John Vess (b. 1820) is the son of Peter Vess and Catherine Crook in Rutherford County, NC. He married Elizabeth Taylor and had 5 children together: Sarah, Silas, Mary, Sophrona, and William.
In 1854, Elizabeth announced her divorce to John Vess in the newspaper, stating he was an out-of-state resident. She married Joshua Souther in Henderson County, NC, the same day she announced her divorce in the newspaper.
A newly discovered record, reveals that Silas and Mary Vess, “orphans of John Vess,” were bound to Joshua Souther in 1855.
This suggests John Vess either died or is long gone from the state of North Carolina!
We do not know where John Vess went after 1850.
There is some speculation that he is one of the three John Vess families in Abbeville County, South Carolina, while there is some speculation that he is John P. Vess in Franklin County, Alabama who is not only the same age at John Vess in North Carolina, but also doesn’t appear in Alabama until 1860.
John Vess as John P. Vess would make those mysterious close shared DNA matches between me (a descendant of Peter Vess) and the Alabama Vess family (connecting to Tennessee Simmons/ Dodson family) make better sense, since John P. Vess married Louisa F. Simmons, who I believe is Louisa F. Dodson, former wife of Zachariah T. Simmons in Tennessee.
Remarkably, by arranging my shared DNA matches to the Alabama Vess family to match their suggested relationship to me on Ancestry’s family tree, strongly suggests that Willis Vess or John P. Vess is the son of Peter Vess.
Unfortunately, just because it would make sense, doesn’t mean it’s accurate.
We need more DNA testing and genealogical records to further explore the relationship between both Vess families.
John and Alfred Vess, sons of Peter and Catherine Vess, both left the state of North Carolina after 1850. I am curious if they both went to South Carolina…
We do not know exactly where John Vess went to (other than he left the state of North Carolina), but Alfred Webb Vess settled in Georgia, whose in-laws came from Abbeville County, South Carolina where records during the same time period show several other “Vess” families.
Did John and Alfred have Vess family in South Carolina?
James Marvin Vess: Saluda, Abbeville County, South Carolina
In the 1850 South Carolina census, we find a John Vess (b. 1825 SC), with wife, Drucilla Turner, and son James Marion Vess in Saulda, Abbeville County, South Carolina. Records from the South Carolina Archives and History Digital Collections for “John Vess” reveal they are living in the Greenwood community (which will become its own county in 1897).
This John Vess disappears after 1850 too.
Interestingly, according to DNA research by Vincent Vess, descendants of James Marion Vess share DNA matches with both Vess and Crook cousins, which strongly suggests a connection to Peter and Catherine Vess from Rutherford County, North Carolina via possibly their son John Vess.
In the 1850 Rutherford County, North Carolina census, we do find John Vess listed with his wife Elizabeth Taylor (and kids), living with Catherine and his younger siblings. Vincent points out that this is dated September 17th, 1850, whereas the 1850 Abbeville County, South Carolina census with John Vess and Drucilla Turner (Vess) is dated November 25th 1850; two months apart. Could they be the same person?
This John Vess (if not our John Vess) in South Carolina could also be a very close relative of Peter Vess (brother, father, half-brother, etc) who may also descend from a CROOK. Or, it may be a false lead, with DNA matches descending somewhere else on the CROOK branch (non-Vess related).
BUT, Vincent also points out, that another VESS-CROOK lineage is not implausible, for that we have documentation of an older “John Vess” in Rutherford County, North Carolina, as a “John Vess” was a witness to a land record for Peter Vess in 1831.
Peter’s son, John, was only 11 years old at the time, and not legally old enough to sign legal documents yet. I was told by a historian from the North Carolina Genealogical Society that the legal age would have been 16.
Even more interesting, is that Greenwood County is near Newberry County (South Carolina) where Catherine’s paternal grandfather, Andrew Crook may have come from (prior to obtaining land in Buncombe Co in 1804)… Could there be a connection?
Could “John Vess” in Abbeville County, South Carolina, be our “John Vess” from Rutherford County, North Carolina or is it possibly another lost “Vess-Crook” lineage.
Brothers John & William Vess: Saluda Regiment, Abbeville County, South Carolina
In the 1850 census for Saluda “Regiment,” Abbeville County, South Carolina (separate census from the above Saluda, Abbeville County, SC census), there are two brothers (maybe cousins) living with a Brooks family: John and William “Vess.”
Abbeville County was divided into 2 regiments, Savanah River Regiment (where we find Alfred’s in-laws) and Saluda Regiment (where we have John & William Vess). I have yet to determine the difference between Saluda Regiment census and just Saluda census records, as they are distinctly different (it does not include the John Vess & Turner family).
What is intriguing about John and William Vess (if accurate) is that it is noted on census they were born in North Carolina, ruling out Peter and Nathaniel’s line. They were born about 1824 and 1826, ruling out Pryor, William, and Peter’s line from Wilkes county, who were in White County, TN by 1820.
This leaves Absalom Vess and the briefly mentioned Johnathan Vess in Wilkes County, North Carolina. Johnathan was only mentioned a couple of times between 1803-1805, with no indication as to where he went next; however, Absalom is a possible candidate as he remained in North Carolina with records between 1803-1820. His wife Hannah appears to have survived him. Census records (although mostly girls) did reveal they had at least 2 sons (but only 1 in the age range above).
There is also the suspected older John Vess in Rutherford County, North Carolina (witness to Peter’s land) to also consider…
John Vess Age 51 Greenville, South Carolina
According to Civil War records, there is a “John Vess” (records also “Vest”) who enlisted from Greenville, South Carolina. Other than the 1830 census for Polly “Vess,” there are no “Vess” families on census or any other available records in Greenville, SC.
Civil War records from Fold3.com, reveal correspondences asking to be dismissed from the military due to his age. He claimed to be 51 years of age (1864) with an estimated birthdate of 1813; unfortunately, he had no proof of his age.
According to the records, John Vess was interviewed by a man, who declared in a written statement, that he believes (based on the interview) that John Vess is of 50 years old of age.
Unfortunately, none of these records indicated where John Vess was born.
What Are We Looking At?
Who are these “Vess” families? Are they Haplogroup R1a2, like us, or are they another family (unrelated to us) whose name eventually evolved into Vess?
*Note: Descendants of Nathaniel Vess have yet to complete a Y-DNA test or upload their Autosomal DNA results to the Vess Family DNA Project. At this time, we do not know if the Nathaniel Vess line is related to the Peter & Willis Vess family (Halpogroup R1a2).
John Vess from Greenville, South Carolina intrigues me, because his Civil War records are under the “Vess” and “Vest” name, which strongly suggests he may be a “Vess” relative for Peter and Willis Vess. Records alternating between the “Vest” and “Vess” name are often associated with the VESS family.
Having shared DNA matches with the Vess/Turner family (Vess & Crook matches) in Abbeville County is fascinating; especially, since Greenwood is near Newberry County, where the Crook(s) family use to resided prior to 1800.
And, what about the brothers/cousins also in Abbeville County, whose census states they were born in North Carolina? If true, do they come from Wilkes County, North Carolina?
The most fascinating thing to me, is that there is an off and on presence of “Vess” families in South Carolina between 1794 (Nathaniel’s birth) to 1870 whose origins and lineages are unknown!
• 1794 Nathaniel Vess is believed to have been born in South Carolina. • 1810 John “Beas” (not sure if Vess) appear on census (Spartanburg Co.) near families later associated with Nathaniel and Peter Vess. • 1830 Polly Vess in Greenville County in the same census as the Plummley family seen near Nathaniel Vess in Rutherford Co. NC and Pryor Vest in White County, TN. • 1850 John Vess (b. SC) / Drucilla Turner Saluda, Abbeville Co. shared DNA matches with VESS & CROOK descendants. • 1850 John & William Vess Saluda Regiment, Abbeville Co., supposedly born in North Carolina. • 1860 John Vess (age 51) from Greenville, Co.
I’ve plotted all the locations and dates we find “Vess” records. We now have an interesting timeline which shows the VESS/VEST family starting in Loundoun Co./ Dunmore Co. Virginia, going straight through Rockbridge Co. Virginia to Henry/Partick County, Virginia (once Pittsylvania Co). then onto Wilkes County, North Carolina, where they then appear to split up after 1810. By 1830, there is a Vess family in Texas, Alabama, Tennessee, North and South Carolina.
In all these areas where we have found VESS records, we also see the same family with records under the VEST name. Both names (VESS & VEST) were used interchangeably until 1830, with an occasional record of VOSS, VASS, and VERT in between.
What seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb when trying to sort out VESS families from other families of similar surnames, is the presence of the VESS name and how frequently it is used by a specific group of VESS/VEST families. You may come across a VESS record for the VEST family, but it is very rare. However, please note that it has been documented that some (1-2) VEST lineages from the Chesterfield Co. Virginia VEST family, did take on the VESS name, which appears to have occurred after 1850. And, we still do not know if the Rockbridge County, VA VESS family is VEST, WEST, or maybe VERT.
Y-DNA testing is the best way to help us further sort out the different VESS, VEST, VOSS, VASS, and VERT families. Y-DNA testing with family trees, can tell us their Haplogroup and the areas in which that Haplogroup once occupied.
Time Line
Below, I have included a timeline, that includes the location, family, and source of their “Vess” record.
1770-1774 Loundoun Co. VA (not on map) James and William Vess
1758-1786 Loundoun Co. VA (not on map) James and William Vess
Conrad “VERT” listed in the same record. The son of Conrad Vert, is Adam Vert. Adam Vert later appears in Rockbridge County, VA tax records, prior to Samuel & Hiram Vess.
1777-1779 Dunmore County, VA / Frederick Co. VA Samuel (wife Ann), Peter, and William Vess
Ancestry.com (Revolutionary War records)│Stewart Bell Jr. Archives Digital Collections (Vass record) *site deactivated Sept. 30, 2023
1773 & 1782 -1800 Pittslyvania Co. into Henry Co into Patrick Co. VA Betty Vess, Samuel (wife Catherine), Jonathan (wife Elizabeth Heron), Peter (wife Pugnance Vaughn), Sarah, and William Vess
1790 & 1805-1810 Wilkes County, NC William, Pryor, Absalom, Jonathan, and Peter Vess
Wilkes County, NC Pleas & Quarter Sessions Court Minutes 1795-1805 & 1805-1810, Transcribed by John A. McGreachy │Ancestry.com (1790 & 1810, 1820, & 1830 census, War of 1812 record) │Familysearch.org (court records & tax lists)
1814-1840 White Co. & Van Buren Co. TN Pryor, William, Peter, and Willis Vess
Ancestry.com (1820, 1830, 1840 census & land records)
1820 -1850+ Rutherford Co. NC(including Burke & Haywood Co) Peter and Nathaniel Vess
1850 -1860 Abbeville County, Saulda, South Carolina John Vess (husband of Drucilla Turner, father of James Vess). And, 1850 only, William Vess and John Vess, possible brothers.
Not much is known about John Vess, the oldest son of Peter Vess and Catherine “Katie” Crook of Rutherford Co. North Carolina.
For generations, the only information we had on John was from the 1850 census record in Bill’s Creek, Rutherford Co., North Carolina (below). He was married to a woman named Elizabeth and they had 4 children together.
Only just recently, through DNA genealogy and access to more digital genealogical records, have we been able to discover more about the early Vess family…
John Vess & Elizabeth Taylor: Rutherford Co. NC
John Vess was born in Rutherford County, North Carolina in 1820 to Peter VESS and Catherine “Katie” CROOK.
He married Mary Elizabeth Taylor (marriage date unknown). He briefly attended Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in November of 1846, with his brothers Alfred and Andrew (Andy) Vess. He was later dismissed (date unknown).
In December 1846, he signs a court-document with his brother Josiah, settling his father’s debt with Joseph Souther via a land deed for Peter’s property.
In 1850, he is in Bill’s Creek, Rutherford Co. North Carolina with his wife and 4 children, listed next to his family, Josiah Vess, Catherine Vess, and his younger siblings, except for Andrew Vess. It is strongly believed that Peter Vess likely passed away in 1846.
In 1854, a Petition for Divorce was announced in the newspaper between John and Elizabeth Vess. The article states John Vess was a non-resident of the state, suggesting he had moved out of state.
Elizabeth married Joshua SOUTHER in Nov 1854, in Henderson Co. North Carolina. We discover her maiden name is TAYLOR via her marriage record to Joshua SOUTHER.
On the 1860 census, we have Elizabeth Souther and her younger children (Vess) living with Joshua Souther in Henderson Co. North Carolina.
In 1870, Joshua and Elizabeth Souther are living next Elizabeth’s parents, James TAYLOR and Mary TAYLOR (GILBERT) in Henderson Co. NC.
Children of John Vess and Elizabeth Taylor
DNA genealogy revealed that Sarah Vess, daughter John Vess and Elizabeth Taylor, married Jackson PRESSLEY. Genealogical records show us that Silas Vess died during the Civil War, Sophrona Vess married Columbus SUMMEY, and, Mary Vess was last seen on the 1860 census (age 13); she may have married prior to the 1870 census. But, apparently, John and Elizabeth had an other child: William River VESS.
I came across a marriage record for a William Vess in Henderson Co. NC dated 1870, which states his parents are John and Elizabeth Vess (below). The only Vess family I am aware of in Henderson Co. is John’s children, living with their mother Elizabeth and Joshua Souther. And, to the best of my knowledge, Nathaniel Vess did not have any children named John.
William Vess married Laura MAHAFFEY (Rowena Laura Lou Mahaffey), whose parents are supposedly William MAHAFFEY and Calvania PRESSLEY from South Carolina. Her mother might be related to Jackson PRESSLEY, as it is believed his family also came from South Carolina – more research is needed.
William Vess was born in 1852 in North Carolina, which would have certainly been before John and Elizabeth’s divorce.
According to family trees and online biographies, William and Rowena (Laura) settled in Texas. According to Find-A-Grave, William died “from the 1917 epidemic” in Bonham, Fannin County, Texas.
Sources:
Ancestry.com. North Carolina, U.S., Marriage Records, 1741-2011 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2015.
The National Archives in Washington D.C.; Record Group: Records of the Bureau of the Census; Record Group Number: 29; Series Number: M432; Residence Date: 1850; Home in 1850: Bills Creek, Rutherford, North Carolina; Roll: 644; Page: 330a
Ancestry.com. North Carolina, U.S., Marriage Records, 1741-2011 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2015.
Ancestry.com. 1860 United States Federal Census [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2009. Images reproduced by FamilySearch.
In August of 2020, I discovered two John Vess families in South Carolina whose origins are a mystery.
The first is an 1850 census record for John and William E. Vess of Saluda Regiment, Abbeville, South Carolina. Both of them are in their 20’s, they are listed as carpenters, and they claim to be born in North Carolina.
The second is an 1850 census record for John Vess and Drucilla Vess of Saluda, Abbeville, South Carolina. John is 25 and he is listed as a farmer. 1860 census, suggests John Vess died, for that it is just Drucilla Turner and James Vest (assuming their son).
Today, I came across Civil War records for John Vess and William VESTZ (pretty sure it’s William Vess). The first record, John Vess states he enlisted in Greenville, South Carolina and his occupation is a carpenter. These two records, might be referring to John and William Vess from the 1850 census. According to these records, John Vess was hospitalized and William was captured. I am not sure if they survived the war though.
In between John Vess and William Vestz, is a Civil War record for JOHN VEST. He too was enlisted in Greenville, South Carolina. What makes his record so interesting, is that he was forced to write a letter asking to be discharged from the military due to his age. The discharge was granted, which means this John Vest was born sometime before 1815.
Fold3: Civil War Record and Letter Certifying His Age
I found an 1880 census record for a John Vest in Greenville, South Carolina with a birth year that would put him at the approx. same age as John Vest in the Civil War record above. This John Vest (1880 census) was born about 1815 in South Carolina and states both his parents were born in South Carolina.
This is very intriguing, because there are no early records of a VEST or VESS family in South Carolina. All we know is that we have records that strongly suggest that Nathaniel Vess was born in South Carolina in 1794 with a connection to Greenville, South Carolina via Clarinda Bellew who also states both his parents were born in South Carolina (below). Could Nathan Vess and John Vest be related???
Vess Genealogy 