were connected together, because both families share the surname variant of VAUX. However, before tossing this family aside into the “maybe” pile, one particular thing caught my eye: The VOSE family is from Lancashire, England.


This brings me to the TRAVERS family of Lancashire, England. It is my understanding that Y-DNA data currently suggests that the VESS and TRAVERS families are related and it is believed that the two families split “prior to mid-1650.”

Interestingly, I came across a 1784 marriage record for a Mary TRAVERS and an Edward VOCE (VOSE) in Lancashire, England, but no family tree to determine further connections (if any).

The VOSE family is originally from Normandy. Interestingly, (in my opinion) the name DE-VALLIBUS that is supposedly associated with the VASS family, seems more fitting for this VOSE family.

In the early 1600’s, Robert and Sarah Vose migrated to America. Further research shows that the VOSE family prominently living in Massachusetts with no mention of any family migrating South. So with that, I tucked the VOSE family away with the WEST family- ruling them out completely.

Henry Vose of Virginia

Interestingly, buried within a plethora of documentation about the VOSE family in Massachusetts, there is this tiny bit that reads:
“Henry Vose, who arrived in Virginia in 1653.” houseofnames.com

Now, THAT is much closer to the Carolina’s!
I decided to type his info into Ancestry.com where I came across this piece of genealogy gold [right]!

He arrived in North Hampton, Virginia in 1653, sponsored by Anti. Hoskins. And guess what other name is listed with his: William Willis!

This is interesting, because we think the Willis Vess family in Alabama (from North Carolina) might have a connection with a Willis family.

Of course, this doesn’t confirm anything.

No Solid Connections Yet

Although I am disappointed that no new connections have been made, this new information is encouraging.

This new information isn’t pointing me into a new direction (which is exciting), but more so back to where I’ve already been; meaning, there is a good chance I was on the right track, but missed something! I just have to figure out what.

So far, I have recognized that research seems to be on opposite ends of our family history timeline and we are just needing to fill in a 140+/- year gap. We can trace our lineage to Peter, Nathan, and Willis and we know (via DNA) that at some point they were connected to the Travers family in England. So, roughly between 1650 – 1791 is missing.


Well, this should be fun!

What We Know So Far – Vess Genealogy

/ J. L. / 3 Comments

Happy New Year!

Let’s start the New Year by reviewing what we know so far about the so-called three brothers from Ireland.

But first, a huge THANK YOU to everyone who has provided me information about their family history, lineage, and research!

The Three Brothers

According to our VESS family story, we descend from three brothers from Ireland: Jonathan, Peter, and Nathan (Nathaniel) Vess. However, records seem to tell a different story…

Records tell us that Jonathan, Peter, and Nathan Vess did in fact exist and that they all existed during the same time period (1790-1880); however, we have not yet found any records confirming their exact relationship to one another. Possibly, because they may have not been brothers at all, but perhaps a mix of relatives: 2 brothers and a father, cousins and 1 uncle, or 2 brothers and a grandfather.

The term brothers was often used to refer to any close male relationship: siblings, father, uncle, cousin, close family friend, or church member.


Interestingly, records tell us that Peter and Nathan were born in America (North and South Carolina). According to Nathan’s records, his parents were born in South Carolina. His family possibly lived in Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina with the Gosnell and Bellew families (who are related to Nathan’s wife, Clarinda Bellew). We have also discovered a new VESS line closely related to Peter, through a Willis Vess, whose records also state his parents were born in North Carolina.

Links to each of their BIO’s: Peter Vess, Jonathan Vess, and Nathan Vess.

If our VESS family does come from Ireland, research greatly suggests that our family arrived in America sometime prior to the Revolutionary War (1775-1783). And perhaps our family story is true, but we are looking at the wrong generation of men whose names were Jonathan, Peter, and Nathan; as it was once common practice that each generation be named after their forefathers.

VESS family in Patrick County, Virginia

We have recently discovered a “VESS” family in Patrick County, Virginia. As to-date, we have not been able to connect them to the prominent “VEST” family of Virginia; giving us hope that this pocket of Vess family is related to our VESS line.

The earliest records with the name “Vess” can be found in Virginia for a Samuel, Peter, Jonathan, and William Vess:

  • Jonathan Vess married Elizabeth Heron in 1792, Patrick County, VA.
    In 1820, Jonathan Vess and his wife Elizabeth migrated to the Republic of Texas [before Texas was a state]. He is written in the Texas history books, not only because he was one of the first families to travel with Stephen F. Austin (state capital is named after), but also the town of Morales, TX was established on his land and his daughter, Mary Lorena Vess, married Sam McCulloch, Jr., who was a Texas war hero and a man of color.
  • We have found Revolutionary War records under the “Vess” name, for a Samuel, Peter, and William Vess. Peter being distinguished as a Corporal.
  • In addition, Patrick County, VA tax records 1790-1799 lists Samuel and Peter “Vess.”
  • Lastly, there is a War of 1812 record for a “Peter Vest” in Surry County, North Carolina. Thus far, we have not been able to connect him to any of the VESS or VEST families in the area; including the nearby VEST family of Stokes County, NC. However, it should be noted that Patrick County, VA is located directly above Surry County, North Carolina. We also cannot confirm that this Peter “Vest” is the same person as our Peter Vess of Rutherford County, North Carolina.


The Discovery of Willis VESS – DNA Connection

I believe the most significant find of last year, for me at least, was discovering another Vess line closely related to Peter and Nathan: Willis Vess of Franklin County, Alabama.

Familytreedna.com


DNA has confirmed Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess to be closely related; however, we do not know exactly how they are related to one another.

Y-Chromosome DNA on FamilytreeDNA.com has connected Willis and Peter’s line together and it is AncestryDNA.com, that confirms a “close” relationship between the two lines through shared DNA-relatives.

However, I suspect the relationship to be distant, for that I share more DNA-relatives with Nathan’s line than I do with those on Willis’s line. This may suggest that Nathan is likely more closely related to Peter than Willis; with Nathan and Peter as siblings/half-siblings and Willis a possible cousin. However, this could be inaccurate, largely depending on how many descendants on each line have tested through AncestryDNA.com.

Nonetheless, Willis lived during the same time period as Jonathan, Peter, and Nathan, so we can confidently suggest the connection is either through a parent or grandparent. Which brings me to Willis’s father, John Vess, who was supposedly born in North Carolina (1770) and married Margaret Vaughn.

The Vest Family of Virginia and North Carolina

Virginia
South Carolina

Many researchers suggest John Vess (father of Willis VESS) to be the son of William Tunwell Vest of Stokes County, North Carolina; however, I do not believe this to be true. I have researched the Vest family of Virginia and North Carolina extensively and have not found any records connecting the Vess and Vest families together.

William Tunwell Vess had 5 sons, Samuel, William, Charles, Isham, and John. According to my research (which could be wrong, of course), Samuel and William married “Cannifax” sisters, Charles married a “Doty,” Isham married a “Briggs” and a “Page,” and John married a “Ray.” I have not found any DNA relationships with any of their descendants.

If the Vest and Vess lines are related, they must be related distantly.

However, it may be worth looking into a James Harvey Vest, who is said to be born in Patrick County, VA in 1838. He married Rachel Jane Harper and Mary Calhoun. The reason I mention him, is because FamilytreeDNA has a VESS-VEST DNA Project Group, which states they have found a DNA connection with 2 members related to “VESS.”

We do know for a fact that some VESS lines do descend from the VEST family; however, none of those Vess lines seem to connect with our VESS line.

The VOSS Name

I am often told that our name used to be pronounced, “VOSS.”

Interestingly, there is a VOSS family in North Carolina with Greenbury Voss in Casewell County, North Carolina. He was supposedly born in Maryland and died in Pittsylvania, Virginia, having raised his family in Casewell, North Carolina. I truly have not done much research on the Voss family; however, records for this family include the surnames: VOSS, VASS, VESS, and VAUSE.


Greenbruy Vess may be worth looking further into for several reasons:
1) Records can be found with the Vess name.
2) His sons married into the Cook family that is related to the Cook family who attended Bills Creek Baptist Church (late 1800’s).
3) They are supposedly related to the Vause family in Georgia, who were in Georgia when Peter’s son, Alfred Vess, migrated there.
4) There is a Voss related to Greenbury Voss in Alabama (or Tennessee, if I remember correctly) near Willis’s Vess family!
5) Pittsylvania, Virginia is next to Patrick and Henry County, Virginia.
6) The Gonsell family (connected to Nathan) is from Maryland.

Conclusion

In short, there is no final conclusion as there is still more to explore and discover! The information we discovered and collected last year will certainly help us with our genealogy journey.

Any information you would like to share with us to help us with our research, please feel free to post in the comment sections or join our Facebook Group! I absolutely look forward to sharing new genealogy adventures with you!

















Intriguing New Discoveries: Willis Vess

/ J. L. / 1 Comment

I was recently asked if I knew anything about a Willis VESS and his connection to a John VESS.

Well, the short answer is: Very little.

But, I did stumbled upon new intriguing information that is probably worth brain storming…

I have a lot of research and I wouldn’t be surprised if the answers we seek about the VESS family are in plain sight somewhere in my messy genealogy files!

I say this, because I truly do not know how to start this post…
Vess Genealogy is like trying to put together a zillion-piece puzzle with all the puzzle pieces face down! And there is always that one piece we keep going back to, because we know what general area it belongs to; but it doesn’t quite have a space for it to fit into yet.

Simply, I don’t know what I got until I come across it again.

With that said, I will start with Willis Vess.

Willis Vess of Alabama

Willis VESS (born abt. 1810) married Talitha WHITLOCK.
Many researchers who I’ve spoken to have found connections to Willis VESS through the WHITLOCK family (including myself). I am related to Talitha WHITLOCK through my mother’s BENTLY side in Georgia.

Interestingly though, everyone seems to agree unanimously that Willis VESS is the son of a John VESS.

You can find a picture of his cabin on FindAGrave.com, posted by Anna Popejoy, who I’ve been told was a genealogist who has done Y-Chromosome testing.

We do not know who was tested specifically, as it had to be a male descendant, but supposedly there is a DNA connection between the Willis VESS line and the Peter VESS line. Where this connection is on the family tree is still a mystery.

According to online sources, John VESS was born abt. 1770 in North Carolina. He supposedly married Margaret VAUGHN and they had two sons: Willis VESS born abt. 1810 and John Peter VESS born abt. 1822.

According to my research, the VESS/VEST family from Virginia appears on record in North Carolina as early as 1790; obtaining land as early as 1798 (Stokes Co.). If they were in the area any earlier, it would have been Rowan County.

Many researchers (including myself) try to connect Willis VESS of Alabama to William Tunwell VEST (1735 VA-1812 NC) of Stokes County, North Carolina. But, research simply does not support any kind of connection between the two families (at least not directly).

William Tunwell VEST did have a son named John VEST. However, John VEST was born in Virginia (abt. 1765). He married Eliza RAY and you can follow him on several census records with his brothers (Charles, William, and Samuel VEST) in Stokes County, North Carolina. He died in 1833. So, he is likely not the father of Willis VESS.

Intriguing New Discoveries

Current research suggests that William Tunwell VEST may have not been the only VESS/VEST family in North Carolina!

I have been working on compiling VESS, VEST, VOSS, and VASS marriages from 1790-1820. Majority of the VEST marriages are in Stokes County, North Carolina with connections with William Tunwell VEST (his children and his grandchildren); however, there are a couple (very scarce) odd balls in neighboring counties (Surry and Wilkes) that do not seem to have any direct connection with William Tunwell VEST.

But even more intriguing…

Sources say the parents of Willis VESS are John VESS and Margret VAUGHN.

Well, while compiling marriage records, I found a PETER VEST and a “PUGNANCE VAUGHN” married on November 24, 1785 in Henry County, Virginia.



As mentioned in my last post, I have discovered a VESS family in Patrick County, Virginia who do not have any documented connections with anyone. Are they VESS or VEST?


Patrick County, VA was established in 1791 and was previously part of Henry County, VA. So, this Peter VEST (married to Pugnance VAUGHN) may be connected to the VESS family in Patrick County, VA.

Interestingly, this gives us a “Peter” VEST married in 1785 and a “Jonathan” Vess married in 1792. So, I couldn’t help but wonder... is there an older Nathaniel Vess?

There is! Well, a Nathaniel VEST, born 1791 in Virginia (died in Indiana).
It is not just the name “Nathaniel” that intrigues me, but also his spouse, whose maiden name is “DUNCAN.”

Is his spouse, Lavina DUNCAN, related to the John DUNCAN who appears on the Patrick County, VA Land Tax record with Peter and Samuel VESS??

Also, note…I found a WHITLOCK too (bottom of a 1792 Patrick CO. Land Tax record).

As usual, this intriguing find does not seem to bring us any closer to connecting the Willis VESS line to the Peter/Nathan Vess line. Nor does it bring us any closer to finding out who Peter and Nathan’s parents are…

1) Although Nathaniel VEST of Virginia is not old enough to be the father of our Peter and Nathan Vess, Jonathan and Peter VESS/VEST (of Virginia) are, BUT…

2) Our Nathan VESS was supposedly born in South Carolina and so was his parents. [Ref. 1880 Mortality Record]

3) The parents of Willis VESS were supposedly born in North Carolina. [Ref. various census records]

4) Jonathan Vess of Patrick County, Virginia who married Elizabeth Heron migrated to Republic of Texas in 1820. [Ref. Texas history]

So, who is the John Vess on Peter’s 1830 land record??



Other information that might relate to Willis VESS:

1) 1860 census record states Willis VESS was born in Indiana, but all other census records state he was born in North Carolina.

2) There is supposedly a Willis VESS in South Carolina. I will check my notes again.

3) Talitha WHITLOCK was born in Georgia (abt. 1820). Her mother is Elizabeth GREEN.

Peter’s son, Josiah VESS has a connection with a GREEN family in Rutherford County, NC through his spouse, Zilla Early. I will look to see if there are any connections.

4) Peter’s son Alfred VESS migrated to Georgia after the Civil War and I often wondered, if there was already family out there or if the war landed him there.

5) Supposedly Peter’s line eventually made it up to Indiana, but I cannot remember when or who went up there. I am not familiar with any family from Peter’s line moving to Alabama. I will double check though.

What Are Your Thoughts?

I don’t have enough evidence to make any solid conclusions about the VESS family in Patrick County, VA, but I did want to share my findings with everyone.

Please feel free to share your thoughts in the comments section or join us on the Vess Genealogy Facebook Group.

Sorting Through Name Variants For VESS

/ J. L.

Yesterday, I had this ingenious plan to locate the parents of Nathan Vess! Unfortunately, it isn’t the most easiest of ingenious plans.

I am a firm believer that the reason why Vess genealogy is so difficult, is because of a name change! The challenge now is figuring out what original surname our “Vess” name evolved from!

Here are my candidates based North and South Carolina census records 1790-1820.

VEST
WEST
BEST
VOSS

Name variants (as found on census records):
VIST
VERT
VASS
BASS
BOSS
BESS
WIST
BOST
VOST
WISS
VISS
VAST
BAST

My Monster SpreadSheet

I’ve decided to use a spreadsheet to track families with similar names in areas where I know some of Peter and Nathan’s neighbors and family have been.

So far, I am beginning to see distinct family migration patterns emerge…



As you can see, the WEST family is pretty widespread.

According to the WEST FAMILY DNA PROJECT, there are several different WEST lines with majority of them being connected to an orphan from England. There is also a West line connected to the Thomas West, Baron De La Warr and Benjamin West, an 18th century American artist.

UPDATE: According to several researchers who have done Y-chromosome research, it has been confirmed that there is no DNA relationship between Vess and West families. 🙂

Now, their DNA records do show that there is a West family connection with the South Carolina West family, but they do not know whose line they originate from. They also have a list of unrelated WEST families, with the assumption there was a name change at some point. Interestingly, while browsing the list, a few familiar names caught my eye.

Unfortunately, the WEST FAMILY DNA PROJECT website has been taken down or moved without a working link; so, I am unable to reference it again. However, I did manage to download a few pages of information the last time the website was active. 😉

Hopefully, with a little more investigation, I will be able to separate different WEST families.

Well, that is my project for the week!

Revisiting The VEST family

I did come across an interesting thing on the VEST family, but I don’t want to get side-tracked! I really need to work on the WEST family first. BUT, according to a BIO on FindMyGrave.com, for a VEST ancestor, it states their family is of “Scotch Irish origin.”

This is interesting for several reasons:
1) John Jay Vest is related to North Carolina Senator George Vest.
2) “Jay” is a surname that is related to both BEST and WEST families. And, middle names, especially, prior to the 1800’s, came from their mother or grandmother’s maiden name.
3) More importantly, this is the first time that I’ve seen anything stating the VEST family having Scot-Irish origins. Other family trees (a lot of them) have traced the VEST family to a Moses Vest (1600’s) from Germany.

This really needs further investigating…but first, the WEST family!










The Life of Andrew Logan Vess of McDowell County, North Carolina

/ J. L. / 8 Comments

Andrew Logan Vess is one of my favorite ancestors to research, mostly because he actually exists on record! He has several records, which seems pretty rare for the Vess family!

Andrew “Andy” Logan Vess (1825-1905)

Nearly two hundred years ago, on April 25, 1825, Andrew Logan Vess was born in Rutherford County, North Carolina. He is the 3rd son of Peter Vess and Catherine “Katie” Crook.

Although records for Andrew Logan Vess are not entirely scarce, none actually pertain to his personal life.

Who he was as a man, husband, father and/or gentlemen is lost; however, we have been able to uncover several interesting events that occurred during his life.

*Correction: Catherine CROOK

Whereabouts He Grew Up

Records, as early as 1820, show Andrew’s parents, Peter and Catherine, living in Rutherford County, North Carolina.

Further research suggests that they were likely living somewhere on Knobs Creek near Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. Catherine’s father, John Crook, husband of Rachel Haynes, owned land next to her maternal grandfather’s land (William Haynes). 

According to Helen M. Lu’s, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, Peter and Catherine were members between 1829-1836, and Catherine’s grandfather, William Haynes, was one of the first pastors.

When Andrew Logan Vess was 6 years old, in 1831, his father obtained “100 acres of land on both sides of Cedar Creek in Rutherford County;” which has been narrowed down to an area located in today’s Broad River Township (now part of Buncombe County).

In 1838, records show his father, Peter Vess, was a member of Bethlehem Baptist Church of Burke County (now part of McDowell County); which is located not too far from his property in Broad River; which explains their absence from Bill’s Creek Baptist Church between 1836-1844.

Bethlehem Baptist Church was an extension of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church and both were part of the Catawba River Association (Helen M. Lu, pg. 15 & 86).

At the age of 19, in 1844, records show that Andrew’s mother, Catherine, returned to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church without Peter; suggesting that Peter may have died. According to deed records, Peter gave his land to a J. Souther, to cover a debt. 

At the age of 21, in 1846, Andrew Logan Vess and his brothers, also become members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church (without Peter), suggesting the family likely moved back to Knobs Creek. 

First Wife: Linnia Halford

At the age of 24, on May 14, 1849, Andrew Logan Vess marries his first wife, Lucy Malinda “Linnia” Halford, the daughter of Thomas Halford and Sarah “Lollie” Jane Hill.

Andrew and Linnia had 7 children together: Calvin Bailey, William Columbus, James Harvey, John Alexander, Sarah Catherine, Pinkney Elcanah, and Thomas Logan.

John Alexander Vess, son of Andrew Vess and Linnia Halford (1857-1939) [Ancestry.com]
From 1800’s cipher and practice book


In 1850, Andrew and his family are shown living near his in-laws, Thomas and Sarah Halford in Montford Cove, Rutherford County, North Carolina.

Military: Civil War

At the age of 38, on Sept. 1, 1863, Andrew Logan Vess joined the military. He served as a Confederate solider (private rank) under the 62nd Regiment, North Carolina Infantry, Company F.


Click here for a brief battle history of the 62nd Regiment.


Click here for a brief battle history of the 64th Regiment (Allens Regiment)

Andrew served in the same Regiment as Nathan’s son, Abraham Vess of Haywood County. Unfortunately, Abraham was captured at Cumberland Gap and imprisoned at Douglass Camp. It does not look like Andrew was every captured nor are there any records indicating if he was ever wounded during his service.

Second Wife: Cynthia Conner

After the Civil War, in 1866, at the age of 41, Andrew’s first wife dies, leaving him a widower with 7 young children (the youngest being 1 year-old and the oldest being 16).

Several months later, on Jan 1, 1867, he married Cynthia Conner, a local midwife and daughter of Allen Conner and Mary Polly Crawford.

According to Helen M. Lu’s, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, the new Bill’s Creek Baptist Church was built upon land owned by Issac Conner, Cynthia’s uncle.

Andrew Logan and Cynthia Conner had 6 children together: David Andrew, Linnie, Easter, Noah M., George Washington, and Allen “Andy” Peter.

Noah M. Vess, son of Andrew Logan Vess and Cynthia Conner (1875-1958) [Ancestry.com]

Andrew, like his father, was a farmer. Census records show, that Andrew and his family eventually settled in Broad River (now McDowell County) near Old Fort.

The 1900 census record reveals that he owned a farm; however, it is difficult to determine the location of his farm. It is also not known as to whether or not, he inherited his father’s property on Cedar Creek. [Information about his homesite has been shared in the comments below]

Troubles At Church

The book, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu, has been a great resource for information pertaining to the Bill’s Creek community, especially, information regarding Andrew Logan Vess.



The following are some interesting accounts mentioned in Lu’s book:

Case of Brother Andrew L. Vess
“On 6 April 1862, he objected to himself on “account of drinking too much spiritous liquors.” After relating his conviction for the sin of intoxication he promised “to drink no more only as medicine.”

Bill’s Creek Baptist Church : Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu (page 109)

Excluded
“Vess, A. L. Excluded 4 Jan. 1867 for distilling some brandy for the purpose of paying debts and providing for his family.”

Bill’s Creek Baptist Church : Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu (page 153)

Interestingly, a few days before he was excluded, he married Cynthia Conner.

Excluded
“A. L. Vess Excluded 4 Oct. 1877 for joining Free-will Baptist.”

Bill’s Creek Baptist Church : Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu (page 189)

According to Lu, he re-joined Bill’s Creek in 1874 and 1893, “by recantation.”

Death: Old Fort, North Carolina

Davistown Cemetery Findagrave.com
Gravestone only displays his birthdate; likely, because it is not the original gravestone and date of death on the original gravestone was likely illegible.


Andrew Logan Vess died on June 10, 1905, in Old Fort, McDowell County, North Carolina. He is buried at Davistown Cemetery, next to Davistown Free-will Baptist Church. According to family, the cemetery used to be the Davis Family Cemetery.

Ancestry.com



We know that Andrew Logan Vess left Bill’s Creek Baptist Church for a Free-will Baptist church, but that church was not named on record. Perhaps, it was Davistown Free Will Baptist, but there doesn’t seem to be any available information about when Davistown Free-will Baptist Church was initially formed.

Citations:
Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History 1782-1982, by Helen M. Lu. 

Resources:
-Family letters provided by different relatives
-Photos provided by family and Ancestry.com
–North Carolina land grants and deeds
-Census records from Ancestry.com
-Civil War records
-Findagrave.com

A Mysterious John Vess In South Carolina?

/ J. L. / 4 Comments

There are many different VESS family lines today, many of which that have descended from Peter and Nathan Vess of North Carolina; however, there are actually a few unrelated families with similar surnames that, at one point or another, diverted from their original family tree with the Vess name (such as the Vest family).

The ultimate challenge in Vess Genealogy is trying to trace Vess lines accurately back to their original families.

A while ago, I stumbled on a Greenwood, South Carolina record with the name “John Vess.” Unfortunately, the document is not dated. By the looks of it, (I am certainly no expert), I would say it was probably created sometime in the 1800’s; which leaves us to ponder…who was living in South Carolina in the 1800’s?

South Carolina Online Records

Dating The Document

To figure out who this John Vess might be, we first need to date the document.

Unfortunately, I am not entirely familiar with the history, districts, or residents of South Carolina. Like, North Carolina, counties and districts were frequently changing during the 1800’s, scattering records across several different areas creating some research challenges.

However, according to some recent research, Greenwood was named after a plantation in 1824. In 1897 Greenwood County was established, which was previously part of Abbeville and Edgefield, far from the Bellew and Gosnell families in Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina who are connected with Nathaniel Vess.

According to the document, the residents referred to Greenwood as a “village” that consisted of “32 families” from the Abbeville District; in which makes this document a bit older than 1824, but probably not quite as old as 1900.

Possibly Created Between 1843-1860

Today, with an approximate range of dates, I was able to find the residents named on the Greenwood document on a single record: The 1850 South Carolina, Abbeville, Greenwood census record.

Interestingly, I found nearly all the residents, except one or two, including John Vess. I found him on a different census: The 1850 South Carolina, Abbeville, Saluda census record.

Saluda and Greenwood are next to each other. They will both eventually become their own county, but at this time, they are part of Abbeville County.

Ancestry.com 1850 census record South Carolina, Abbeville, Saluda

The undated Greenwood document was likely created between 1843 and 1860.

According to the 1850 census, some of the residents named on the Greenwood document are in their twenties, so we can probably, safely assume, the Greenwood document was created sometime after 1843. Many of the other residents are over 50 and are missing on the 1860 census (including John Vess), suggesting the document could not have been created after 1860. So, this gives us a pretty good date range to research a local Vess family in the Greenwood area.

About John Vess of Saluda, SC

Looking at the Greenwood document, named is John Turner and John Vess. I found John Turner (30 years-old) on the 1850 Abbeville, Greenwood, South Carolina census. But, there is no John Vess on that census.

As previously mentioned, John Vess (25 years-old) is on the 1850 Abbeville, Saluda, South Carolina census record. He is listed living with an Alexander Turner.

This is the only census record I can find for this John Vess. He was born in 1825, in South Carolina. He married Drucilla Turner, daughter of Alexander Turner. According to the 1850 census record, they married within the year.

According to the 1860 census record, Drucilla Turner (Vess) is without John Vess, but she has a 7-year-old son named James Vess. She is living with her father, Alexander Turner.

I also discovered another VESS record, who appear to be two brothers named William E Vess (22) and John Vess (24), both carpenters, born in North Carolina, living with a Brooks family in Abbeville, Saluda Regiment (Edgefield), South Carolina. They are approximately around the same age as the John Vess found living with Alexander Turner, yet born in different states. I do not know what to make of this…

The ages of William and John would make them possible children of Peter and Nathaniel Vess; however, all their children can be found living in North Carolina.

According to the 1850 census records, Nathan (Nathaniel) and his family are living in Buncombe County, North Carolina. All except his oldest son, Andrew Jackson, who is living in Haywood County with his in-laws, Parmer.

Peter’s children are living with their mother, Catherine, in Bill’s Creek, Rutherford County, North Carolina. All except for his son, Andrew Logan, who is living in Montford Cove, Rutherford County, North Carolina with his in-laws, Halford.

Pondering Possible Relations

At first, I thought John Vess (married to Drucilla Turner) was the son of Peter Vess, for that an 1854 newspaper clipping (Petition for Divorce) states his son was no longer a resident of North Carolina. But, we find him on the 1850 census record, with his wife Elizabeth and their children, living in Bills Creek, Rutherford County, North Carolina with his mother and siblings. Unless, he moved in between census, he is unlikely to be Peter’s son. Also, all of Peter’s children were born in Rutherford County, North Carolina.

Although there is some debate on whether or not Nathan’s older children were born in South Carolina, all of his known children can also be found in North Carolina in 1850.

Perhaps, this John Vess is the son of Jonathan Vess, the so-called brother of Peter and Nathan Vess, which we know so little about.

As for the brothers, William and John Vess, born in North Carolina; I strongly suspect they are likely related to the VEST family, because of their trade. The Vest family of North Carolina appears to be well educated and the son of William “Tunwell” Vest, Charles Vest, was a manufacture (construction trade). It would only make sense that his sons or even nephews would take on a similar trade. Whereas Peter and Nathan Vess are farmers.

But there are other possibilities too, due to name changes. These Vess families could also be related to the West, Wiss, or even Voss families of South Carolina. Further research is certainly needed.