As you may know, I have been investigating a family story about an “outlaw” that the Vess family was supposedly involved with at one time. Thus far, I’ve explored possible connections with the outlaw, Lewis Redmond, who was “loved and respected” by the residents of the Dark Corners of South Carolina; however, there is no evidence of a direct connection with the Vess family. I’ve also explored a genetic allied-family connection with John “Redhead” Hodge; yet, there is no evidence suggesting he was an outlaw.
Perhaps, the Vess family has nothing to do with an outlaw (or particularly one with “red hair”), or perhaps I’ve been looking in the wrong place…
This weekend, I explored a series of newspaper articles (1835) that frequently mentioned the name “Vess.” The articles appear to be a continuing narrative of true events; however, without starting with the very first article, it is very difficult to tell who this “Vess” person is, in which, these articles are talking about; so I began to dig around…
John Andrew Murrell
After much research, I discovered that these newspaper articles are about the notorious outlaw, John Andrew Murrell.
John Andrew Murrell, according to family history sites, is strongly believed to have been just a horse thief whose notorious reputation as a legendary dangerous outlaw was the result of fabricated stories by Virgil A. Stewart and others.
In Stewart’s narrative, he often mentions his experiences dealing with Matthew Clanton and William Vess; in which he accuses them of damaging his reputation. In one article, he tells a story on how the Vess family tried to poison him and take his land.
Later, by a petition of neighbors, Mathew Clanton’s side of the story was published, refuting the accusations against him and the Vess family that Stewart wrote about in his narrative. According to numerous websites, historians believe Virgil A. Stewart’s narrative was “overly-exagerated” and “fictitious.”
Who Was William Vess?
The short answer: I don’t know. But, the little information I was able to dig up, is intriguing!
According to FindAGrave.com, Virgil A. Stewart was involved in John A. Murrell’s gang and betrayed him in 1834, having him convicted for slave stealing. John A. Murrell was sentenced 10 years in prison at the Tennessee State Penitentiary.
Virgil A. Stewart came to the Choctaw Purchase (today known as Grenada County, Mississippi) for prospects of land. According to H.R. Howard, “The History of Virgil A. Stewart and his Adventure in Capturing and Exposing the Great Western Land Pirate and his Gang…,” Virgil was employed by Matthew Clanton, who owned a store, and was recommended to board with the Vess family, who were close friends of Matthew Clanton. The publication implies that Mathew Clanton and William Vess were “associates” of John Andrew Murrell.
I found Mississippi records for both William Vess and Matthew Clanton; however, they are dated 1840, five years after the publication of Virgil A. Stewart’s narrative. Were they all previously in Tennessee at one time?
According to Holcomb.org, the area in which the above events took place, known as Tuscahoma (Choctaw Purchase), no longer exists. Therefore, any early records pertaining to the residents living in the areas that was once part of the Choctaw Purchase are likely scattered among several different counties.
In 1840, there are numerous land records for both William Vess and Matthew Clanton. William Vess can be found on the 1840 census record in Yalobusha, Mississippi.
I also found records for a William “Voss.” There is an 1848 land record for a William Voss, with a “heir” named John Voss. In addition, I discovered an early Mississippi marriage record (1803) for a William T. “Voss” and a Mary Caroline “Willis.”
There might be a William Voss Sr. and Jr., for that there is an 1814 probate record for a William Voss in Adams County, Mississippi, where William and Mary were married. I do not know if William “Vess” and William “Voss” are of the same family.
I am not entirely sure how William Vess and Mathew Clanton are connected to John A. Murrell from Tennessee. However, Virgil A. Stewart’s published narrative, seems to suggest they were associates “protecting” John A. Murrell.
I wonder if this legend inspired our Vess family story, for that genealogical records not only reveal William Vess with records under the “Voss” surname, but also family descriptions that John A. Murrell was somewhat a red-head. According to FindAGrave.com, it mentions him having “curling auburn hair.”
Could this mysterious William Vess/Voss have any connection with the “William Vess” shown connected to Peter and Willis Vess of White County, Tennessee? AND how would our Vess family know that the William “Vess” published in newspapers, used the “Voss” name too.
Originally Published September 27, 2021 • Updated February 24, 2024
The Vess family came over to America with an O’Donnell and O’Neill. O’Neill was an outlaw, wanted by the English Crown. He changed his name to Mac Hugh or something referring to his red hair. The Vess family loved and respected him.
Descendant of David Andrew Vess
The O’Donnell Vess
On Ancestry.com, many family trees show the father of Peter Vess as O’Donnell Vess from Tyrone County, Ireland.
I had the opportunity to meet a descendant of David Andrew Vess who kindly shared with me the story of O’Donnell Vess, stating it to be a very important family story.
I’ve researched the O’Donnell-Vess connection extensively, but found no genealogical records to support a connection. So, who was this Mac Hugh our family so highly respected?
I did; however, discovered a true historical event regarding an O’Donnell and O’Neill family during the 16th century in Ulster, Northern Ireland.
“Red Hugh O’Donnell” is a real person from Donegal Ireland who was rivals against the O’Neill family from Tyrone, Ireland. Red Hugh was in-prisoned by an English Lord in Dublin Castle, but later escaped with the help of the O’Neill family. Unfortunately, neither of them came to America; however, this is a well known Irish story that Irish settlers would have most certainly brought to the new world. But why was this story so important us?
O’Donnell – O’Neill families fought a Nine Year War in Ireland together and is a very important part of Ireland history.
Because the O’Donnell and O’Neill family did not seem to have connections with America or any direct connections with the Vess family (that I can tell), I began searching for American outlaws. Perhaps, the family story was a mix of different people and events?
Interestingly, during the time of David Andrew Vess, there was a notorious American outlaw who was highly respected by the residents in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. The Dark Corners included Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina where the Bellew and Gosnell families were well established; and David Andrew Vess married Magnolia Gosnell. The outlaws name was Lewis Redmond.
Again, I was unable to find a direct connection with the Vess family. Perhaps the family story…is just a story.
The Mysterious Hodge-Vess Connection
The story of the man named after his red-hair that the Vess family highly respected was something I forgot about until just recently, when I stumbled upon John “Red Head” Hodge.
The HODGE (HOGE) name has come up in discussion several times over the past year between me and the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, but we just don’t know how they fit into Vess Genealogy.
The Willis and Peter Vess lines appear to match closely with a HODGE family, but their connection is unknown.
Vincent Vess, who had researched the Hodge family much more extensively than I, had pointed out that there is a Hodge family living near the Vess family in White County, Tennessee.
Further research reveals that this Hodge family comes from Franklin County, Virginia (once part of Patrick-County, VA). I discovered that Robert Hodge, father of Abner Hodge (above) was living in a place called Chestnut Creek, about 30 miles away from William Vess/Voss & Peter Vess on Koger Creek in Patrick County, VA!
According to information provided to me from the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, we match closely with the descendants of Isham Hodge, Abner’s brother. However, we have yet to discover a connection.
Supposedly, Isham and Abner Hodge have a brother whose name is John “Red Head” Hodge. Is this the man named for his red hair that the Vess family highly respected???
John “Red Head” Hodge- Research In Progress
I’m still researching John “Red Head” Hodge.
There are numerous John Hodges (of course, with a name like John), but right now, my focus is on two of them:
The first one that caught my attention is a John “Red Head” Hodge , brother of Isham Hodge, who supposedly married Lucy Elizabeth Dalton, daughter of David Dalton Sr. of Rutherford County, NC.
Lucy Elizabeth Dalton is the sister of Nancy (Sally) Dalton, grandmother of Lucy Malinda Linnia Halford, wife of Andrew Logan Vess! However, other family trees, state she married Reuben Searcy instead (perhaps she married both). So, who is this Lucea Dalton and John Hodges in Franklin County, VA and is this John, in fact, John “Red Head” Hodge?
I mean, it would make sense considering the Vess and Dalton families have known each other for what seems like forever!
There is another John Hodge that some on Ancestry refer to as “Red Head” Hodge, but he resides in Abbeville, South Carolina and married Frances Anderson. According to other genealogy websites that provide more ancestral history, he was known as “Major” Hodge, for having served in the Revolutionary War. I am not sure if he is actually “Red Head” Hodge, but his presence in Abbeville is intriguing.
I wish I had more to share, but at this time, I am still researching.
We’ve been at a frustrating genealogical brick-wall for so long, that the brain is desperately looking for any kind of connection, even if it is not supported by evidence or lacks logical sense.
For instance, as I am still rooting for a Vess-Travers split in America, I came across this article about a Charles Travis/ Travers in Anson County, NC who supposedly (not confirmed) had brothers named John and James. Immediately, my thoughts raced back to different versions of our family story that referred to the three brothers as “Charles” Peter Vess, Jonathan Vess, and “James” Nathaniel Vess.” Desperate for connections can lead to wasted time and more dead ends; however, something extremely intriguing in the online article of Charles Travis/Travers caught my immediate attention which led me to some interesting new discoveries!!
Friendly Reminder: The opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.
Brief Summary of Charles Travis/Travers
According to the online article, Genealogy Report: Descendants of Charles Travis/Travers, Charles Travers was born between 1745-50 in North Carolina, he married Elizabeth HARRIS in Granville, North Carolina (abt 1770), and together had 7 children. Although it states he died in Illinois, research strongly suggests that Charles Travers may have stayed in Anson County, North Carolina (later to become Montgomery County, NC) and that it was his sons who moved out of state.
This source states that Charles Travers maybe a descendant of Dr. Edward Travers from Cork, Ireland; however, there hasn’t been any solid genealogical evidence to prove it, despite Dr. Edward Travers having a grandson named “Charles,” per his son’s Will. It is also noted that Charles had a brother named John and James, which I believe, if they are related to Dr. Edward Travers, John maybe the Travers family in Edgefield, South Carolina. Further researcher is needed to confirm a connection.
1790 Census Record : David Benson
Our Vess family has a couple of connections with the Gosnell and Bellew families of South Carolina. Early connections that we know of is with Nathaniel Vess who married Clarinda Bellew, a descendant of both the Bellew and Gosnell families. Another early connection, one on Peter’s line, is with David Andrew Vess, who married Magnolia Gosnell, whose 2nd great aunt is Clarinda Vess (Nathan’s wife).
Magnolia Gosnell’s family appears to be from Madison County, North Carolina with her father having been born in Greenville County, South Carolina, descendant of Charles Gosnell Jr. and Lucy Pruitt. I do not know where David Andrew Vess (from McDowell County, North Carolina) met Magnolia Gosnell (from Madison County, North Carolina), but research suggests the Vess and Gosnell families may have more history together than we originally thought, perhaps as long time friends or neighbors.
I’ve seen this name before countless times, but with not much of a clue as to whether it meant anything. But now, lets look back at the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina: Joshua Gosnell, Abraham Belue (Bellew) and there listed below them is a David Benson.
So, how does David Benson connection to Charles Travers??
Well, according to the online article about Charles Travers, the daughter of David Benson (Nancy Benson) married the son of Charles Travers (Thomas Travers). They were married in 1811, in Kentucky with Nancy being much younger than Thomas, which may suggest that Thomas had children prior to his marriage to Nancy.
With that discovery, I was able to research a little more on David Benson… David Benson married Elizabeth Pruitt (Pruette) who was born in South Carolina (1775). I wonder if she is related to Lucy Pruitt, wife of Charles Gosnell Jr, born of the Pruitt family in Spartanburg County, SC whose family has connections with the Pool, Hembree, and Bellew families in the Tyger River community???
According to the North Carolina Land Grants and Deeds website, David Benson was issued land (1795) on the branch of Webbs Creek in Rutherford County, North Carolina. Is this the same David Benson? The Webb family on Webbs Creek consisted of John, William, Elias, and Robert Webb and there is also a Lewis Bailey family. Webbs Creek branches off the Second Broad River (eastward). Cathey’s Creek also branches off the Second Broad River (westward), and west of the Second Broad River is the Bill’s Creek community. Is there a connection? I do not know yet, but perhaps it is worth noting.
Connection to Willis Vess: Montgomery County, NC
Charles Travers appears in 1790 Montgomery County, NC census record. Interestingly, we also find a very large Suggs family, specifically, a “Harbert Suggs.” So, where have I seen the name Suggs before??
Going back to the Franklin County, Alabama plat map to look at the Foxtrap area where, according to Anna Popejoy, the father of Willis Vess (John Vess) settled sometime between 1818-1820, you can find “Harbert Sugg” not too far away. Further research tells us Harbert obtained land from Huntsville (likely for Franklin, AL) as early as 1831. Also, several Sugg family sources state the Suggs family in Franklin County, Alabama did come from Montgomery County, North Carolina. Harbert Sugg’s mortality record, even states he was born in North Carolina.
Connection to Nathan Vess: Abraham Belyeu / Bellew in Anson County, NC
We know there was an Abraham Bellew in Anson County, NC (1790 census) , but we do not know if he is related to the Abraham Bellew on the 1790 South Carolina census listed next to Joshua Gosnell and David Benson. Perhaps the South Carolina Bellew is Abraham Bellew “Jr.”?? Further research is needed, but if David Benson is the David Benson mentioned in the article about Charles Travers, perhaps there is a connection.
While looking up the Suggs family, I came across Abraham Belyeu. According to an article on Thomas Sugg , written by Wynona Maxey (2008), Robert Sugg and Abraham Belyeu are witnesses on a land deed on Pee Dee River. This doesn’t exactly connect to Charles Travers, but it is worth investigating, considering Charles Travers supposedly lived on or near the Pee Dee River.
Connection To Peter Vess: Harris – Ledbetter Family
Helen M. Lu’s book, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, provides us great insight into the generation of Andrew Logan Vess and his brothers; however, just barely gives us a glimpse into Peter’s generation. According to Helen M. Lu, church records prior to 1827 have been lost and only one page in her book gives us an idea on who where early members of the church between 1827-1830 (Lu pg. 115).
Many of these names are well known: Whiteside, Vess, Dalton, Bagwell, Hill, Ledbetter, and Green; however, Harris is one that I do not recognize.
According to the article on Charles Travers, Charles Travers married Elizabeth Harris. The article also mentions that the Travers family were close to a “West” Harris family. A quick research reveals there was a Col. West Harris Jr. (Montgomery Co, NC) who married Edith Ledbetter, daughter of Charles and Frances Ledbetter. It will take some time to research the connection between the Ledbetter family in Anson County and the Ledbetter family in Rutherford County, but I bet they are related (even if distantly).
Going back to the complied list of early Bill’s Creek Baptist Church members [above], I see an unidentified Harris family. Looking up “Archibald Harris” only gives me information on an Archibald Harris in Anson County, NC (interesting), but I haven’t found an Archibald Harris in Rutherford County, NC, nor have I been able to find anything on the other listed Harris members.
A New Lead or Just Wishful Thinking
IF we did split directly from the TRAVERS family in America, perhaps it was with the Travers family in Montgomery County, North Carolina. AND IF, (A HUGE IF) we are related to the Travers family in Montgomery County, North Carolina, perhaps this explains Peter and Willis Vess having been born in North Carolina and Nathan Vess born in South Carolina; especially, if Nathan was a cousin rather than a brother.
Perhaps the Vess family was in Anson / Montgomery County and one of the Vess brothers (father of Nathan Vess) travelled with the Bellew family to South Carolina, which is where Nathan was supposedly born. The other Vess brother (father of Peter and Willis Vess), possibly named John, moved to Alabama with the Willis and Suggs families prior to 1830.
What about the promising Vice family? What about the VESS/VOSS/VEST families in Patrick, Rockbridge, and Augusta County in Virginia. What about the Voss family in Casewell County?
Well, maybe there is a connection with them too; families weren’t technically small back then. It is unlikely Peter, Willis and Nathan Vess are the only relatives of their generation. I mean, it wasn’t until just recently that we discovered that Peter and Willis Vess, not only are genetically related (same family line), but closely related!
Also, I just learned that the Pettit family traveled through Augusta County, Virginia on their way to South Carolina. Apparently, according to one source, the western part of Virginia was just giving away South Carolina land grants.
When it comes to Vess genealogy, there are always new leads and that is what makes Vess genealogy so frustrating.
Sources Lu, Helen M. Bill’s Creek Baptist Church Two Hundred Year History 1782–1982. United States, United States, 1984.
Although the VESS/VEST family of Patrick County, Virginia (1790-1801) are extremely intriguing and seem like a promising connection, I am drawn back to the Dark Corners of South Carolina. I decided to take another look at Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess. Looking at all my research, I have come to realize that the early families surrounding them, all came from South Carolina.
Peter: Pettit and Toney families. Willis: Nichols, Willis, Askews, Whitlock families (many more) Nathan: Bellew and Gosnell families
Of course, these families all have different origin-origins, like the Pettit family come from New Jersey, the Gosnell family come from Maryland, and the Nichols, Willis, Askews (Eskews) and Whitlock families come from Virginia; but all of them, just before they appear with our earliest known Vess ancestors (Peter, Willis, and Nathan) … were all in South Carolina; more specifically, the Tyger River area.
Tyger River Area: South Carolina’s Complicated Borders
The western portion of South Carolina has a complicated history with very messy borders, making it a nightmare to find family records. For instance, between 1769-1779, Tryon County, North Carolina and the Ninety-Six District in South Carolina overlap. Some residents in this area were issued land from the State of North Carolina while others were issued land from the state of South Carolina.
The Vice Family
I’ve looked for families with similar surnames to VESS in South Carolina a zillion times, but apparently, I overlooked the VICE family.
On the 1810 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I found a John Vice next to Nancy Poole. Nancy Poole reminds me of Nancy Pool, sister of Mary Ann Pool, who married Henry Pettit Sr (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess).
So, I searched the name “John Vice” in the South Carolina Digital Archives. One record of interest is a land record dated 1824 for Benjamin Nicholls on Thomsons Branch along the Tyger River. It includes familiar families such as Duncan, Moore, Nicholls, Pettit, and Willis.
Clearly intrigued, I began to research further…
Many early families are well documented by family historians and generally, with a few odd-ball keywords, a good chunk of their history can be found via Google. I was fortunate to find information pertaining to the VICE family on a Turley Family website.
Who Is John Vice
Land records show that the Vice family has been in the Tyger River community as early as 1782 and numerous sources say some members of the Vice family moved to Benton (now Calhoun) county, Alabama.
Research tells us that John Vice was born in Orange County, Virginia about 1755 and died in Spartanburg County, South Carolina in 1833. He is the son of Nathaniel Camp Vice (1730-1802) of Frederick County, Virginia.
Nathaniel Camp Vice is supposedly the son of Robert or John VESSEY of Frederick County, Virginia; however, the origins of VESSEY are not clear. Nathaniel Camp Vice migrated south and settled in Campbell County, Kentucky with many of his descendants rooting in Bath County, Kentucky.
Nathaniel’s son, John Vice (some note his name as John William Vice), married Frances Roebuck in 1773 in Chatham County, North Carolina, before settling in Spartanburg County, South Carolina. According to the Turley Family website, they had 10 children:
John Roebuck Vise abt. 1774
Nathaniel Vise abt. 1774 and married Dorcas MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Rhoda Vise abt. 1776 and married Peter LAWRENCE.
Levi Vise abt. 1778
George Vise abt. 1780 and married Elizabeth WALKER.
Reuben Vise 1782
Eliphous Hosea “Eli” Vise abt. 1785 and married Rebecca MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Elizabeth Vise 1787 in Spartanburg , SC and married Thomas WRIGHT.
Azariah “Zery” Vise abt. 1790
Jeremiah “Jere” Vise about 1790
Abner Vise about 1792 and married Lucinda PREWITT.
Jemima Vise about 1792
A Tyger River Baptist Church Connection
The Turley family website states: “John Vise and Frances Roebuck Vise were members of the Tyger River Baptist Church, also called Friendship Church. On the membership roll for 1801-1803…”
This is an incredible find, for that the Tyger River Baptist Church was part of the same church association as Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. We also know that the Pettit family were also members of the Tyger River Baptist Church.
According to history.ky.gov, the location of the Tyger River Baptist Church is unknown however is said to have been located in the northern portion of Greenville County, close to the North Carolina border. This would ideally put the church very close to the Glassy Mountain community and the communities along the Pacelot River (North and South Carolina border in modern day Polk County) where we find many early families from Tryon County (like the Logan family).
I bet there are a lot of interesting families listed as members on the Tyger River Baptist Church Membership Rolls; unfortunately, these records do not appear to be available online nor are they physically available near me.
Census Records: Spartanburg County, South Carolina
On the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families: 1. Boston Best 2. Henry Pattit (Pettit) 3. Joshua Pattit (Pettit) 4. John Wice (Vice)
A few pages over, you will find the following families: 1. Abraham Belue (Bellew) 2. Joshua Gosnell
*The Bise families on the 1790 census might actually be part of the Vise family.
On the 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families interestingly close together: Nat Vice (Nathaniel Vice, John Vice son) John Willis Richard Willis (find him on land records with Vice family)
DNA Connections
Autosomal DNA Results For me, many of the names on the VICE family tree frequently show up in my DNA relatives list, especially via the Turley, McPherson, and White families.
Even more interestingly, I have a long list of distant DNA relatives with family trees showing them as descendants of the VICE family and not just through one VICE family line, but numerous VICE family lines. Most are via John and Nathaniel Vice (sons of John and France Roebuck Vice of South Carolina) and others are from several different descending lines (sons and daughters) from Nathaniel Camp Vice in Kentucky. And, to make it even more interesting, they share DNA relatives with DNA relatives who are descendants on the Willis Vess line.
Pettit – Vice Connection The granddaughter of John Vice married Benjamin Pettit who is related to Henry Pettit Sr. (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess) through Joshua Pettit.
John Vice and Henry Pettit have a common neighbor: Andrew Thomson. *Correction: Andrew Thomson maybe the surveyor. 1. 1784 land record: Pacelot River / Ninety-six District Henry Pettit, William Pool, and Andrew Thomson 2. 1786 land record: Tyger River / Ninety-six District John Vise, Andrew Thomson, John Oshields, Joel Hembree, David Grimes, John Butler *Pettit and Hembree families are related.
The Next Chapter: Vice Family
I am really excited about discovering the Vice family! Not only do they have a similar surname to VESS, but they are also in the right place at the right time, surrounded by many familiar families that connect with Peter, Willis, and Nathan!
Also, because the Vice family is supposedly from Frederick County, Virginia, there is still a chance for a possible connection with the Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia! So, I am extremely excited!! This could be our family’s missing link OR I am embarking upon another goose-chase!
I am extremely excited to announce that we have been given the opportunity to start a VESS FAMILY DNA PROJECT!
A huge thanks to Marilyn Barton, for allowing us to revive her Vess Family DNA project on Familytreedna.com and also, a huge thanks to Michael Travers and Vincent Vess for managing it for us!
How To Join?
To join and participate, you must have an account with Familytreedna.com.
Click on this link for step-by-step instructions from yourdnaguide.com.
How Long Does The Transfer Process Take
Familytreedna.com states it takes 3-5 business days to process, but some reviews state it could be as quick as a few hours; it all depends on how many transfers they have to process (it’s a queue system).
However, you can join the Vess Family DNA Project and explore public Haplotrees while you wait for your results to process.
$19 To Access Additional Tools
It is my understanding that a free account opened by transferring DNA results from another vendor, allows you access to FamilyFinder and DNA Projects. However, one must pay $19 to unlock additional tools such as the Chromosome Browser, MyOrigins, and AncientOrigins.
Which isn’t that bad, considering you’re not having to buy an expensive DNA kit again or pay any kind of subscription to continue to access information.
Who Can Participate?
Any member of Familytreedna.com can join the Vess Family DNA Project! It is my understanding that this DNA project is not restricted to any specific type of testers and thus, all DNA tests are able to provide valuable information to the project.
Information provided by Autosomal DNA testers (both genders) allow us to make new family connections.
Information provided by mtDNA testers allow us to explore maternal roots.
Information provided by Y-DNA testers allow us to identify and connect different VESS/ VOSS/VASS/ VEST family lines.
Information provided by Big-Y testers allow us to further investigate and unravel the mystery between the Vess and Travers families.
The more participants, the more DNA information we can obtain and analyze, and then the more connections we can make!
Transferring Y-DNA Test Results
If you have already done a Y-DNA test through a different company that used the Sorenson 33 or 46-marker test, you can transfer your results to Familytreedna.com to participate in the Y-DNA portion of the Vess Family DNA Project.
I am so thrilled to have finally reached a new chapter in Vess Genealogy!
When I started this blog last Fall (August 2020), it was simply just a place to organize digital sources and share my genealogy experiences researching the Vess name. I gave it 2 months!
Remarkably, Vess Genealogy kept on going! I never would have ever imagined I would get to work with so many different people interested in the VESS name nor get an opportunity to meet so many different VESS families! This has been such an amazing genealogy adventure!
A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone helping me unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!
If New To Vess Genealogy, Here’s What You Missed!
For generations, three different VESS lines (maybe more) haven’t been able find their ancestors prior to 1820. A frustrating endeavor leaving many of us to just give up.
However, since last Fall, we achieved the following:
1. We learned more about Peter Vess and his family. 2. We learned a lot about Andrew Logan Vess and his family. 3. We likely uncovered Nathan’s origins in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. 4. We discovered that Peter and Willis Vess are closely related and that our family is closely related to the Travers family! 5. We explored families in Knob’s Creek from Peter’s 1820 census record. 6. We discovered “Vess” records in Virginia connected to an unknown Vest/Vess family! 8. We confirmed (via DNA) that the VESS family is not related to the BASS, BEST, WEST, or VEST families; eliminating them as possible family connections.
Brief Recap On Vess Genealogy
We now know that Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess are related; however, we have not yet determined how they are related to each other.
Peter and Willis were born in North Carolina and Nathan was born in South Carolina. Peter first appears on record in Rutherford County, North Carolina in 1820 on Knobs Creek with the Toney, Pettit, and Mooney families (all members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church).
Nathan’s first appearance on record is also in Rutherford County, North Carolina, but in 1830 with his in-laws, the Bellew family. The Bellew and Gosnell families are related and are prominent families in Glassy Mountain, Greenville County, South Carolina (aka Dark Corners). Also, Peter’s grandson, David Andrew Vess married Magnolia “Maggie” Gosnell, who is related to Nathan’s wife, Clarinda Bellew.
Willis first appears on record in Franklin County, Alabama in 1830. According to Anna Popejoy, long time researcher of the Vess and Whitlock families, states that the father of Willis Vess (John Vess) had been living in Foxtrap since 1819. Y-DNA analysis, via familytreedna.com, confirms Willis Vess and Peter Vess (Andrew Logan Vess) are definitely part of the same VESS family.
Familytreedna.com (FTDNA) also shows that the VESS and TRAVERS family are closely related; however, we do not know how they are related. There are several reasons as to why FTDNA may group two different surnames closely together; either we are extremely close cousins, one family that split apart during a time before surnames, or a male Travers ancestor took on the Vess name (orvice versa).To unravel this mystery, it would be extremely helpful to have more male Vess descendants participate in Y-DNA Testing.
The Travers family is from Lancashire, England and they have traced their family to Dorchester, Maryland. Whether there is a connection between the Vess and Travers family in Colonial America has yet to be discovered (the families may have split long before they arrived in America).
With the help of Y-DNA and documented family histories, we’ve been able to eliminate the BASS, BEST, WEST, and VEST families as potential ancestors for the Vess family.
The BASS family has a rich Native American background. The BEST family (original surname BOSCH) can trace their family back to their arrival in the 1740’s with the Ecker family (in-laws) from Germany. The WEST family has been ruled out by their extensive West Family DNA Project. And the VEST family, descendants of John Daniel Vest belong to an entirely different Haplogroup than our VESS family. To my knowledge, there is no available DNA information on the VASS/VOSS/ VAULX families.
We have recently discovered a VEST/VESS family in Patrick County, Virginia who may be related to the VEST/VESS family in Rockbridge, Virginia. We have yet to find any records suggesting that they may belong to the VEST family (John Daniel Vest), which is extremely encouraging for our VESS family, andtherefore a new chapter begins!
I am in the process of investigating the Life of Willis Vess and hopefully, with any luck, we can uncover some of Anna Popejoy’s research to help us! I plan to explore more families in and surrounding Patrick County, Virginia – including Surry and Stokes County, North Carolina. All in addition to finding out more about the VOSS/VASS/ VAULX families who seem to live very close to the TRAVERS family in both Dorchester, Maryland and the abolished Albemarle County in North Carolina.
We so badly want to connect our VESS family to William Tunwell VESTof Stokes County, North Carolina; mostly, because it seems to be the only thing that makes the most sense!
While researching Willis Vess in Alabama, I took a slight detour back to the VEST family of Virginia, because I discovered a VEST family 2 counties east of Willis Vess taunting me with records as early as 1818. I had to figure out who they were.
Long story short, I searched for every early VEST record I could find in Virginia and started plotting them on a map. Then, with the help of Y-DNA information provided by a fellow researcher, I started the process of elimination. The final results surprisingly revealed another VEST / VESS family!
Why Does William Tunwell Vest Seem Like A Connection?
Despite having BEST, VOSS, and VASS families also in North Carolina to consider, I was hoping there was a connection with William Tunwell VEST; mostly, because he makes the most sense for the time, place, and names.
Peter Vess Peter Vess of Rutherford County, NC was born between 1791-1794 in North Carolina and most of his records are found under the “VEST” surname; except for the 1830 census (Voss) and his 1831 land record (Vess).
After his death sometime before 1844, the “VEST” surname continued with his wife Catherine and their sons, as shown in Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu. It wasn’t until 1849, when the “Vess” surname really stuck, in both census and church records. Therefore, it is easy to assume that Peter maybe connected to the VESTfamily.
We were even 100% confident that we had discovered his connection with the VEST family when we found a Surry County War of 1812-1814 record listing a “Peter VEST.” Not only is Surry County right next to Stokes County in North Carolina, but also the names of the other soldiers listed with Peter VEST seem to have connections with the grandchildren of William Tunwell VEST through his son Isham VEST. Because there doesn’t appear to be any VEST families in Surry County, the VEST family next door (in Stokes County) seems like a good fit.
A possible connection to William Tunwell VEST became even more enticing when records for Peter Vess suggested his father may have been named John Vess (1831 Rutherford Co. land grant record). According to the Last Will and Testament of William Tunwell VEST (1812), he just so happens to have a son named John VEST!
Willis Vess William Tunwell Vest also seems like a potential ancestor to Willis Vess.
Willis Vess was born in North Carolina (abt) 1810, supposedly to “John Vess and Maragaret Vaughn” who are said to have also been born in North Carolina. Because William Tunwell VEST had a son named John VEST, it appeared there could be a connection; however, John VEST married Eliza RAY (not Margaret Vaughn). Of course, John could have been married twice, but records show us that John VEST (despite who he was married to) appears to have been living in North Carolina (or Indiana-whichever source you pick) during the time that the father of Willis Vess was living in Alabama; therefore they must not be the same person.
Nathan Vess Interestingly, there haven’t been any plausible ideas between William Tunwell Vest and Nathan Vess. Because Nathan was born in South Carolina, one could possibly conclude he is Peter’s cousin rather than his brother. So, Nathan’s lack of connection to the VEST family in Stokes County, NC never really seemed like such a big deal.
The VEST & VESS Families Are Not Related
According to information from FamilytreeDNA.com, the VEST and VESS families are not related! In fact, they don’t even share the same Haplogroup!
The descendants of John Daniel VEST (VEST family of Virginia) belong to Haplogroup-I, whereas the descendants of Willis Vess and Andrew Logan Vess (our VESS family) belong to Haplogroup- R (R1a). That’s quite a distance from each other on the Y-Haplogroup tree.
So, we can pretty much eliminate any VEST family related to John Daniel Vest as being possible ancestors, including William Tunwell VEST of Stokes County, North Carolina.
I was holding onto William Tunwell VEST for a long time, just in case; however, I eventually discovered that he is the son of John Daniel VEST.
In the Last Will and Testament of John Daniel Vest (1765) of Chesterfield County, Virginia, John names his wife “Ann Vest” (likely Charolette Ann Bakes) as well as his 7 children: “John Vest, Valentine Vest, Elizabeth Vest, James Vest, George Vest, Phillip Vest, and William Tunwell Vest.” [Transcribed by Sandra Lake Lassen March 1993 – Ancestry.com]
By the way, I discovered the VEST family near Willis Vess in Alabama are descendants of John Daniel Vest through George Washington Vest– so, no relation to Willis Vess.
Mapping VEST Families
Instead of trying to untangle the many different branches of the VEST family, I decided it would be better to us their records to plot them all on a map. During this process, I came to discover that a lot of VEST families do seem to be descendants of John Daniel Vest and Charolette Ann Bakes. The family appears to have originated from Chesterfield and Powhatan County, VA and then migrated westward into Bedford County, then down into Franklin and Floyd Counties, before conquering the rest of the United States.
After finishing my map, two VESS/VEST families who do not seem to have any connection with the John Daniel Vest family stood out!
The Map The counties [below] highlighted inredcontain VEST records. The counties marked with an X have records that strongly suggest a relationship with John Daniel Vest. And, the counties left, with no X, have records with both the VESS and VEST surname.
This map is not 100% accurate. It is very likely that there are areas and families I missed; especially, since documentation of these VESS-VEST families is scarce and require deep digging into Virginia archives. The purpose of this map is to see if we could identify any “separate” families, such as those using the VESS surname.
Exploring VESS/VEST Families
Rockbridge County and Patrick County, Virginia are the only two counties where I have found records with the VESS name and families whose records seem to use the VESS and VEST surname interchangeably, and interestingly, neither of them seem to have any records that suggest (at this time) they are connected to the John Daniel Vest family! So, who are they and do they have any connection to our VESS family?
VESS/VEST family of Rockbridge, Virginia
According to my ancestral DNA, I have distant DNA-relatives who are descendants of Addison Vess of Rockbridge County, Virginia through my VESS line. My project, of course, could be flawed as the connection could be distant, possibly connected between different families related to Addison Vess.
However, I used the same search method again for the VEST name and more DNA-relatives came up; all related to Vess families in Rockbridge, VA. I did not get any DNA-relatives descending from the John Daniel Vest family.
The Vest/Vess family living in Rockbridge are found near Colliers Creek and Kerrs Creek. Library of Congress Looking at this map [below], there are family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Hostetter, Ailstock, Noel, Morris, and Tolly, and Armstrong.
William, Peter, & Samuel VESS/VEST of Patrick County
As mentioned in a previous post, “What We Know So Far,” we recently discovered a Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia who we have no idea (like the Rockbridge family) as to whether they are related to the VESS or VEST family (perhaps neither).
I was provided a list of land deeds for Patrick County, Virginia (1791-1801) to compare to the residents in Tryon County, North Carolina (1769-1779) to see if there was any kind of connection. Unfortunately, I did not find anything significant, for that Tryon County records are much older than the Patrick County records and it just wouldn’t make sense that families would travel so far south just to end back up North. I guess they could have, but probably unlikely during a time when families were migrating out west and down south.
The records we find in Patrick County, Virginia include a William, Peter, and a Samuel Vess (VEST/VOSS) who lived on the border of Patrick County and Henry County (as shown on the mapbelow) in Bull Mountain, North Mayo River, and Koger Creek, just below Franklin County, Virginia.
These records also show family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Duncan, Dodson, Willis, Watson, Reynolds, Sharp, Hooker, and Randal.
HAIRSTON & PENN Families: A Little Local History While researching some of the families on this deed list, I discovered that the HAIRSTON and PENN families (both on the deed list) have a bit of history in the area.
George HAIRSTON built Beaver Creek Plantation which was a tobacco plantation and a very large slave-trading post in Martinsville, VA (east of Koger Creek in Henry Co.). He served under Col. Abraham PENN who was the original owner of the land that George Hairston built his plantation on (using a royal grant). The PENN family built “Poplar Grove” plantation in Patrick County, VA near Patrick Springs (west of North Mayo River). And both HAIRSTON and PENN families married into the STOVALL family- all connected.
There appears to be several plantations in the area, all of which utilized slaves and indentured servants. Indentured servants generally had a 7 year contract and in return for their service, their masters often granted them land. Looking at records on Patrick County, VA Genweb, we find deed records referred to an “Indenture,” where land was transferred to the “apprentice” after all debts and terms of their contract have been satisfied.
Jonathan William Vess of Texas: Koger Creek According to the deed list, William Vess/Vest is shown near a Herron/ Heron family and as previously known, marriage records show Elizabeth Herron having married Johnathan William Vess in 1791 in Patrick County, Virginia. Johnathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron traveled with Stephen F. Austin from Missouri to Texas (Republic of Texas) during the 1820’s. This William Vess/Vest on the Patrick County deed list may either be Jonathan himself or perhaps his father.
Peter Vess and William Vess/Voss: North Mayo River According to the deed list, west of Koger Creek are residents of the North Mayo River which includes Peter Vess, William Vess/Voss, Samuel Vess, William Willis, and William Sharp.
This Vess/Voss family is most interesting for that we see them with the Willis, Dodson, and Sharp families (family surnames that are also found in Franklin County, Alabama with Willis Vess).
To make things even more interesting, we found a 1785 marriage record for Peter Vess and Pugnance Vaughn in Henry County. (Henry County is next to Patrick County, and there was a time when both counties were one, called Patrick-Henry County)
What is interesting about this, is that according to Anna Popejoy, the parents of Willis Vess were John Vess and Margaret Vaughn. To this day, we do not know where she got this information; however, we are now wondering, if this is them.
Perhaps their full names were John Peter Vess and Pugnance Margaret Vaughn??? Also note, that the brother of Willis Vess is supposedly “John Peter Vess,” perhaps he was a John Peter Vess Jr.?
In addition, records also show land transactions between Peter Vess and Samuel Vess via John Duncan. At the bottom of this particular deed list (with Peter and Samuel), you will also find a Whitlock family.
Are These VESS/VEST Families Related
It is plausible that the Rockbridge VESS/VEST family and the Patrick County VESS/VEST families are related to each other, for that records of the Patrick County family (earliest record 1785) come before the records of the Rockbridge family (earliest record 1818); suggesting one of the Vess members may have migrated to Rockbridge, Virginia from Patrick County, Virginia.
It has also been observed that Samuel Vess of Patrick County, Virginia disappeared before Peter and William Vess; which makes us wonder if he is (or is related to) Samuel Harvey Vess of Rockbridge, Virginia (1830 records).
We do not know if they are genetically related to the our Vess family; however, genealogical records seem to support some kind of connection.
Full Recap
The Vest family of Virginia and our Vess family are not related (two separate Haplogroups).
There is no genetic relationship between our Vess family and William Tunwell Vest in Stokes County, North Carolina.
Maps reveal a separate VESS/VEST family residing in Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia. It is not yet know if these two VESS/VEST families are related, but it is plausible considering the record dates.
We have likely discovered the families of Jonathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron (of Republic of Texas) in Patrick County, Virginia on Koger Creek.
We have discovered that there is a Peter, Samuel, and William VESS/VOSS on the North Mayo River with a Willis, Sharp, and possibly a Whitlock family.
The area in which we find these families in Patrick County, has a history of plantations and records that suggest some of the land owners were once indentured servants.
Many family surnames found in both Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia are familiar names seen elsewhere in Vess family research; especially, regarding Peter and Willis Vess.
No definite conclusions can be made at this time; however, these new discoveries seem promising! It appears that a new chapter in Vess Genealogy has just begun!
If you are or know someone who is a male descendant with the VESS or VEST surname, please consider participating in Y-DNA testing through FamilytreeDNA.com to help us unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!
Again, a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who has shared their findings with me on the Vess name in effort to piece together VESS family history!
Vess Genealogy has been stuck at a massive roadblock for generations. In my opinion, I believe there was a name change.
Records do exist. Either we are missing the places they might be (due to county changes) or we are overlooking records, because the surname is indexed wrong due to illegible handwriting.
Our ancestors lived in an area during a time where county lines were constantly changing, which means there are probably some counties that we may never in a zillion years ever think to look for records.
The biggest reason I believe records do exist is because so many other early families of western North Carolina have a paper-trail.
Okay, it is not exactly the neatest of paper-trails for that when you get into early records (early 1800’s and back), surnames are really butchered (horribly misspelled) to the point that even if you squint and look at it sideways, it might (if you shout it from a distancewith a little echo) sound phonetically similar to the surname that it was meant to be. So, in most cases, it is the content that usually confirms the persons identity more so than the indexed surname linked to the record.
My point is, if a good portion of early families in the same area have records, there is a good chance the Vess family also has records. Unfortunately, there are too many different surname variants and counties to explore. If we want to move forward a little faster, perhaps genetic genealogy can help us.
Check out this cool video below – A North Carolina dialect that evolved independently due to isolation since the 1600’s. If that is anywhere close to what our ancestors used to talk like, no wonder names were horribly misspelled.
What Is Genetic Genealogy
It is my understanding, as I am 100% new to this, that genetic genealogy is a new approach to tackling difficult ancestors who do not want to be found.
Instead of digging through dusty old archives for records to make family connections, we can now make family connections with the help of DNA relatives. Unfortunately, the name of our stubborn ancestors are not embedded into our DNA, but DNA-relatives can point us in the direction, like a compass, to locate genealogy records that might help us identify a common ancestor.
Essentially, the idea is to use both methods (DNA and records) together to quickly and more accurately make new connections on the family tree.
Y-Chromosome DNA Testing is GOLD
Y-Chromosome DNA testing is gold, but without a lot of participants, it can also be lead.
Every male descendant carries a gene called a Y-Chromosome. Geneticist’s extract the DNA from the Y-Chromosome, analyze it and assign it to a Y-Chromosome Haplogroup (A-R).
A haplogroup consists of a group of people who share very similar DNA with one another suggesting a single common ancestor. An extremely ancient common ancestor.
The more people who participate in Y-DNA testing, the more these Haplogroups can be broken down into smaller groups called a subclade. Subclades are subgroups of Haplogroups. Assignment is largely based on single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP’s), which are specific mutations that correlate to specific paternal lines. Every time a mutation occurs over thousands of years, that genetic line branches off into a new subclade (or so that is my vague understanding of it).
As more DNA is collected and analyzed, the subclade may change; either resulting in grouping more people together into one subclade (moving from one existing subclade to another existing subclade) or having enough new information to create an entirely new subclade.
The VESS family is assigned to Haplogroup R. Haplogroup R has many different branches (subclades).
When members of the VESS family submitted their DNA, a new subclade was created where they were grouped together with the TRAVERS family (we are closely related), and then, when some members of the VESS family completed the BIG-Y Chromosome test (a more in-depth analysis), the VESS family was later assigned a new subclade although still grouped together with the TRAVERS family. This suggests a mutation.
It is interesting that our group has two different surnames and it kind of makes you wonder who came first: TRAVERS or VESS?
Did a male descendant of the TRAVERS family take the VESS surname, maybe from a step-parent, or was adopted by a VESS family or vice versa. There is also the possibility that our common ancestor could be from a time when surnames didn’t exist. OR we aren’t as closely related as we think and as more people begin to test, the VESS and TRAVERS family might drift apart into two different groups. The only thing I know for sure, is that it is a mystery we cannot solve today.
However, we did identify a new VESS line using Y-Chromosome testing: Willis Vess of Alabama.
The best thing about this DNA database, is that participants often note their oldest known ancestor which gives genealogists a specific location on a map to look for genealogy records. Although we know Andrew Logan Vess and Willis Vess are related, we have yet to determine how they are related to one another on the VESS family tree.
This is what I mean by Y-Chromosome DNA testing being gold but also lead. It has the potential to unravel many VESS mysteries, but without more participants, those mysteries will remain in the dark.
Male descendants carrying the VESS surname or one similar to it (VASS, VOSE, VOSS, VEST, VAUX, etc) are greatly encouraged to participate in Y-DNA testing through Familytreedna.com as there might be a genetic connection.
Autosomal DNA Testing
While Y-Chromosome DNA testing is a more direct route to identifying our paternal ancestors, autosomal DNA testing is more or less like taking the scenic route.
Y-Chromosome DNA tests provide you a much bigger genealogical timeline of just one paternal line that dates back to ancient times, whereas ancestral DNA tests are autosomal, which means they only go back 6-8 generations and is saturated by DNA-relatives on both sides of the family (paternal and maternal lines).
For me, my DNA-relatives related to the VESS line would mainly consist of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess (my third great-grandfather-6th gen). It would just barely (if at all) pick up DNA-relatives descending from Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess or even their parents. It greatly depends on how many of their descendants have submitted an ancestral DNA test and just how far they descend down the Vess-family line.
With an 8-generation family tree, a DNA test by my mom, and access to DNA information provided by a close family member who is a generation older than me, I have been able to identify DNA-relatives specifically connected to the VESS family line via a lengthy tedious process of elimination.
Fortunately, my mom’s DNA test does half the work for me by identifying DNA-relatives on her side of the family. Then, I look at shared DNA relatives with the family member who is a generation older than me to further identify DNA-relatives that are most likely VESS-related. Because this family member is a generation older than me, their DNA test would detect more DNA-relatives, those who are too distant to be detected by my DNA test.
Any DNA-relative with less than a cM count of 8, do not make it onto the DNA-relatives list (it’s too distant), even though there is a relation on the family tree. In theory, it would probably be best to have our grandparents do an ancestral autosomal DNA test. cM (centimorgan)= the amount of shared DNA.
My Search Method
I started by making a list of DNA-relatives who carry the VESS name. Next, I made a list of DNA-relatives with the VESS name who also have a public VESS family tree. Lastly, I made a list of DNA-relatives who do not carry the VESS name, but have a public family tree showing they descend (at one point) from a VESS family member.
For each DNA-relative listed, I noted their oldest known ancestor (some I had to research a bit) and I also had to check their shared-relatives list to make sure they didn’t share DNA with my mom (which was the most time consuming part).
My Discoveries
At a glance, autosomal ancestral DNA tests tell us nothing; except, we have a lot of cousins. But after an extensive process of elimination, then entering the information into a spreadsheet, and finally organizing the information from closest DNA-relatives to most distant DNA-relatives does it actually start to get interesting.
1) As expected, majority of our shared DNA-relatives are descendants of Andrew Logan Vess.
2) As you scroll down towards more distant DNA-relatives, we start to see connections with Willis Vess. Based on this, we can probably confidently say that Willis and Peter Vess are very closely related.
3) Willis Vess seems closer to us than Nathan Vess; which may suggest Nathan’s line has either ended or not many of his descendants have done an ancestral DNA test.
4) Also as expected, the autosomal DNA tests just barely detect DNA-relatives who are descendants of Josiah, Alfred, and Alexander Vess (brothers of Andrew Logan Vess).
5) Interestingly, there are a few DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is one I do not recognize:
–Susan Ann Elizabeth VESS (b. 1856 Rutherford Co. NC) and Columbus MCGINNIS *connected to Ledbetter tree and father is noted as Thomas William VEST of Tennessee
–Elizabeth Louise VESS (b. abt 1845 North Carolina) and William LANNING (marriage Henderson, NC)
–Everline VESS and James STEWART (marriage Colbert, Alabama)
–James Marvin VESS (b. 1853 South Carolina) and Sallie Octavia SPRUELL
**One of the Elizabeth’s might be the daughter of Peter Vess
6) But even more interesting are DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is Addison Vess/Vest.
You would think this is a solid connection to the VEST family of Virginia, but if you look at the family trees for Addison VESS/VEST, they are not well documented and there is no consistency with Addison’s children or parents, which is a RED FLAG in genealogy.
Final Conclusions
I am not an expert, so please keep in mind my search method could be flawed and thus the information within this post could be highly inaccurate.
We still do not have enough information to find new ancestors, but we do have enough genetic evidence to start digging deeper into the life of Willis Vess without wondering whether or not we are wasting our time. Yes, Y-Chromosome testing confirmed he is related to Peter Vess, but autosomal DNA testing suggests the relation is much closer than we think.
Also, we might want to start to investigate Addison VESS/VEST for that his name appeared quite consistently in the chart below. The reason he showed up, is because his descendants some how took on the VESS name rather than keeping the VEST name like other VEST families; in which I think is intriguing. Why did this particular VEST line evolve into a VESS line?
Prior to 1820, the “Vess” name seems scarce. This is either because the Vess family just recently arrived to America or that there was a name change. Today’s research strongly suggests a name change.
When a surname is misspelled, we often tend to overlook important records. My genealogy game plan to bring these records to light is to research the neighbors of Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess and investigate any nearby families with a similar surname. So far, I have a couple of excellent contenders with the VEST, VOSS, BEST, and BASS families. Unfortunately, I have yet to find any documents to confirm a direct connection with any of them.
With a handful of different families with similar surnames already piled high on my research plate, I had no intention on investigating anymore families; however, I would be foolish to disregard a family whose family story seems quite similar to our own family story…
The VASS Family: Sounds Oddly Familiar
I have spent years reaching out to different families with similar surnames in hopes one would have a similar family story to ours, but nothing ever came close until now…
I stumbled upon the VASS family with a document that wasn’t even about the VASS family itself, but more so about a man named Pendleton in Virginia whose daughter married a Vass. I can’t even tell you why I was looking at Pendleton to begin with, which happens a lot.
In genealogy, one document often leads to another document, then to another and another to the point you’re not exactly sure who it is that you were looking for in the first place! Honestly, I am pretty sure this all started with looking at map.
As I was saying, I stumbled upon a document that led me to more documents about the VASS family in Virginia. After reviewing my notes, I was shocked by how similar their family story is to ours…
1) Instead of Ireland, their “long time” family story has always been about “3 brothers from Germany.” 2) Their name used to be pronounced as “Voss” (just like us). 3) Some say they are German in origin and others say Scotland. (just like us, but instead of Scotland, it is Ireland).
There are a couple of documents pertaining to the VASS family, some of which strongly suggest they are Scottish, as part of the ROSS-Clan, with surname variants of Vaux, Vaus, and Wass. The Wass version is what they believe mistakes them for German. One source states the original name was DE-VALLIBUS; in my opinion, sounds French.
The VASS family was supposedly a prominent family in Virginia via John Vass and Rachel Pendleton. Their descendants eventually went down into North Carolina with the variant surname VOSS. They settled in parts of Casewell and Pasquotank Counties. [Note: There is Greenbury Voss/Vess in Casewell County]
Furthermore, there is a Vincent Vass (b. 1790) who married Mary Cosner living in Stokes County, North Carolina during the early 1800’s. This is interesting, because it means that William Tunwell VEST was not the only family in the area at the time with a similar surname to “VESS.” Also, we have a Peter Vest on a War of 1812 Surry County, NC record that we have not been able to connect to either the VESS or VEST family.
The VASS family is supposedly connected to the North Carolina VOSS family, which got me thinking: Is Frederick “Bass” of Anson County, NC, neighbors with the Bellew family, related to this VASS/VOSS mix?
The document linking the VASS/VOSS family (John Vass & Rachel Pendleton) to Vincent Vass cuts off and does not mention how they are related; unfortunately, I have not been able to find the original publication to read onto the next page.
I have just barely scratched the surface of the VASS family. As I mentioned before, this search initially began with looking at maps, in which I think has something to do with the names Whitlock, Vaughn, & Thompson scribbled on a piece of paper next to the name Pendleton. Of course, I didn’t jot down their connection!
Glasgow, Scotland
All this mention of Scotland, reminded me of Glasgow, Scotland. See, my DNA results show ancestors having once living in Glasgow, Scotland. This intrigues me, because in the 1820-1830’s, we see records for a “Vess” family arriving to America from Glasgow. I do not know if there is a connection yet, but it is interesting nonetheless.
The VOSE Family: Lancashire, England
As if the pile of families with similar surnames wasn’t big enough, the VASS family led me to another:
There is one source that made a brief connection between the VASS and VOSE family, in which is not well understood. In my opinion, it seems as if they were connected together, because both families share the surname variant of VAUX. However, before tossing this family aside into the “maybe” pile, one particular thing caught my eye: The VOSE family is from Lancashire, England.
This brings me to the TRAVERS family of Lancashire, England. It is my understanding that Y-DNA data currently suggests that the VESS and TRAVERS families are related and it is believed that the two families split “prior to mid-1650.”
Interestingly, I came across a 1784 marriage record for a Mary TRAVERS and an Edward VOCE (VOSE) in Lancashire, England, but no family tree to determine further connections (if any).
The VOSE family is originally from Normandy. Interestingly, (in my opinion) the name DE-VALLIBUS that is supposedly associated with the VASS family, seems more fitting for this VOSE family.
In the early 1600’s, Robert and Sarah Vose migrated to America. Further research shows that the VOSE family prominently living in Massachusetts with no mention of any family migrating South. So with that, I tucked the VOSE family away with the WEST family- ruling them out completely.
Henry Vose of Virginia
Interestingly, buried within a plethora of documentation about the VOSE family in Massachusetts, there is this tiny bit that reads: “Henry Vose, who arrived in Virginia in 1653.”houseofnames.com
Now, THAT is much closer to the Carolina’s! I decided to type his info into Ancestry.com where I came across this piece of genealogy gold [right]!
He arrived in North Hampton, Virginia in 1653, sponsored by Anti. Hoskins. And guess what other name is listed with his: William Willis!
This is interesting, because we think the Willis Vess family in Alabama (from North Carolina) might have a connection with a Willis family.
Of course, this doesn’t confirm anything.
No Solid Connections Yet
Although I am disappointed that no new connections have been made, this new information is encouraging.
This new information isn’t pointing me into a new direction (which is exciting), but more so back to where I’ve already been; meaning, there is a good chance I was on the right track, but missed something! I just have to figure out what.
So far, I have recognized that research seems to be on opposite ends of our family history timeline and we are just needing to fill in a 140+/- year gap. We can trace our lineage to Peter, Nathan, and Willis and we know (via DNA) that at some point they were connected to the Travers family in England. So, roughly between 1650 – 1791 is missing.
The earliest record I have on Peter Vess (Vest) is his 1820 census record for Rutherford County, North Carolina.
I have determined that he was living on “Knob Creek” in 1820; however, according to a map of the Broad River Basin, there are two Knob Creeks. One closest to Bill’s Creek (Bill’s Creek Baptist Church) off the Main Broad River and one closet to Lincoln County off the First Broad River.
I have researched all the families listed on the same census page as Peter and I have yet to confirm which Knob’s Creek Peter was likely living on in 1820. However, I have compared all the names, top to bottom, on the same census page [pg. 377] to the Member list dated 1829-1836 [pg. 115] in Helen M. Lu’s book,Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, and discovered something remarkable: 1820 Rutherford County Census.
Esom Logan Peter Vest David Mooney Henry Petit (not sure if this is Sr. or Jr.). If it reads “Esq.,” it would be Jr., because he was a Judge. James Young Abraham Toney Francis Young
These men [above] are the only men on that census page (interestingly grouped around Peter) that are connected to Bill’s Creek Baptist church between 1828-1836. Are they neighbors or family?
David Mooney’s children become members in the 1830’s. Peter Vest and Abraham Toney were members between 1829-1836. Henry Pettit Sr. became a member in the 1830’s and Jr. was dismissed in the 1830’s (does not say when he became a member). James Young has records as early as 1828, but does not say when he became a member as records prior to 1827 have been lost. James and Francis Young are related. Esom Logan has family who become members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in the 1850’s, but he is listed as a person of interest due to his connection with James Logan, in which I will explain in a bit…
Knob Creek – Mooney Families
This is where it gets complicated! I only have bits and pieces of the puzzle and so I don’t know how it all fits yet...
David Eaker MOONEY (Mauney) is a descendant of Hans Jacob Mauney/Mani from Switzerland (Palatine Immigrants who arrived on the ship Lydia) and is related to Christian Mauney who used his home as the Tryon County courthouse and jail.
To learn more about the Mooney/Mauney Families click here.
There is a 1798 Rutherford Co. land record for David Mooney, George Mooney, and Henry Site for 150 acres on the branch of “Knobs Creek.” Again, I don’t know which Knobs Creek, but if I were to guess, I would assume it is Knob’s Creek near Christian’s property south of the Catawba River closest to Lincoln County; instead of the Knobs Creek closest to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church.
I also looked at other names on the 1820 census list (a page back and a page forward) to find other land owners to get a better idea on where their properties were in relation to both Knob Creeks on the map, in effort to determine which Knob Creek Peter was likely living on at that time.
Interestingly, the few land-owners that I found on the census record all had land records for properties closer to Lincoln County, along the First and Main Broad Rivers where other Mooney properties can be found: In short, Peter may have been living on the Knobs Creek closest to Lincoln County [green above].
The Mooney, Pettit, and Toney Families Are Related
Not only are there connections with Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, but there are family connections too…
David E. Mooney is not shown as a member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, but his son Asa Mooney becomes a member in 1834 [pg. 117, Lu] and Asa married Anna Pettit, daughter of Henry Pettit Sr. [above on census].
Henry Pettit Sr. was received by Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in 1833. His daughter Sarah Pettit is married to Abraham Toney [above on census] and their daughter Elizabeth (Betty) Toney is married to David Mooney’s son Felix Mooney. Other sources say Felix is David’s grandson, but either way, they are still related. In fact, the Mooney, Toney, Pettit tree is complicated with numerous relationships! I strongly believe all three of these families lived together on Mooney’s land.
Also, it would not surprise me, if one of Peter’s daughters married into that web of families. Note:Peter had 3 daughters and there are no records as of yet showing if they ever married; however, for one of his daughters (Elizabeth, I believe) disappears after the 1860 census which may suggest a name change due to marriage.
Mooney, Best, and Gosnell Family Connection
Of course, it gets more interesting…
Without a map of the Broad River Basin, I would have never realized how close the Mooney, Best, and Gosnell families were together! It was when I started to read land surveys that I found them to be close neighbors! Like their properties backed up to one another!
When Tryon County split into Rutherford and Lincoln County in 1779, the Mooney family ended up in the Rutherford County side while the Best and Gosnell families ended up on the Lincoln County side. This is why early census records have them county’s apart; without a map their connection is greatly missed! Further research shows the Mooney family also having land in Mecklenburg Co., but I cannot remember if they are neighbors with the Best family (I have to check the land survey’s again).
Lincoln County 1790 census: Boston BEST & Charles GOSNELL
Another interesting family to come into view is the VINZANT family! The 1790 census shows Gosnell and Best next to each other in Lincoln County. David Mooney is on the 1790 Rutherford County census, next to a Vinzant family who, by the way, Henry Pettit Sr., obtains land from in 1824! I don’t know who the Vinzant/ VanSandt family is yet, but I sure do hope to find out!
The Best Family Are Palatine Immigrants Too
I know the Best family came from Pennsylvania according to a North Carolina census record on Genweb. Further research states that their original surname is “Bosch” and recent research now suggests that I should be able to find their arrival somewhere in the same book as the Mooney [Mani] family! Pennsylvania German Pioneers: A Publication of the Original Lists of Arrivals in the Port of Philadelphia from 1727 to 1808, Vol. I They may have arrived a few years after the Mooney family as I do not see the Bosch family listed on the same passenger list with the Mooney family posted on Olivetreegenealogy.com. [See: Jacob Mani and Peter Ecker]
On the passenger list with Mani and Ecker is also a John Peter Weiss (maybe that is a Vess?). Maybe it wasn’t John, Peter, and Nathan, but John Peter! Dunno! 🙂
South Carolina Pasts
The Gosnell, Mooney, and Best families were close neighbors (on map). There are no records of the Gosnell family being members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, which may suggest that the Vess family may have been close friends of the Gosnell family prior to the 1820’s, either through a different church, possibly as neighbors, or they migrated together.
Remember: Nathan Vess married Clarinda Bellew whose mother is supposedly Clarinda GOSNELL. Also, the Tyger River Baptist Church in SC (part of Tryon County) and Bill’s Creek Baptist Church were both members of the Bethel Association.
The Gosnell family is from Baltimore, Maryland. Charles GOSNELL settled in Greenville County, SC, more specifically, Glassy Mountain, SC. You can learn more about the Gosnell family in Baltimore County Families: 1659-1759 by Robert W. Barnes on Ancestry.com (pg. 270). It mentions how Charles GOSNELL moved to Greenville County, SC and also briefly mentions the marriage of Judith BELLEW as the wife of Joshua Gosnell. The Bellew and Gosnell families were popular in Glassy Mountain, SC and you can read about how I found them in the Dark Corners here.
There is a list of reoccurring family names in which we don’t exactly know their connection to the Vess family (if any):
We assume Andrew, Alfred, and Willis may have been named after other families. Andrew Logan Vess, Alfred Webb Vess, and Willis Vess.
We can see the Orr, Thompson, and Hodge families near Willis Vess in Alabama, with the Thompson family having traveled to Alabama with the Whitlocks.
There is an Elizabeth Orr who married a William Voss in Mecklenburg. Interestingly, William Voss is connected to the Voss family in Casewell, NC. There is a Voss family near Willis Vess in Alabama also connected to the Voss family in Casewell, NC.
Margaret Vaughn is supposedly the mother of Willis Vess.
Duncan family on Patrick County, Virginia tax record connected to a Samuel and Peter Vess.
And, the Hayes family being closely related via Y-DNA information.
Well, I have made another remarkable discovery: All these family names can be found in Tryon County, North Carolina!
I do not have enough information at this time to make any solid conclusions, but I do find it extremely interesting that these familiar family names are popping up in the same area since I started using the Broad River Basin map to identify early Tryon County families! These families may be unrelated to the same families mentioned above, but I do think it might be worth checking out.
Back To Esom Logan
Esom Logan on the 1820 census record with Peter Vess is a descendant of James Logan. The Logan family had numerous tracts of land and some of his descendants in the mid-1800’s were also members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. I am not entirely sure if there is a connection, but it is James Logan’s earliest land grant in Tryon County that has caught my attention!
According to his 1779 land record, he obtained 50 acres of land on Vauns Creek [Vaughns Creek], which included the Vauns old cabin.
This record is interesting, because Vaughn’s Creek extends into South Carolina connecting to Lake Lanier, making it one of those properties on the border between North and South Carolina. The families that lived not the border didn’t exactly known whether they were North Carolina residents or South Carolina residents and their records were basically scattered among different counties in both states. Who was the Vaughn family and is there any relation to Margaret Vaughn who is supposedly the mother to Willis Vess?
I do not think Peter was living with Esom Logan in 1820, the Logan family didn’t join Bill’s Creek Baptist Church until the mid-1800’s, whereas Abraham Toney and Peter Vess were members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church together in the 1820’s.
Quick Recap
Peter was likely living on Knob Creek closest to Lincoln County on the Mooney family’s land.
Peter, Mooney, Pettit, and Toney families have connections to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church between 1828-1836.
Mooney, Pettit, and Toney families are related.
Mooney, Best, and Gosnell families are close neighbors.
Gosnell family is not part of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church which likely suggests the Vess family knew them prior to 1820 either through a different church, as close neighbors, or traveled together.
Pettit, Toney, Bellew, and Gosnell families used to live in South Carolina.
Familiar family names such as Logan, Webb, Hayes, Willis, Orr, Duncan, Voss, Thompson, Vaughn, and Hodge are found in the same area as early families of Tryon County.
James Logan obtained 50 acres of the Vaughn’s family land which included the Vaughn’s old cabin. Vaughns Creek is located on the border of North and South Carolina.
Where To Next
Like I said, I have a lot of bits and pieces! However, it may be safe to assume, we have a couple of good leads; unfortunately, these leads venture off into the complicated records of Tryon County, NC.
I am going to start with the resources complied by Brent H. Holcomb for further history and records on Tryon County, NC. I have recently bought one of his books, Tryon County, North Carolina Minutes Of The Court Of Pleas and Quarter Sessions 1769-1779. I hope it will help me map early families of Tryon County!
Well that is pretty much all my Vess research in a nutshell! Please feel free to comment! Any additional information provided regarding Vess Genealogy is always greatly appreciated!
Book Source: Lu, Helen M. Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, 1782- 1982. The Author, 1984.
Vess Genealogy 