While investigating Willis Vess, I may have found my way back to the Patrick County, VA Vess/Vest family!
My game plan to try to uncover the origins of the Alabama Vess family include looking at maps, neighbors, spouses, genealogy records (census, land, probate, etc), and the history of Alabama.
Investigating Land Records
Franklin County, Alabama was first established in 1818, before Alabama became a state (December 14, 1819). Records of early settlers of northern portions of Alabama may be found in the Mississippi Territory records. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any records of interest.
The earliest record I’ve found on Willis Vess is an 1830 census record for Franklin County, Alabama. However, he is listed as being between the ages of 30-40, living with two females between the ages of 15-30. This does not appear to match the timeline reported on family trees. Also, he is 10 years younger in the 1840 census (listed as being between the ages of 20-30). Census records are notorious for their mistakes.
Interestingly, on the 1830 census record, I do recognize two familiar family names next to Willis Vess: SUGG and THARP.
Willis Vess lived near both of them and the Sugg family has records as early as 1819. In fact, despite the 1820 Alabama census record being supposedly incomplete, it does contain some families from the Foxtrap area [THARP, SUGG, MATLOCK, THOMPSON, and DEBOIS].
Littleberry Matlock is shown on the Alabama Genweb plat map, living next to Willis Vess. Further research reveals that he married Phoebe Tharp whose father is Robert Tharp (1820 censusabove) and supposedly (not confirmed yet) her mother is a Thompson from Rutherford County, North Carolina. Interesting!
After 1830, we believe Willis Vess married Talitha Whitlock; unfortunately, I have not been able to find a marriage record. However, we do know a lot about the Whitlock family due to extensive research by Anna Popejoy and published works by the Whitlock Newsletter via Google. The Whitlock family arrived in Alabama in 1820 and lived in an area referred to as Saints cross (which is near Foxtrap). I figure this may be how Willis Vess and Talitha Whitlock met each other.
The oldest children of Willis and Talitha Vess married into the Willis family, which may suggest the Vess and Willis families were close (they were close neighbors shown on the map below) and it is believed that the Willis family may have connections with the parents of Willis Vess (no evidence yet).
I do not know when the Willis family arrived in Franklin Alabama, however, both John Willis and Willis Vess appear on the 1830 census record (several pages apart).
Looking at the President’s name on their undated land records for Franklin County, Alabama, it appears that John Willis purchased land near the Foxtrap area before Willis Vess. John Willis’ record [No. 5972] was signed by Andrew Jackson who was President between 1829-1837 and Willis Vess’ record [No. 8737] was signed by Martin Van Buren who was President between 1837-1841.
The map below (looking at surrounding families) seem to have been something that was put together sometime after the 1850’s. The earliest known neighbor near Willis Vess is James Dubois [No. 8705, also issued in 1837] who is seen on the 1820 census record (above). The land record for John Willis signed by Present Andrew Jackson is not dated, but was likely issued between 1829-1837 and land records No. 19711 and 19712 was signed between 1857-1861 when James Buchanan was President. Unfortunately, nothing seems to reveal any clues about the Vess family prior to 1830.
Willis Vess appears to have owned several properties in the Foxtrap area.
I found 3 land records for Willis Vess: No. 8737 August 5, 1837 No. 20457 & 20252 April 2, 1857*No. 20451 & 20452 on map (above) No. 25798 March 1, 1858 (William Vess as heir) *No. 25797 on map (above)
Who is William Vess? None of the family trees I have come across for Willis Vess have a William Vess on them, so I am not entirely sure who he is; however, it certainly makes my next discovery extremely intriguing…
1846 Tennessee Record: Peter, Willis, William Vess/ Vest
There is one Willis Vess record that intrigues me the most and it is a land record for White County, Tennessee (1846) on Caney Fork.
Willis Vess of White County, Tennessee, appears to have 2 land records for a property on Caney Fork: No. 2012 dated 1831 No. 9156 (addition to No. 2012) dated 1849
The property interestingly joins Daniel Dotson (Dodson).
Looking at census records, I do not see a Willis Vess; however, there is an 1820 and 1830 census record for Peter Vest, whose neighbor is Daniel Dotson (Dodson).
In addition, there is also a William Vess. He also purchases land in 1831 No. 2071, whose property takes over land once owned by John Medley (see 1820 censusabove). William Dodson and Sam Moore are witnesses listed on the record. William Vess can be found on the 1830 census record. Is this William Vess, the William Vess who is “heir” to the Willis Vess of Alabama’s 1858 land record in Franklin County, Alabama??
And, furthermore, is this Peter Vest, the same Peter Vest listed on the Patrick Co. Deeds (1791-1941 Indexes, grantor pg. 77 on FHL Film 33,333) with wife “Margaret,” who appears to have land next to the Dodson family on North Fork in Patrick County, Virginia? A 1793 transaction which was witnessed by George Dodson Sr., George Dodson Junior, Benjamin Fletcher, and Thomas Dodson.
Perhaps, it is Peter and William Vess of Patrick County, Virginia (Deed Records) on North Fork with William Willis??
Is there an actual connection or is this just coincidence?
Conclusions
Wow!
A Franklin County, Alabama land record for Willis Vess and “heir” William Vess. A Willis and William Vess in White County, Tennessee, with a Peter Vest. All near a Dodson family. And… interestingly, there is a Peter Vess and William Vess in Patrick County, Virginia, not only living next to a Dodson family, but ALSO a Willis family.
I don’t have enough documented evidence to make any solid connections, but I am absolutely intrigued! Tennessee is a mixing pot of Vest, Voss, Vaulx, and Vess families! Hopefully, with more research, we can determine which family the Vess/Vest family of White County, Tennessee belongs to!
I am so thrilled to have finally reached a new chapter in Vess Genealogy!
When I started this blog last Fall (August 2020), it was simply just a place to organize digital sources and share my genealogy experiences researching the Vess name. I gave it 2 months!
Remarkably, Vess Genealogy kept on going! I never would have ever imagined I would get to work with so many different people interested in the VESS name nor get an opportunity to meet so many different VESS families! This has been such an amazing genealogy adventure!
A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone helping me unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!
If New To Vess Genealogy, Here’s What You Missed!
For generations, three different VESS lines (maybe more) haven’t been able find their ancestors prior to 1820. A frustrating endeavor leaving many of us to just give up.
However, since last Fall, we achieved the following:
1. We learned more about Peter Vess and his family. 2. We learned a lot about Andrew Logan Vess and his family. 3. We likely uncovered Nathan’s origins in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. 4. We discovered that Peter and Willis Vess are closely related and that our family is closely related to the Travers family! 5. We explored families in Knob’s Creek from Peter’s 1820 census record. 6. We discovered “Vess” records in Virginia connected to an unknown Vest/Vess family! 8. We confirmed (via DNA) that the VESS family is not related to the BASS, BEST, WEST, or VEST families; eliminating them as possible family connections.
Brief Recap On Vess Genealogy
We now know that Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess are related; however, we have not yet determined how they are related to each other.
Peter and Willis were born in North Carolina and Nathan was born in South Carolina. Peter first appears on record in Rutherford County, North Carolina in 1820 on Knobs Creek with the Toney, Pettit, and Mooney families (all members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church).
Nathan’s first appearance on record is also in Rutherford County, North Carolina, but in 1830 with his in-laws, the Bellew family. The Bellew and Gosnell families are related and are prominent families in Glassy Mountain, Greenville County, South Carolina (aka Dark Corners). Also, Peter’s grandson, David Andrew Vess married Magnolia “Maggie” Gosnell, who is related to Nathan’s wife, Clarinda Bellew.
Willis first appears on record in Franklin County, Alabama in 1830. According to Anna Popejoy, long time researcher of the Vess and Whitlock families, states that the father of Willis Vess (John Vess) had been living in Foxtrap since 1819. Y-DNA analysis, via familytreedna.com, confirms Willis Vess and Peter Vess (Andrew Logan Vess) are definitely part of the same VESS family.
Familytreedna.com (FTDNA) also shows that the VESS and TRAVERS family are closely related; however, we do not know how they are related. There are several reasons as to why FTDNA may group two different surnames closely together; either we are extremely close cousins, one family that split apart during a time before surnames, or a male Travers ancestor took on the Vess name (orvice versa).To unravel this mystery, it would be extremely helpful to have more male Vess descendants participate in Y-DNA Testing.
The Travers family is from Lancashire, England and they have traced their family to Dorchester, Maryland. Whether there is a connection between the Vess and Travers family in Colonial America has yet to be discovered (the families may have split long before they arrived in America).
With the help of Y-DNA and documented family histories, we’ve been able to eliminate the BASS, BEST, WEST, and VEST families as potential ancestors for the Vess family.
The BASS family has a rich Native American background. The BEST family (original surname BOSCH) can trace their family back to their arrival in the 1740’s with the Ecker family (in-laws) from Germany. The WEST family has been ruled out by their extensive West Family DNA Project. And the VEST family, descendants of John Daniel Vest belong to an entirely different Haplogroup than our VESS family. To my knowledge, there is no available DNA information on the VASS/VOSS/ VAULX families.
We have recently discovered a VEST/VESS family in Patrick County, Virginia who may be related to the VEST/VESS family in Rockbridge, Virginia. We have yet to find any records suggesting that they may belong to the VEST family (John Daniel Vest), which is extremely encouraging for our VESS family, andtherefore a new chapter begins!
I am in the process of investigating the Life of Willis Vess and hopefully, with any luck, we can uncover some of Anna Popejoy’s research to help us! I plan to explore more families in and surrounding Patrick County, Virginia – including Surry and Stokes County, North Carolina. All in addition to finding out more about the VOSS/VASS/ VAULX families who seem to live very close to the TRAVERS family in both Dorchester, Maryland and the abolished Albemarle County in North Carolina.
We so badly want to connect our VESS family to William Tunwell VESTof Stokes County, North Carolina; mostly, because it seems to be the only thing that makes the most sense!
While researching Willis Vess in Alabama, I took a slight detour back to the VEST family of Virginia, because I discovered a VEST family 2 counties east of Willis Vess taunting me with records as early as 1818. I had to figure out who they were.
Long story short, I searched for every early VEST record I could find in Virginia and started plotting them on a map. Then, with the help of Y-DNA information provided by a fellow researcher, I started the process of elimination. The final results surprisingly revealed another VEST / VESS family!
Why Does William Tunwell Vest Seem Like A Connection?
Despite having BEST, VOSS, and VASS families also in North Carolina to consider, I was hoping there was a connection with William Tunwell VEST; mostly, because he makes the most sense for the time, place, and names.
Peter Vess Peter Vess of Rutherford County, NC was born between 1791-1794 in North Carolina and most of his records are found under the “VEST” surname; except for the 1830 census (Voss) and his 1831 land record (Vess).
After his death sometime before 1844, the “VEST” surname continued with his wife Catherine and their sons, as shown in Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu. It wasn’t until 1849, when the “Vess” surname really stuck, in both census and church records. Therefore, it is easy to assume that Peter maybe connected to the VESTfamily.
We were even 100% confident that we had discovered his connection with the VEST family when we found a Surry County War of 1812-1814 record listing a “Peter VEST.” Not only is Surry County right next to Stokes County in North Carolina, but also the names of the other soldiers listed with Peter VEST seem to have connections with the grandchildren of William Tunwell VEST through his son Isham VEST. Because there doesn’t appear to be any VEST families in Surry County, the VEST family next door (in Stokes County) seems like a good fit.
A possible connection to William Tunwell VEST became even more enticing when records for Peter Vess suggested his father may have been named John Vess (1831 Rutherford Co. land grant record). According to the Last Will and Testament of William Tunwell VEST (1812), he just so happens to have a son named John VEST!
Willis Vess William Tunwell Vest also seems like a potential ancestor to Willis Vess.
Willis Vess was born in North Carolina (abt) 1810, supposedly to “John Vess and Maragaret Vaughn” who are said to have also been born in North Carolina. Because William Tunwell VEST had a son named John VEST, it appeared there could be a connection; however, John VEST married Eliza RAY (not Margaret Vaughn). Of course, John could have been married twice, but records show us that John VEST (despite who he was married to) appears to have been living in North Carolina (or Indiana-whichever source you pick) during the time that the father of Willis Vess was living in Alabama; therefore they must not be the same person.
Nathan Vess Interestingly, there haven’t been any plausible ideas between William Tunwell Vest and Nathan Vess. Because Nathan was born in South Carolina, one could possibly conclude he is Peter’s cousin rather than his brother. So, Nathan’s lack of connection to the VEST family in Stokes County, NC never really seemed like such a big deal.
The VEST & VESS Families Are Not Related
According to information from FamilytreeDNA.com, the VEST and VESS families are not related! In fact, they don’t even share the same Haplogroup!
The descendants of John Daniel VEST (VEST family of Virginia) belong to Haplogroup-I, whereas the descendants of Willis Vess and Andrew Logan Vess (our VESS family) belong to Haplogroup- R (R1a). That’s quite a distance from each other on the Y-Haplogroup tree.
So, we can pretty much eliminate any VEST family related to John Daniel Vest as being possible ancestors, including William Tunwell VEST of Stokes County, North Carolina.
I was holding onto William Tunwell VEST for a long time, just in case; however, I eventually discovered that he is the son of John Daniel VEST.
In the Last Will and Testament of John Daniel Vest (1765) of Chesterfield County, Virginia, John names his wife “Ann Vest” (likely Charolette Ann Bakes) as well as his 7 children: “John Vest, Valentine Vest, Elizabeth Vest, James Vest, George Vest, Phillip Vest, and William Tunwell Vest.” [Transcribed by Sandra Lake Lassen March 1993 – Ancestry.com]
By the way, I discovered the VEST family near Willis Vess in Alabama are descendants of John Daniel Vest through George Washington Vest– so, no relation to Willis Vess.
Mapping VEST Families
Instead of trying to untangle the many different branches of the VEST family, I decided it would be better to us their records to plot them all on a map. During this process, I came to discover that a lot of VEST families do seem to be descendants of John Daniel Vest and Charolette Ann Bakes. The family appears to have originated from Chesterfield and Powhatan County, VA and then migrated westward into Bedford County, then down into Franklin and Floyd Counties, before conquering the rest of the United States.
After finishing my map, two VESS/VEST families who do not seem to have any connection with the John Daniel Vest family stood out!
The Map The counties [below] highlighted inredcontain VEST records. The counties marked with an X have records that strongly suggest a relationship with John Daniel Vest. And, the counties left, with no X, have records with both the VESS and VEST surname.
This map is not 100% accurate. It is very likely that there are areas and families I missed; especially, since documentation of these VESS-VEST families is scarce and require deep digging into Virginia archives. The purpose of this map is to see if we could identify any “separate” families, such as those using the VESS surname.
Exploring VESS/VEST Families
Rockbridge County and Patrick County, Virginia are the only two counties where I have found records with the VESS name and families whose records seem to use the VESS and VEST surname interchangeably, and interestingly, neither of them seem to have any records that suggest (at this time) they are connected to the John Daniel Vest family! So, who are they and do they have any connection to our VESS family?
VESS/VEST family of Rockbridge, Virginia
According to my ancestral DNA, I have distant DNA-relatives who are descendants of Addison Vess of Rockbridge County, Virginia through my VESS line. My project, of course, could be flawed as the connection could be distant, possibly connected between different families related to Addison Vess.
However, I used the same search method again for the VEST name and more DNA-relatives came up; all related to Vess families in Rockbridge, VA. I did not get any DNA-relatives descending from the John Daniel Vest family.
The Vest/Vess family living in Rockbridge are found near Colliers Creek and Kerrs Creek. Library of Congress Looking at this map [below], there are family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Hostetter, Ailstock, Noel, Morris, and Tolly, and Armstrong.
William, Peter, & Samuel VESS/VEST of Patrick County
As mentioned in a previous post, “What We Know So Far,” we recently discovered a Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia who we have no idea (like the Rockbridge family) as to whether they are related to the VESS or VEST family (perhaps neither).
I was provided a list of land deeds for Patrick County, Virginia (1791-1801) to compare to the residents in Tryon County, North Carolina (1769-1779) to see if there was any kind of connection. Unfortunately, I did not find anything significant, for that Tryon County records are much older than the Patrick County records and it just wouldn’t make sense that families would travel so far south just to end back up North. I guess they could have, but probably unlikely during a time when families were migrating out west and down south.
The records we find in Patrick County, Virginia include a William, Peter, and a Samuel Vess (VEST/VOSS) who lived on the border of Patrick County and Henry County (as shown on the mapbelow) in Bull Mountain, North Mayo River, and Koger Creek, just below Franklin County, Virginia.
These records also show family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Duncan, Dodson, Willis, Watson, Reynolds, Sharp, Hooker, and Randal.
HAIRSTON & PENN Families: A Little Local History While researching some of the families on this deed list, I discovered that the HAIRSTON and PENN families (both on the deed list) have a bit of history in the area.
George HAIRSTON built Beaver Creek Plantation which was a tobacco plantation and a very large slave-trading post in Martinsville, VA (east of Koger Creek in Henry Co.). He served under Col. Abraham PENN who was the original owner of the land that George Hairston built his plantation on (using a royal grant). The PENN family built “Poplar Grove” plantation in Patrick County, VA near Patrick Springs (west of North Mayo River). And both HAIRSTON and PENN families married into the STOVALL family- all connected.
There appears to be several plantations in the area, all of which utilized slaves and indentured servants. Indentured servants generally had a 7 year contract and in return for their service, their masters often granted them land. Looking at records on Patrick County, VA Genweb, we find deed records referred to an “Indenture,” where land was transferred to the “apprentice” after all debts and terms of their contract have been satisfied.
Jonathan William Vess of Texas: Koger Creek According to the deed list, William Vess/Vest is shown near a Herron/ Heron family and as previously known, marriage records show Elizabeth Herron having married Johnathan William Vess in 1791 in Patrick County, Virginia. Johnathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron traveled with Stephen F. Austin from Missouri to Texas (Republic of Texas) during the 1820’s. This William Vess/Vest on the Patrick County deed list may either be Jonathan himself or perhaps his father.
Peter Vess and William Vess/Voss: North Mayo River According to the deed list, west of Koger Creek are residents of the North Mayo River which includes Peter Vess, William Vess/Voss, Samuel Vess, William Willis, and William Sharp.
This Vess/Voss family is most interesting for that we see them with the Willis, Dodson, and Sharp families (family surnames that are also found in Franklin County, Alabama with Willis Vess).
To make things even more interesting, we found a 1785 marriage record for Peter Vess and Pugnance Vaughn in Henry County. (Henry County is next to Patrick County, and there was a time when both counties were one, called Patrick-Henry County)
What is interesting about this, is that according to Anna Popejoy, the parents of Willis Vess were John Vess and Margaret Vaughn. To this day, we do not know where she got this information; however, we are now wondering, if this is them.
Perhaps their full names were John Peter Vess and Pugnance Margaret Vaughn??? Also note, that the brother of Willis Vess is supposedly “John Peter Vess,” perhaps he was a John Peter Vess Jr.?
In addition, records also show land transactions between Peter Vess and Samuel Vess via John Duncan. At the bottom of this particular deed list (with Peter and Samuel), you will also find a Whitlock family.
Are These VESS/VEST Families Related
It is plausible that the Rockbridge VESS/VEST family and the Patrick County VESS/VEST families are related to each other, for that records of the Patrick County family (earliest record 1785) come before the records of the Rockbridge family (earliest record 1818); suggesting one of the Vess members may have migrated to Rockbridge, Virginia from Patrick County, Virginia.
It has also been observed that Samuel Vess of Patrick County, Virginia disappeared before Peter and William Vess; which makes us wonder if he is (or is related to) Samuel Harvey Vess of Rockbridge, Virginia (1830 records).
We do not know if they are genetically related to the our Vess family; however, genealogical records seem to support some kind of connection.
Full Recap
The Vest family of Virginia and our Vess family are not related (two separate Haplogroups).
There is no genetic relationship between our Vess family and William Tunwell Vest in Stokes County, North Carolina.
Maps reveal a separate VESS/VEST family residing in Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia. It is not yet know if these two VESS/VEST families are related, but it is plausible considering the record dates.
We have likely discovered the families of Jonathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron (of Republic of Texas) in Patrick County, Virginia on Koger Creek.
We have discovered that there is a Peter, Samuel, and William VESS/VOSS on the North Mayo River with a Willis, Sharp, and possibly a Whitlock family.
The area in which we find these families in Patrick County, has a history of plantations and records that suggest some of the land owners were once indentured servants.
Many family surnames found in both Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia are familiar names seen elsewhere in Vess family research; especially, regarding Peter and Willis Vess.
No definite conclusions can be made at this time; however, these new discoveries seem promising! It appears that a new chapter in Vess Genealogy has just begun!
If you are or know someone who is a male descendant with the VESS or VEST surname, please consider participating in Y-DNA testing through FamilytreeDNA.com to help us unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!
Again, a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who has shared their findings with me on the Vess name in effort to piece together VESS family history!
Vess Genealogy has been stuck at a massive roadblock for generations. In my opinion, I believe there was a name change.
Records do exist. Either we are missing the places they might be (due to county changes) or we are overlooking records, because the surname is indexed wrong due to illegible handwriting.
Our ancestors lived in an area during a time where county lines were constantly changing, which means there are probably some counties that we may never in a zillion years ever think to look for records.
The biggest reason I believe records do exist is because so many other early families of western North Carolina have a paper-trail.
Okay, it is not exactly the neatest of paper-trails for that when you get into early records (early 1800’s and back), surnames are really butchered (horribly misspelled) to the point that even if you squint and look at it sideways, it might (if you shout it from a distancewith a little echo) sound phonetically similar to the surname that it was meant to be. So, in most cases, it is the content that usually confirms the persons identity more so than the indexed surname linked to the record.
My point is, if a good portion of early families in the same area have records, there is a good chance the Vess family also has records. Unfortunately, there are too many different surname variants and counties to explore. If we want to move forward a little faster, perhaps genetic genealogy can help us.
Check out this cool video below – A North Carolina dialect that evolved independently due to isolation since the 1600’s. If that is anywhere close to what our ancestors used to talk like, no wonder names were horribly misspelled.
What Is Genetic Genealogy
It is my understanding, as I am 100% new to this, that genetic genealogy is a new approach to tackling difficult ancestors who do not want to be found.
Instead of digging through dusty old archives for records to make family connections, we can now make family connections with the help of DNA relatives. Unfortunately, the name of our stubborn ancestors are not embedded into our DNA, but DNA-relatives can point us in the direction, like a compass, to locate genealogy records that might help us identify a common ancestor.
Essentially, the idea is to use both methods (DNA and records) together to quickly and more accurately make new connections on the family tree.
Y-Chromosome DNA Testing is GOLD
Y-Chromosome DNA testing is gold, but without a lot of participants, it can also be lead.
Every male descendant carries a gene called a Y-Chromosome. Geneticist’s extract the DNA from the Y-Chromosome, analyze it and assign it to a Y-Chromosome Haplogroup (A-R).
A haplogroup consists of a group of people who share very similar DNA with one another suggesting a single common ancestor. An extremely ancient common ancestor.
The more people who participate in Y-DNA testing, the more these Haplogroups can be broken down into smaller groups called a subclade. Subclades are subgroups of Haplogroups. Assignment is largely based on single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP’s), which are specific mutations that correlate to specific paternal lines. Every time a mutation occurs over thousands of years, that genetic line branches off into a new subclade (or so that is my vague understanding of it).
As more DNA is collected and analyzed, the subclade may change; either resulting in grouping more people together into one subclade (moving from one existing subclade to another existing subclade) or having enough new information to create an entirely new subclade.
The VESS family is assigned to Haplogroup R. Haplogroup R has many different branches (subclades).
When members of the VESS family submitted their DNA, a new subclade was created where they were grouped together with the TRAVERS family (we are closely related), and then, when some members of the VESS family completed the BIG-Y Chromosome test (a more in-depth analysis), the VESS family was later assigned a new subclade although still grouped together with the TRAVERS family. This suggests a mutation.
It is interesting that our group has two different surnames and it kind of makes you wonder who came first: TRAVERS or VESS?
Did a male descendant of the TRAVERS family take the VESS surname, maybe from a step-parent, or was adopted by a VESS family or vice versa. There is also the possibility that our common ancestor could be from a time when surnames didn’t exist. OR we aren’t as closely related as we think and as more people begin to test, the VESS and TRAVERS family might drift apart into two different groups. The only thing I know for sure, is that it is a mystery we cannot solve today.
However, we did identify a new VESS line using Y-Chromosome testing: Willis Vess of Alabama.
The best thing about this DNA database, is that participants often note their oldest known ancestor which gives genealogists a specific location on a map to look for genealogy records. Although we know Andrew Logan Vess and Willis Vess are related, we have yet to determine how they are related to one another on the VESS family tree.
This is what I mean by Y-Chromosome DNA testing being gold but also lead. It has the potential to unravel many VESS mysteries, but without more participants, those mysteries will remain in the dark.
Male descendants carrying the VESS surname or one similar to it (VASS, VOSE, VOSS, VEST, VAUX, etc) are greatly encouraged to participate in Y-DNA testing through Familytreedna.com as there might be a genetic connection.
Autosomal DNA Testing
While Y-Chromosome DNA testing is a more direct route to identifying our paternal ancestors, autosomal DNA testing is more or less like taking the scenic route.
Y-Chromosome DNA tests provide you a much bigger genealogical timeline of just one paternal line that dates back to ancient times, whereas ancestral DNA tests are autosomal, which means they only go back 6-8 generations and is saturated by DNA-relatives on both sides of the family (paternal and maternal lines).
For me, my DNA-relatives related to the VESS line would mainly consist of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess (my third great-grandfather-6th gen). It would just barely (if at all) pick up DNA-relatives descending from Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess or even their parents. It greatly depends on how many of their descendants have submitted an ancestral DNA test and just how far they descend down the Vess-family line.
With an 8-generation family tree, a DNA test by my mom, and access to DNA information provided by a close family member who is a generation older than me, I have been able to identify DNA-relatives specifically connected to the VESS family line via a lengthy tedious process of elimination.
Fortunately, my mom’s DNA test does half the work for me by identifying DNA-relatives on her side of the family. Then, I look at shared DNA relatives with the family member who is a generation older than me to further identify DNA-relatives that are most likely VESS-related. Because this family member is a generation older than me, their DNA test would detect more DNA-relatives, those who are too distant to be detected by my DNA test.
Any DNA-relative with less than a cM count of 8, do not make it onto the DNA-relatives list (it’s too distant), even though there is a relation on the family tree. In theory, it would probably be best to have our grandparents do an ancestral autosomal DNA test. cM (centimorgan)= the amount of shared DNA.
My Search Method
I started by making a list of DNA-relatives who carry the VESS name. Next, I made a list of DNA-relatives with the VESS name who also have a public VESS family tree. Lastly, I made a list of DNA-relatives who do not carry the VESS name, but have a public family tree showing they descend (at one point) from a VESS family member.
For each DNA-relative listed, I noted their oldest known ancestor (some I had to research a bit) and I also had to check their shared-relatives list to make sure they didn’t share DNA with my mom (which was the most time consuming part).
My Discoveries
At a glance, autosomal ancestral DNA tests tell us nothing; except, we have a lot of cousins. But after an extensive process of elimination, then entering the information into a spreadsheet, and finally organizing the information from closest DNA-relatives to most distant DNA-relatives does it actually start to get interesting.
1) As expected, majority of our shared DNA-relatives are descendants of Andrew Logan Vess.
2) As you scroll down towards more distant DNA-relatives, we start to see connections with Willis Vess. Based on this, we can probably confidently say that Willis and Peter Vess are very closely related.
3) Willis Vess seems closer to us than Nathan Vess; which may suggest Nathan’s line has either ended or not many of his descendants have done an ancestral DNA test.
4) Also as expected, the autosomal DNA tests just barely detect DNA-relatives who are descendants of Josiah, Alfred, and Alexander Vess (brothers of Andrew Logan Vess).
5) Interestingly, there are a few DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is one I do not recognize:
–Susan Ann Elizabeth VESS (b. 1856 Rutherford Co. NC) and Columbus MCGINNIS *connected to Ledbetter tree and father is noted as Thomas William VEST of Tennessee
–Elizabeth Louise VESS (b. abt 1845 North Carolina) and William LANNING (marriage Henderson, NC)
–Everline VESS and James STEWART (marriage Colbert, Alabama)
–James Marvin VESS (b. 1853 South Carolina) and Sallie Octavia SPRUELL
**One of the Elizabeth’s might be the daughter of Peter Vess
6) But even more interesting are DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is Addison Vess/Vest.
You would think this is a solid connection to the VEST family of Virginia, but if you look at the family trees for Addison VESS/VEST, they are not well documented and there is no consistency with Addison’s children or parents, which is a RED FLAG in genealogy.
Final Conclusions
I am not an expert, so please keep in mind my search method could be flawed and thus the information within this post could be highly inaccurate.
We still do not have enough information to find new ancestors, but we do have enough genetic evidence to start digging deeper into the life of Willis Vess without wondering whether or not we are wasting our time. Yes, Y-Chromosome testing confirmed he is related to Peter Vess, but autosomal DNA testing suggests the relation is much closer than we think.
Also, we might want to start to investigate Addison VESS/VEST for that his name appeared quite consistently in the chart below. The reason he showed up, is because his descendants some how took on the VESS name rather than keeping the VEST name like other VEST families; in which I think is intriguing. Why did this particular VEST line evolve into a VESS line?
Prior to 1820, the “Vess” name seems scarce. This is either because the Vess family just recently arrived to America or that there was a name change. Today’s research strongly suggests a name change.
When a surname is misspelled, we often tend to overlook important records. My genealogy game plan to bring these records to light is to research the neighbors of Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess and investigate any nearby families with a similar surname. So far, I have a couple of excellent contenders with the VEST, VOSS, BEST, and BASS families. Unfortunately, I have yet to find any documents to confirm a direct connection with any of them.
With a handful of different families with similar surnames already piled high on my research plate, I had no intention on investigating anymore families; however, I would be foolish to disregard a family whose family story seems quite similar to our own family story…
The VASS Family: Sounds Oddly Familiar
I have spent years reaching out to different families with similar surnames in hopes one would have a similar family story to ours, but nothing ever came close until now…
I stumbled upon the VASS family with a document that wasn’t even about the VASS family itself, but more so about a man named Pendleton in Virginia whose daughter married a Vass. I can’t even tell you why I was looking at Pendleton to begin with, which happens a lot.
In genealogy, one document often leads to another document, then to another and another to the point you’re not exactly sure who it is that you were looking for in the first place! Honestly, I am pretty sure this all started with looking at map.
As I was saying, I stumbled upon a document that led me to more documents about the VASS family in Virginia. After reviewing my notes, I was shocked by how similar their family story is to ours…
1) Instead of Ireland, their “long time” family story has always been about “3 brothers from Germany.” 2) Their name used to be pronounced as “Voss” (just like us). 3) Some say they are German in origin and others say Scotland. (just like us, but instead of Scotland, it is Ireland).
There are a couple of documents pertaining to the VASS family, some of which strongly suggest they are Scottish, as part of the ROSS-Clan, with surname variants of Vaux, Vaus, and Wass. The Wass version is what they believe mistakes them for German. One source states the original name was DE-VALLIBUS; in my opinion, sounds French.
The VASS family was supposedly a prominent family in Virginia via John Vass and Rachel Pendleton. Their descendants eventually went down into North Carolina with the variant surname VOSS. They settled in parts of Casewell and Pasquotank Counties. [Note: There is Greenbury Voss/Vess in Casewell County]
Furthermore, there is a Vincent Vass (b. 1790) who married Mary Cosner living in Stokes County, North Carolina during the early 1800’s. This is interesting, because it means that William Tunwell VEST was not the only family in the area at the time with a similar surname to “VESS.” Also, we have a Peter Vest on a War of 1812 Surry County, NC record that we have not been able to connect to either the VESS or VEST family.
The VASS family is supposedly connected to the North Carolina VOSS family, which got me thinking: Is Frederick “Bass” of Anson County, NC, neighbors with the Bellew family, related to this VASS/VOSS mix?
The document linking the VASS/VOSS family (John Vass & Rachel Pendleton) to Vincent Vass cuts off and does not mention how they are related; unfortunately, I have not been able to find the original publication to read onto the next page.
I have just barely scratched the surface of the VASS family. As I mentioned before, this search initially began with looking at maps, in which I think has something to do with the names Whitlock, Vaughn, & Thompson scribbled on a piece of paper next to the name Pendleton. Of course, I didn’t jot down their connection!
Glasgow, Scotland
All this mention of Scotland, reminded me of Glasgow, Scotland. See, my DNA results show ancestors having once living in Glasgow, Scotland. This intrigues me, because in the 1820-1830’s, we see records for a “Vess” family arriving to America from Glasgow. I do not know if there is a connection yet, but it is interesting nonetheless.
The VOSE Family: Lancashire, England
As if the pile of families with similar surnames wasn’t big enough, the VASS family led me to another:
There is one source that made a brief connection between the VASS and VOSE family, in which is not well understood. In my opinion, it seems as if they were connected together, because both families share the surname variant of VAUX. However, before tossing this family aside into the “maybe” pile, one particular thing caught my eye: The VOSE family is from Lancashire, England.
This brings me to the TRAVERS family of Lancashire, England. It is my understanding that Y-DNA data currently suggests that the VESS and TRAVERS families are related and it is believed that the two families split “prior to mid-1650.”
Interestingly, I came across a 1784 marriage record for a Mary TRAVERS and an Edward VOCE (VOSE) in Lancashire, England, but no family tree to determine further connections (if any).
The VOSE family is originally from Normandy. Interestingly, (in my opinion) the name DE-VALLIBUS that is supposedly associated with the VASS family, seems more fitting for this VOSE family.
In the early 1600’s, Robert and Sarah Vose migrated to America. Further research shows that the VOSE family prominently living in Massachusetts with no mention of any family migrating South. So with that, I tucked the VOSE family away with the WEST family- ruling them out completely.
Henry Vose of Virginia
Interestingly, buried within a plethora of documentation about the VOSE family in Massachusetts, there is this tiny bit that reads: “Henry Vose, who arrived in Virginia in 1653.”houseofnames.com
Now, THAT is much closer to the Carolina’s! I decided to type his info into Ancestry.com where I came across this piece of genealogy gold [right]!
He arrived in North Hampton, Virginia in 1653, sponsored by Anti. Hoskins. And guess what other name is listed with his: William Willis!
This is interesting, because we think the Willis Vess family in Alabama (from North Carolina) might have a connection with a Willis family.
Of course, this doesn’t confirm anything.
No Solid Connections Yet
Although I am disappointed that no new connections have been made, this new information is encouraging.
This new information isn’t pointing me into a new direction (which is exciting), but more so back to where I’ve already been; meaning, there is a good chance I was on the right track, but missed something! I just have to figure out what.
So far, I have recognized that research seems to be on opposite ends of our family history timeline and we are just needing to fill in a 140+/- year gap. We can trace our lineage to Peter, Nathan, and Willis and we know (via DNA) that at some point they were connected to the Travers family in England. So, roughly between 1650 – 1791 is missing.
The earliest record I have on Peter Vess (Vest) is his 1820 census record for Rutherford County, North Carolina.
I have determined that he was living on “Knob Creek” in 1820; however, according to a map of the Broad River Basin, there are two Knob Creeks. One closest to Bill’s Creek (Bill’s Creek Baptist Church) off the Main Broad River and one closet to Lincoln County off the First Broad River.
I have researched all the families listed on the same census page as Peter and I have yet to confirm which Knob’s Creek Peter was likely living on in 1820. However, I have compared all the names, top to bottom, on the same census page [pg. 377] to the Member list dated 1829-1836 [pg. 115] in Helen M. Lu’s book,Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, and discovered something remarkable: 1820 Rutherford County Census.
Esom Logan Peter Vest David Mooney Henry Petit (not sure if this is Sr. or Jr.). If it reads “Esq.,” it would be Jr., because he was a Judge. James Young Abraham Toney Francis Young
These men [above] are the only men on that census page (interestingly grouped around Peter) that are connected to Bill’s Creek Baptist church between 1828-1836. Are they neighbors or family?
David Mooney’s children become members in the 1830’s. Peter Vest and Abraham Toney were members between 1829-1836. Henry Pettit Sr. became a member in the 1830’s and Jr. was dismissed in the 1830’s (does not say when he became a member). James Young has records as early as 1828, but does not say when he became a member as records prior to 1827 have been lost. James and Francis Young are related. Esom Logan has family who become members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in the 1850’s, but he is listed as a person of interest due to his connection with James Logan, in which I will explain in a bit…
Knob Creek – Mooney Families
This is where it gets complicated! I only have bits and pieces of the puzzle and so I don’t know how it all fits yet...
David Eaker MOONEY (Mauney) is a descendant of Hans Jacob Mauney/Mani from Switzerland (Palatine Immigrants who arrived on the ship Lydia) and is related to Christian Mauney who used his home as the Tryon County courthouse and jail.
To learn more about the Mooney/Mauney Families click here.
There is a 1798 Rutherford Co. land record for David Mooney, George Mooney, and Henry Site for 150 acres on the branch of “Knobs Creek.” Again, I don’t know which Knobs Creek, but if I were to guess, I would assume it is Knob’s Creek near Christian’s property south of the Catawba River closest to Lincoln County; instead of the Knobs Creek closest to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church.
I also looked at other names on the 1820 census list (a page back and a page forward) to find other land owners to get a better idea on where their properties were in relation to both Knob Creeks on the map, in effort to determine which Knob Creek Peter was likely living on at that time.
Interestingly, the few land-owners that I found on the census record all had land records for properties closer to Lincoln County, along the First and Main Broad Rivers where other Mooney properties can be found: In short, Peter may have been living on the Knobs Creek closest to Lincoln County [green above].
The Mooney, Pettit, and Toney Families Are Related
Not only are there connections with Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, but there are family connections too…
David E. Mooney is not shown as a member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, but his son Asa Mooney becomes a member in 1834 [pg. 117, Lu] and Asa married Anna Pettit, daughter of Henry Pettit Sr. [above on census].
Henry Pettit Sr. was received by Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in 1833. His daughter Sarah Pettit is married to Abraham Toney [above on census] and their daughter Elizabeth (Betty) Toney is married to David Mooney’s son Felix Mooney. Other sources say Felix is David’s grandson, but either way, they are still related. In fact, the Mooney, Toney, Pettit tree is complicated with numerous relationships! I strongly believe all three of these families lived together on Mooney’s land.
Also, it would not surprise me, if one of Peter’s daughters married into that web of families. Note:Peter had 3 daughters and there are no records as of yet showing if they ever married; however, for one of his daughters (Elizabeth, I believe) disappears after the 1860 census which may suggest a name change due to marriage.
Mooney, Best, and Gosnell Family Connection
Of course, it gets more interesting…
Without a map of the Broad River Basin, I would have never realized how close the Mooney, Best, and Gosnell families were together! It was when I started to read land surveys that I found them to be close neighbors! Like their properties backed up to one another!
When Tryon County split into Rutherford and Lincoln County in 1779, the Mooney family ended up in the Rutherford County side while the Best and Gosnell families ended up on the Lincoln County side. This is why early census records have them county’s apart; without a map their connection is greatly missed! Further research shows the Mooney family also having land in Mecklenburg Co., but I cannot remember if they are neighbors with the Best family (I have to check the land survey’s again).
Lincoln County 1790 census: Boston BEST & Charles GOSNELL
Another interesting family to come into view is the VINZANT family! The 1790 census shows Gosnell and Best next to each other in Lincoln County. David Mooney is on the 1790 Rutherford County census, next to a Vinzant family who, by the way, Henry Pettit Sr., obtains land from in 1824! I don’t know who the Vinzant/ VanSandt family is yet, but I sure do hope to find out!
The Best Family Are Palatine Immigrants Too
I know the Best family came from Pennsylvania according to a North Carolina census record on Genweb. Further research states that their original surname is “Bosch” and recent research now suggests that I should be able to find their arrival somewhere in the same book as the Mooney [Mani] family! Pennsylvania German Pioneers: A Publication of the Original Lists of Arrivals in the Port of Philadelphia from 1727 to 1808, Vol. I They may have arrived a few years after the Mooney family as I do not see the Bosch family listed on the same passenger list with the Mooney family posted on Olivetreegenealogy.com. [See: Jacob Mani and Peter Ecker]
On the passenger list with Mani and Ecker is also a John Peter Weiss (maybe that is a Vess?). Maybe it wasn’t John, Peter, and Nathan, but John Peter! Dunno! 🙂
South Carolina Pasts
The Gosnell, Mooney, and Best families were close neighbors (on map). There are no records of the Gosnell family being members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, which may suggest that the Vess family may have been close friends of the Gosnell family prior to the 1820’s, either through a different church, possibly as neighbors, or they migrated together.
Remember: Nathan Vess married Clarinda Bellew whose mother is supposedly Clarinda GOSNELL. Also, the Tyger River Baptist Church in SC (part of Tryon County) and Bill’s Creek Baptist Church were both members of the Bethel Association.
The Gosnell family is from Baltimore, Maryland. Charles GOSNELL settled in Greenville County, SC, more specifically, Glassy Mountain, SC. You can learn more about the Gosnell family in Baltimore County Families: 1659-1759 by Robert W. Barnes on Ancestry.com (pg. 270). It mentions how Charles GOSNELL moved to Greenville County, SC and also briefly mentions the marriage of Judith BELLEW as the wife of Joshua Gosnell. The Bellew and Gosnell families were popular in Glassy Mountain, SC and you can read about how I found them in the Dark Corners here.
There is a list of reoccurring family names in which we don’t exactly know their connection to the Vess family (if any):
We assume Andrew, Alfred, and Willis may have been named after other families. Andrew Logan Vess, Alfred Webb Vess, and Willis Vess.
We can see the Orr, Thompson, and Hodge families near Willis Vess in Alabama, with the Thompson family having traveled to Alabama with the Whitlocks.
There is an Elizabeth Orr who married a William Voss in Mecklenburg. Interestingly, William Voss is connected to the Voss family in Casewell, NC. There is a Voss family near Willis Vess in Alabama also connected to the Voss family in Casewell, NC.
Margaret Vaughn is supposedly the mother of Willis Vess.
Duncan family on Patrick County, Virginia tax record connected to a Samuel and Peter Vess.
And, the Hayes family being closely related via Y-DNA information.
Well, I have made another remarkable discovery: All these family names can be found in Tryon County, North Carolina!
I do not have enough information at this time to make any solid conclusions, but I do find it extremely interesting that these familiar family names are popping up in the same area since I started using the Broad River Basin map to identify early Tryon County families! These families may be unrelated to the same families mentioned above, but I do think it might be worth checking out.
Back To Esom Logan
Esom Logan on the 1820 census record with Peter Vess is a descendant of James Logan. The Logan family had numerous tracts of land and some of his descendants in the mid-1800’s were also members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. I am not entirely sure if there is a connection, but it is James Logan’s earliest land grant in Tryon County that has caught my attention!
According to his 1779 land record, he obtained 50 acres of land on Vauns Creek [Vaughns Creek], which included the Vauns old cabin.
This record is interesting, because Vaughn’s Creek extends into South Carolina connecting to Lake Lanier, making it one of those properties on the border between North and South Carolina. The families that lived not the border didn’t exactly known whether they were North Carolina residents or South Carolina residents and their records were basically scattered among different counties in both states. Who was the Vaughn family and is there any relation to Margaret Vaughn who is supposedly the mother to Willis Vess?
I do not think Peter was living with Esom Logan in 1820, the Logan family didn’t join Bill’s Creek Baptist Church until the mid-1800’s, whereas Abraham Toney and Peter Vess were members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church together in the 1820’s.
Quick Recap
Peter was likely living on Knob Creek closest to Lincoln County on the Mooney family’s land.
Peter, Mooney, Pettit, and Toney families have connections to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church between 1828-1836.
Mooney, Pettit, and Toney families are related.
Mooney, Best, and Gosnell families are close neighbors.
Gosnell family is not part of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church which likely suggests the Vess family knew them prior to 1820 either through a different church, as close neighbors, or traveled together.
Pettit, Toney, Bellew, and Gosnell families used to live in South Carolina.
Familiar family names such as Logan, Webb, Hayes, Willis, Orr, Duncan, Voss, Thompson, Vaughn, and Hodge are found in the same area as early families of Tryon County.
James Logan obtained 50 acres of the Vaughn’s family land which included the Vaughn’s old cabin. Vaughns Creek is located on the border of North and South Carolina.
Where To Next
Like I said, I have a lot of bits and pieces! However, it may be safe to assume, we have a couple of good leads; unfortunately, these leads venture off into the complicated records of Tryon County, NC.
I am going to start with the resources complied by Brent H. Holcomb for further history and records on Tryon County, NC. I have recently bought one of his books, Tryon County, North Carolina Minutes Of The Court Of Pleas and Quarter Sessions 1769-1779. I hope it will help me map early families of Tryon County!
Well that is pretty much all my Vess research in a nutshell! Please feel free to comment! Any additional information provided regarding Vess Genealogy is always greatly appreciated!
Book Source: Lu, Helen M. Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, 1782- 1982. The Author, 1984.
I was recently asked if I knew anything about a Willis VESS and his connection to a John VESS.
Well, the short answer is: Very little.
But, I did stumbled upon new intriguing information that is probably worth brain storming…
I have a lot of research and I wouldn’t be surprised if the answers we seek about the VESS family are in plain sight somewhere in my messy genealogy files!
I say this, because I truly do not know how to start this post… Vess Genealogy is like trying to put together a zillion-piece puzzle with all the puzzle pieces face down! And there is always that one piece we keep going back to, because we know what general area it belongs to; but it doesn’t quite have a space for it to fit into yet.
Simply, I don’t know what I got until I come across it again.
With that said, I will start with Willis Vess.
Willis Vess of Alabama
Willis VESS (born abt. 1810) married Talitha WHITLOCK. Many researchers who I’ve spoken to have found connections to Willis VESS through the WHITLOCK family (including myself). I am related to Talitha WHITLOCK through my mother’s BENTLY side in Georgia.
Interestingly though, everyone seems to agree unanimouslythat Willis VESS is the son of a John VESS.
You can find a picture of his cabin on FindAGrave.com, posted by Anna Popejoy, who I’ve been told was a genealogist who has done Y-Chromosome testing.
We do not know who was tested specifically, as it had to be a male descendant, but supposedly there is a DNA connection between the Willis VESS line and the Peter VESS line. Where this connection is on the family tree is still a mystery.
According to online sources, John VESS was born abt. 1770 in North Carolina. He supposedly married Margaret VAUGHN and they had two sons: Willis VESS born abt. 1810 and John Peter VESS born abt. 1822.
According to my research, the VESS/VEST family from Virginia appears on record in North Carolina as early as 1790; obtaining land as early as 1798 (Stokes Co.). If they were in the area any earlier, it would have been Rowan County.
Many researchers (including myself) try to connect Willis VESS of Alabama to William Tunwell VEST (1735 VA-1812 NC) of Stokes County, North Carolina. But, research simply does not support any kind of connection between the two families (at least not directly).
William Tunwell VEST did have a son named John VEST. However, John VEST was born in Virginia (abt. 1765). He married Eliza RAY and you can follow him on several census records with his brothers (Charles, William, and SamuelVEST) in Stokes County, North Carolina. He died in 1833. So, he is likely not the father of Willis VESS.
Intriguing New Discoveries
Current research suggests that William Tunwell VEST may have not been the only VESS/VEST family in North Carolina!
I have been working on compiling VESS, VEST, VOSS, and VASS marriages from 1790-1820. Majority of the VEST marriages are in Stokes County, North Carolina with connections with William Tunwell VEST (his children and his grandchildren); however, there are a couple (very scarce) odd balls in neighboring counties (Surry and Wilkes) that do not seem to have any direct connection with William Tunwell VEST.
But even more intriguing…
Sources say the parents of Willis VESS are John VESS and Margret VAUGHN.
Well, while compiling marriage records, I found a PETER VEST and a “PUGNANCE VAUGHN” married on November 24, 1785 in Henry County, Virginia.
As mentioned in my last post, I have discovered a VESS family in Patrick County, Virginia who do not have any documented connections with anyone. Are they VESS or VEST?
Patrick County, VA was established in 1791 and was previously part of Henry County, VA. So, this Peter VEST (married to Pugnance VAUGHN) may be connected to the VESS family in Patrick County, VA.
Interestingly, this gives us a “Peter” VEST married in 1785 and a “Jonathan” Vess married in 1792. So, I couldn’t help but wonder... is there an older Nathaniel Vess?
There is! Well, a Nathaniel VEST, born 1791 in Virginia (died in Indiana). It is not just the name “Nathaniel” that intrigues me, but also his spouse, whose maiden name is “DUNCAN.”
Is his spouse, Lavina DUNCAN, related to the John DUNCAN who appears on the Patrick County, VA Land Tax record with Peter and Samuel VESS??
Also, note…I found a WHITLOCK too (bottom of a 1792 Patrick CO. Land Tax record).
As usual, this intriguing find does not seem to bring us any closer to connecting the Willis VESS line to the Peter/Nathan Vess line. Nor does it bring us any closer to finding out who Peter and Nathan’s parents are…
1) Although Nathaniel VEST of Virginia is not old enough to be the father of our Peter and Nathan Vess, Jonathan and Peter VESS/VEST (of Virginia) are, BUT…
2) Our Nathan VESS was supposedly born in South Carolina and so was his parents. [Ref. 1880 Mortality Record]
3) The parents of Willis VESS were supposedly born in North Carolina. [Ref.various census records]
4) Jonathan Vess of Patrick County, Virginia who married Elizabeth Heron migrated to Republic of Texas in 1820. [Ref. Texas history]
So, who is the John Vess on Peter’s 1830 land record??
Other information that might relate to Willis VESS:
1) 1860 census record states Willis VESS was born in Indiana, but all other census records state he was born in North Carolina.
2) There is supposedly a Willis VESS in South Carolina. I will check my notes again.
3) Talitha WHITLOCK was born in Georgia (abt. 1820). Her mother is Elizabeth GREEN.
Peter’s son, Josiah VESS has a connection with a GREEN family in Rutherford County, NC through his spouse, Zilla Early. I will look to see if there are any connections.
4) Peter’s son Alfred VESS migrated to Georgia after the Civil War and I often wondered, if there was already family out there or if the war landed him there.
5) Supposedly Peter’s line eventually made it up to Indiana, but I cannot remember when or who went up there. I am not familiar with any family from Peter’s line moving to Alabama. I will double check though.
What Are Your Thoughts?
I don’t have enough evidence to make any solid conclusions about the VESS family in Patrick County, VA, but I did want to share my findings with everyone.
Please feel free to share your thoughts in the comments section or join us on the Vess Genealogy Facebook Group.
Anyone who has researched Peter Vess, has likely come across a “Peter Vest” on a War of 1812-1814 military service record for Surry County, North Carolina. Unfortunately, there are no other records to support a connection with our Peter Vess.
I can honestly tell you, the Surry County, NC War of 1812 record, meant very little to me a month ago; but now, after extensively researching different families in North Carolina, a few names on this record stand out in which require further investigation…
Earlier Research: William Tunwell Vest
My earlier research on the VEST family largely focused around a William Tunwell Vest of Stokes County, North Carolina.
According to an 1812 probate record, he had a wife named Lucy (ALFORD) and they had 9 children: Samuel, Charles, William Jr., Isham, John, Elizabeth, Polly, Jenny (Jane) and Mary.
The only interesting thing I found in regards to William Tunwell Vest is a neat account regarding his son Charles Erwin Vest:
Summary: In 1792, the Board of Commissioners came together in search of a person who would manage a building project for the “Statehouse.”
Later documents suggest it was the rebuilding of the Guilford Courthouse.
Charles Vest [whose occupation, on census records, states manufacture] “made an offer;” however, “never reported his estimate.” The project was then appointed to Rhodham Atkins.
North Carolina Digital Collection
Unfortunately, there are no records connecting the VEST and VESS families together.
I think many VESS researchers are attracted to William Tunwell VEST, because at first glance, he truly makes a great lead in Vess Genealogy:
1) VESS and VEST are similar surnames and we do find many records for our Peter under the surname VEST.
2) He lives in North Carolina. According to census records, our Peter was supposedly born in North Carolina.
3) He is from Virginia. According to our family story, our VESS family traveled from Virginia to the Carolinas.
4) His sons are old enough to be Peter’s father and one of them was named “John.”
“Charles” Peter Vess May Not Exist
Sometimes, you might see the name “Charles Peter VESS” as Peter Vess of Rutherford County, North Carolina.
In my opinion, I do not think there is a “Charles” Peter Vess and that the name originated from researchers trying to connect Peter Vess to the William Tunwell VEST line.
See, Charles Erwin VEST (son of William Tunwell VEST) had a son named Charles VEST Jr., who married a woman named Catherine. [*Correction: Catharina] I strongly believe that many quickly assumed thathad to bePeter [Vess] and Catharine “Katy” [Cook] and therefore, “Charles” must be Peter’s first name.
Unfortunately, when new records began to reveal more about Charles Vest Jr. and his wife Catharina VOGLER (who married in 1809), the idea that Peter Vess is “Charles Peter Vess” was already stuck in circulation on the Internet.
But of course, I could be wrong.
The Vest Family: What I Do Know
The VEST family is just as complicated and fascinating as our VESS family.
You can find many public family trees related to the VEST family on Ancestry.com, MyHertiage.com, Familysearch.org, Wikitree.com, etc.; however, none seem to be consistent and very few offer solid records to support their findings.
I do not know where the VEST family comes from; however, some public VEST family trees date their lineage back to Germany through a MOSES VEST, born in 1650 Basel, Warendorf, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany. I have not come across any trees with attached documentation though; so I cannot confirm this is true.
VEST Family Tree: DRAFT (not entirely accurate)
I DO KNOW the VEST family originated in Powhatan and Chesterfield County, Virginia (1700’s) and migrated down to Bedford and Franklin County, before migrating west out of Virginia into Kentucky, Missouri, and Indiana; with the exception of William Tunwell Vest who migrated down into Stokes County, North Carolina.
Unfortunately, there are no records (as of yet) connecting the VEST and VESS families together, but there are still a few early VEST and VESS records lingering around without a connection to either family.
A “VESS” Family In Virginia
I cannot tell you how exciting it is to see the VESS name on early Virginia records!
Revolutionary War Records If you dig deep enough, you can find the “VESS” name on documents dating back as early as the Revolutionary War!
So far, I’ve uncovered a Peter and Samuel “VESS” on Revolutionary War records. I remember I found 3 of them, but I cannot remember the 3rd name (sorry).
Samuel Vess 1779 Revolutionary War record – Ancestry.com Corporal Peter Vess 1777 Revolutionary War record – Ancestry.com
Before dismissing them as VEST family though, I have found a pocket of VESS’s hanging out in Patrick County, Virginia in which I have yet to figure out whose tree they belong on (VESS or VEST).
Patrick County, Virginia Perhaps, Peter and Samuel Vess on the Revolutionary War records (above) are the same Peter and Samuel Vess listed on the 1790’s Patrick County Land Tax record.
The Samuel listed on the 1790 tax record could be Samuel Harvey VEST (b. 1757 VA), son of William Tunwell Vest. He would have been old enough to serve during the Revolutionary War and Patrick County, VA is just above Stokes County, North Carolina; however, there is no documentation to support it. I DO KNOW, the Peter listed above is too old to be our Peter Vess.
Interestingly, that’s not even the only VESS record for Patrick County, NC! There is also a marriage record for Jonathan VESS and Elizabeth HERON dated 1792.
This is supposedly, Jonathan Vess who traveled to the Republic of Texas in 1825 and helped establish Morales, Texas. I have no idea who his parents are and whether or not he is a VEST or a VESS.
And lastly, I have discovered a William VESS of (Koger Creek) Patrick County, Virginia on a Deed record located on RootsWeb.com.
Interestingly, other names listed beside him include JOHN DUNCAN (like John Duncan shown above with Peter and Samuel Vess) and a JAMES HERON, as in Elizabeth HERON who married Jonathan VESS. I am not sure if this William VESS is Jonathan “William” VESS, which is a name that is often associated with Jonathan VESS of Texas (married to Elizabeth Heron).
So, just a quick recap: There is a Peter, Samuel, Jonathan, and William (Jonathan and William might be the same) VESS in Patrick County, VA in the 1790’s that do not have any records connecting them to either the VEST or VESS family.
Unfortunately, early census records for Patrick County, VA have been lost. 😦 BUT, Patrick County, VA was created from Henry County in 1790, which was created from Pittslyvania County in 1776; in which, leads me back to the Peter VEST on the War of 1812-1814 military service record…
Many surnames on that record are connected to families who originated from Pittsylvania County, Virginia and some have connections to the VEST family (William Tunwell VEST) as well as the BELLEW family (Nathan’s wife’s family)!
Next Stop In Research: Virginia
I feel as if I am getting closer!!
I have not explored Virginia yet and I don’t think I would have been very successful at researching records in Virginia (in the beginning) without knowing what I know now.
Virginia is a tough state to research, for that early records are super scarce. If your family didn’t do anything significant, their record is likely not available yet, especially, digitally.
Digital records for Virginia are broadly Indexed and requires hours upon hours of scrolling through digitalized slides of records. Simply, you can’t just type in a specific name and it will take you directly to the record pertaining to that name…you have to know a time, place, and event and then search from there, deciphering scribbles from deteriorated records. Super fun!
But, I am motivated, excited, and ready for a new challenge!
I will be sure to post an update on my research soon!
Yesterday, I had this ingenious plan to locate the parents of Nathan Vess! Unfortunately, it isn’t the most easiest of ingenious plans.
I am a firm believer that the reason why Vess genealogy is so difficult, is because of a name change! The challenge now is figuring out what original surname our “Vess” name evolved from!
Here are my candidates based North and South Carolina census records 1790-1820.
VEST WEST BEST VOSS
Name variants (as found on census records): VIST VERT VASS BASS BOSS BESS WIST BOST VOST WISS VISS VAST BAST
My Monster SpreadSheet
I’ve decided to use a spreadsheet to track families with similar names in areas where I know some of Peter and Nathan’s neighbors and family have been.
So far, I am beginning to see distinct family migration patterns emerge…
As you can see, the WEST family is pretty widespread.
According to the WEST FAMILY DNA PROJECT, there are several different WEST lines with majority of them being connected to an orphan from England. There is also a West line connected to the Thomas West, Baron De La Warr and Benjamin West, an 18th century American artist.
UPDATE: According to several researchers who have done Y-chromosome research, it has been confirmed that there is no DNA relationship between Vess and West families. 🙂
Now, their DNA records do show that there is a West family connection with the South Carolina West family, but they do not know whose line they originate from. They also have a list of unrelated WEST families, with the assumption there was a name change at some point. Interestingly, while browsing the list, a few familiar names caught my eye.
Unfortunately, the WEST FAMILY DNA PROJECT website has been taken down or moved without a working link; so, I am unable to reference it again. However, I did manage to download a few pages of information the last time the website was active. 😉
Hopefully, with a little more investigation, I will be able to separate different WEST families.
Well, that is my project for the week!
Revisiting The VEST family
I did come across an interesting thing on the VEST family, but I don’t want to get side-tracked! I really need to work on the WEST family first. BUT, according to a BIO on FindMyGrave.com, for a VEST ancestor, it states their family is of “Scotch Irish origin.”
This is interesting for several reasons: 1) John Jay Vest is related to North Carolina Senator George Vest. 2) “Jay” is a surname that is related to both BEST and WEST families. And, middle names, especially, prior to the 1800’s, came from their mother or grandmother’s maiden name. 3) More importantly, this is the first time that I’ve seen anything stating the VEST family having Scot-Irish origins. Other family trees (a lot of them) have traced the VEST family to a Moses Vest (1600’s) from Germany.
This really needs further investigating…but first, the WEST family!
Andrew Logan Vess is one of my favorite ancestors to research, mostly because he actually exists on record! He has several records, which seems pretty rare for the Vess family!
Andrew “Andy” Logan Vess (1825-1905)
Nearly two hundred years ago, on April 25, 1825, Andrew Logan Vess was born in Rutherford County, North Carolina. He is the 3rd son of Peter Vess and Catherine “Katie” Crook.
Although records for Andrew Logan Vess are not entirely scarce, none actually pertain to his personal life.
Who he was as a man, husband, father and/or gentlemen is lost; however, we have been able to uncover several interesting events that occurred during his life.
*Correction: Catherine CROOK
Whereabouts He Grew Up
Records, as early as 1820, show Andrew’s parents, Peter and Catherine, living in Rutherford County, North Carolina.
Further research suggests that they were likely living somewhere on Knobs Creek near Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. Catherine’s father, John Crook, husband of Rachel Haynes, owned land next to her maternal grandfather’s land (William Haynes).
According to Helen M. Lu’s, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, Peter and Catherine were members between 1829-1836, and Catherine’s grandfather, William Haynes, was one of the first pastors.
When Andrew Logan Vess was 6 years old, in 1831, his father obtained “100 acres of land on both sides of Cedar Creek in Rutherford County;” which has been narrowed down to an area located in today’s Broad River Township (now part of Buncombe County).
In 1838, records show his father, Peter Vess, was a member of Bethlehem Baptist Church of Burke County (now part of McDowell County); which is located not too far from his property in Broad River; which explains their absence from Bill’s Creek Baptist Church between 1836-1844.
Bethlehem Baptist Church was an extension of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church and both were part of the Catawba River Association (Helen M. Lu, pg. 15 & 86).
At the age of 19, in 1844, records show that Andrew’s mother, Catherine, returned to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church without Peter; suggesting that Peter may have died. According to deed records, Peter gave his land to a J. Souther, to cover a debt.
At the age of 21, in 1846, Andrew Logan Vess and his brothers, also become members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church (without Peter), suggesting the family likely moved back to Knobs Creek.
First Wife: Linnia Halford
At the age of 24, on May 14, 1849, Andrew Logan Vess marries his first wife, Lucy Malinda “Linnia” Halford, the daughter of Thomas Halford and Sarah “Lollie” Jane Hill.
Andrew and Linnia had 7 children together: Calvin Bailey, William Columbus, James Harvey, John Alexander, Sarah Catherine, Pinkney Elcanah, and Thomas Logan.
John Alexander Vess, son of Andrew Vess and Linnia Halford (1857-1939) [Ancestry.com]From 1800’s cipher and practice book
In 1850, Andrew and his family are shown living near his in-laws, Thomas and Sarah Halford in Montford Cove, Rutherford County, North Carolina.
Military: Civil War
At the age of 38, on Sept. 1, 1863, Andrew Logan Vess joined the military. He served as a Confederate solider (private rank) under the 62nd Regiment, North Carolina Infantry, Company F.
Andrew served in the same Regiment as Nathan’s son, Abraham Vess of Haywood County. Unfortunately, Abraham was captured at Cumberland Gap and imprisoned at Douglass Camp. It does not look like Andrew was every captured nor are there any records indicating if he was ever wounded during his service.
Second Wife: Cynthia Conner
After the Civil War, in 1866, at the age of 41, Andrew’s first wife dies, leaving him a widower with 7 young children (the youngest being 1 year-old and the oldest being 16).
Several months later, on Jan 1, 1867, he married Cynthia Conner, a local midwife and daughter of Allen Conner and Mary Polly Crawford.
According to Helen M. Lu’s, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, the new Bill’s Creek Baptist Church was built upon land owned by Issac Conner, Cynthia’s uncle.
Andrew Logan and Cynthia Conner had 6 children together: David Andrew, Linnie, Easter, Noah M., George Washington, and Allen “Andy” Peter.
Noah M. Vess, son of Andrew Logan Vess and Cynthia Conner (1875-1958) [Ancestry.com]
Andrew, like his father, was a farmer. Census records show, that Andrew and his family eventually settled in Broad River (now McDowell County) near Old Fort.
The 1900 census record reveals that he owned a farm; however, it is difficult to determine the location of his farm. It is also not known as to whether or not, he inherited his father’s property on Cedar Creek. [Information about his homesite has been shared in the comments below]
Troubles At Church
The book, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu, has been a great resource for information pertaining to the Bill’s Creek community, especially, information regarding Andrew Logan Vess.
The following are some interesting accounts mentioned in Lu’s book:
Case of Brother Andrew L. Vess “On 6 April 1862, he objected to himself on “account of drinking too much spiritous liquors.” After relating his conviction for the sin of intoxication he promised “to drink no more only as medicine.”
Bill’s Creek Baptist Church : Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu (page 109)
Excluded “Vess, A. L. Excluded 4 Jan. 1867 for distilling some brandy for the purpose of paying debts and providing for his family.”
Bill’s Creek Baptist Church : Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu (page 153)
Interestingly, a few days before he was excluded, he married Cynthia Conner.
Excluded “A. L. Vess Excluded 4 Oct. 1877 for joining Free-will Baptist.”
Bill’s Creek Baptist Church : Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu (page 189)
According to Lu, he re-joined Bill’s Creek in 1874 and 1893, “by recantation.”
Death: Old Fort, North Carolina
Davistown Cemetery Findagrave.com Gravestone only displays his birthdate; likely, because it is not the original gravestone and date of death on the original gravestone was likely illegible.
Andrew Logan Vess died on June 10, 1905, in Old Fort, McDowell County, North Carolina. He is buried at Davistown Cemetery, next to Davistown Free-will Baptist Church. According to family, the cemetery used to be the Davis Family Cemetery.
Ancestry.com
We know that Andrew Logan Vess left Bill’s Creek Baptist Church for a Free-will Baptist church, but that church was not named on record. Perhaps, it was Davistown Free Will Baptist, but there doesn’t seem to be any available information about when Davistown Free-will Baptist Church was initially formed.
Citations: Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History 1782-1982, by Helen M. Lu.
At the age of 38, on Sept. 1, 1863, Andrew Logan Vess joined the military. He served as a Confederate solider (private rank) under the 62nd Regiment, North Carolina Infantry, Company F. 
Vess Genealogy 