The Vess family came over to America with an O’Donnell and O’Neill. O’Neill was an outlaw, wanted by the English Crown. He changed his name to Mac Hugh or something referring to his red hair. The Vess family loved and respected him.
Descendant of David Andrew Vess
The O’Donnell Vess
On Ancestry.com, many family trees show the father of Peter Vess as O’Donnell Vess from Tyrone County, Ireland.
I had the opportunity to meet a descendant of David Andrew Vess who kindly shared with me the story of O’Donnell Vess, stating it to be a very important family story.
I’ve researched the O’Donnell-Vess connection extensively, but found no genealogical records to support a connection. So, who was this Mac Hugh our family so highly respected?
I did; however, discovered a true historical event regarding an O’Donnell and O’Neill family during the 16th century in Ulster, Northern Ireland.
“Red Hugh O’Donnell” is a real person from Donegal Ireland who was rivals against the O’Neill family from Tyrone, Ireland. Red Hugh was in-prisoned by an English Lord in Dublin Castle, but later escaped with the help of the O’Neill family. Unfortunately, neither of them came to America; however, this is a well known Irish story that Irish settlers would have most certainly brought to the new world. But why was this story so important us?
O’Donnell – O’Neill families fought a Nine Year War in Ireland together and is a very important part of Ireland history.
Because the O’Donnell and O’Neill family did not seem to have connections with America or any direct connections with the Vess family (that I can tell), I began searching for American outlaws. Perhaps, the family story was a mix of different people and events?
Interestingly, during the time of David Andrew Vess, there was a notorious American outlaw who was highly respected by the residents in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. The Dark Corners included Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina where the Bellew and Gosnell families were well established; and David Andrew Vess married Magnolia Gosnell. The outlaws name was Lewis Redmond.
Again, I was unable to find a direct connection with the Vess family. Perhaps the family story…is just a story.
The Mysterious Hodge-Vess Connection
The story of the man named after his red-hair that the Vess family highly respected was something I forgot about until just recently, when I stumbled upon John “Red Head” Hodge.
The HODGE (HOGE) name has come up in discussion several times over the past year between me and the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, but we just don’t know how they fit into Vess Genealogy.
The Willis and Peter Vess lines appear to match closely with a HODGE family, but their connection is unknown.
Vincent Vess, who had researched the Hodge family much more extensively than I, had pointed out that there is a Hodge family living near the Vess family in White County, Tennessee.
Further research reveals that this Hodge family comes from Franklin County, Virginia (once part of Patrick-County, VA). I discovered that Robert Hodge, father of Abner Hodge (above) was living in a place called Chestnut Creek, about 30 miles away from William Vess/Voss & Peter Vess on Koger Creek in Patrick County, VA!
According to information provided to me from the co-admins of the Vess Family DNA Project, we match closely with the descendants of Isham Hodge, Abner’s brother. However, we have yet to discover a connection.
Supposedly, Isham and Abner Hodge have a brother whose name is John “Red Head” Hodge. Is this the man named for his red hair that the Vess family highly respected???
John “Red Head” Hodge- Research In Progress
I’m still researching John “Red Head” Hodge.
There are numerous John Hodges (of course, with a name like John), but right now, my focus is on two of them:
The first one that caught my attention is a John “Red Head” Hodge , brother of Isham Hodge, who supposedly married Lucy Elizabeth Dalton, daughter of David Dalton Sr. of Rutherford County, NC.
Lucy Elizabeth Dalton is the sister of Nancy (Sally) Dalton, grandmother of Lucy Malinda Linnia Halford, wife of Andrew Logan Vess! However, other family trees, state she married Reuben Searcy instead (perhaps she married both). So, who is this Lucea Dalton and John Hodges in Franklin County, VA and is this John, in fact, John “Red Head” Hodge?
I mean, it would make sense considering the Vess and Dalton families have known each other for what seems like forever!
There is another John Hodge that some on Ancestry refer to as “Red Head” Hodge, but he resides in Abbeville, South Carolina and married Frances Anderson. According to other genealogy websites that provide more ancestral history, he was known as “Major” Hodge, for having served in the Revolutionary War. I am not sure if he is actually “Red Head” Hodge, but his presence in Abbeville is intriguing.
I wish I had more to share, but at this time, I am still researching.
Well folks, the plot in Vess genealogy thickens! Dun…Dun…DUN!! Are you ready!!!
The Travers and Vess families appear to be one family!
Awaiting Nail-Biting Seat-Clinching Results
Results from Big-Y tests are remarkably fascinating and invaluable to Family DNA projects, as they have the potential to shake up the ancestral tree with the equivalent force of an 8.0-magnitude earthquake! In short, big changes can occur, rewriting family history!
We’ve been anxiously waiting test results for a Big-Y-tester whose Travers family line connects to the early Travers families in Cork, Ireland.
Although it has been highly suspected that the Travers families of Lancashire, England and the Travers families of Cork, Ireland are related, there has been no genealogical evidence (records) to prove it.
Travers families from both Lancashire, England and Cork, Ireland migrated to America during the late 1600’s; but again, there is no genealogical evidence (or DNA evidence) to prove these two Travers families are of the same lineage. Those from Lancashire, England, settled in Dorchester, Maryland and those from Cork, Ireland settled in areas around Pasquotank, North Carolina.
For the Travers family, a genetic connection between the two geographically distant Travers families (England and Ireland) would be a great new discovery!
For the Vess family, it may provide more answers to our mysterious connection with the Travers family and possibly revealing our true origins!
The TRAVERS/VESS Branch
The Big-Y test assigned the new Travers line (with Ireland connections) to R-CTS11317, which is an English/Scottish branch consisting of the Travers and Vess families.
DNA results strongly suggest (without a doubt) that the TRAVERS and VESS families are one family. Not only is our Vess family genetically related to numerous Travers families from England, but also now a Travers family line from Cork, Ireland!
These DNA results are exciting for everyone! For the Travers family, this opens the door to further explore more early Ireland – England family connections. With more Y-testers, researchers may be able to determine (approximately) when the Ireland lines split from England. For the Vess family, this opens the door to explore Travers genealogy for clues to our “Vess” origins. With more Y-testers, we may be able to identify our direct Travers-Vess line!
DNA results also strongly suggest the Travers and Vess families may have a Norman connection, which is further supported by research published by Albert E. Casey, titled: “Southern Travis, Travers, Traverse families from Lancashire and post-Elizabethan Ireland.” According to Casey, the Travers family is an old Norman family name that settled in Lancashire, England when William the Conquerer invaded England in 1066.
English / Scottish Branch: Travers-Vess branch boxed in yellow
Unfortunately, the newly added Travers line with Ireland connections did not provide any further information about the Travers-Vess lines in America; most likely, because this particular Travers line did not go to America. The ancestral split between the Vess family and this particular Travers line has not been determined yet.
When it comes to looking at the Travers and Vess families in America, DNA data does reveal that the Vess family (descendants of Peter and Willis Vess) split from the Travers of Dorchester, Maryland sometime prior to 1665 in England/Scotland. This means, the Vess families of Rutherford County, North Carolina and Franklin County, Alabama did not directly descend from the Travers families from Maryland in America; but instead, the Vess family most likely broke off from a different unknown Travers line. Whether that ancestral split occurred in America or across the Atlantic, is still yet to be known.
Y-DNA Testing For Vess Families Is Important
Even though it appears the Vess family surname is relatively “young,” in comparison to the Travers surname that appears to date back to William the Conquerer, it is still important for Vess families to do more Y-DNA testing as there is so much we do not know about our family’s early history in America.
There is no available Y-DNA data for Nathaniel and Jonathan Vess yet; however, such testing would most likely provide fascinating results! It’s been highly suspected that Nathaniel and Jonathan Vess are related, but there is no genealogical evidence (records) to prove it and because they lived over 200+ years ago, Autosomal DNA tests will eventually (sooner rather than later) no longer be able to detect shared DNA relatives.
Y-DNA testing from descendants of the Nathaniel and Jonathan Vess lines will not only help us better understand their connection to each other, but also to other Vess lines in America. At this time, we aren’t even sure if they are related to Peter and Willis Vess or if they too have a genetic connection with the Travers family.
In addition to Nathaniel and Jonathan Vess, we also have other Vess lines to explore, such as the Vess family in Ohio who are descendants of Hiram Vess of Rockbridge County, Virginia. At this time, we do not know the origins of the Vess family in Rockbridge County, Virginia. Are they related to the Travers family too OR are they related to another family with a similar surname: VOSS, VASS, VICE, or VEST.
Although Peter and Willis Vess did not split from the Travers family from Maryland directly, could there be another Vess line that did who we have yet to discover?
Y-DNA testing from descendants with the Travers, Travis, Traverse, Vess, Voss, and Vass names still have so much to tell us!
Vess Origin Story Historically AccurateAfter All?
Interestingly, Y-DNA data is beginning to prove our Vess family origin story as somewhat historically accurate!
According to the Vess family origin story, the Vess family descends from three brothers from Ireland. One version told, specifically states it was “Cork,” Ireland. Also, as if universally accepted as family fact, the Vess name is not our original surname. Some say it was once pronounced as “Voss” whereas others say it was shortened or completely changed.
This is incredibly fascinating, especially, as there are genealogical records for the Travers family in America under the surname “TRAVESS.” TRA-VESS (or perhaps once pronounced as TRAVOSS) eventually evolved into the surname TRAVIS. We have found that the South Carolina TRAVIS families to be connected to the TRAVERS families in North Carolina who came from Cork, Ireland.
This has lead some Vess family researchers to wonder, if the VESS surname was formed in America rather than across the Atlantic? And, if more Travers families test, will we find an ancestral split between the Travers and Vess families, perhaps along the Cork, Ireland Travers line?
It’s only a matter of time, before the mysteries of our Vess family’s history are finally revealed!
This summary of recent Y-DNA updates is based on information available on familytreedna.com and information kindly provided by Michael Travers, co-admin of the Vess Family DNA Project. Thank you Mike!! 🙂
The Vess family has a close genetic relationship with the Travers family from Lancashire, England; however, at this time, we do not have enough Y-DNA testers to determine whether we are close cousins or a branch of the TRAVERS family who veered off with a different surname (VESS). Y-DNA testing and genealogical records has revealed some insightful information that greatly warrants more Y-Testers and genealogical research.
Y-DNA: Travers & Vess Families
Y-DNA analysis reveals that the Vess and Travers families are closely related. Unfortunately, our testing pool is small; Y-Testers include a couple of descendants from the Peter Vess line, one descendant from the Willis Vess line, and two descendants of the Travers line from England who are related to the Travers family in Dorchester, Maryland, USA. We do not have any Y-Testers yet from the Nathaniel Vess line (South Carolina) or the Jonathan Vess line (Texas); however, autosomal DNA suggests a distant relationship.
Vess Family DNA Project
Last year, the VESS and TRAVERS families were assigned into the same group CTS11317; then one of the Vess Y-testers (Peter’s line) completed the Big-Y Test, which broke it down further, re-assigning the VESS family their own sub-group R-FT19517. This suggests the two families may have split sometime prior to 1665 in England.
Haplogroup Tree YP4131
A Possible Connection With A Travers Family From Ireland?
What we know for certain, based on available Y-DNA information, is that the VESS family did not split from the TRAVERS line who settled in Dorchester, Maryland, USA. Our ancestral split from their particular line occurred in England before they immigrated to America. But, they were not the only Travers family to immigrate to America…
This finding is intriguing, for that their documented history is remarkably similar to the Vess family story about three brothers from Ireland. In one version of the Vess family story, it specifically mentions the three brothers having come from “Cork, Ireland.”
Furthermore, the TRAVERS surname for this particular line in America evolved into TRAVIS, with a couple of records discovered with the surname spelling of TRAVESS. This is also an intriguing find, considering that the VESS family had always been told that the VESS name is not their original surname. It is believed that their original surname was “shortened,” and/or was pronounced as “VOSS.”
If we consider thick accents of the time, the name TRAVIS could have easily been heard as “TRAVOSS,” and it is entirely plausible that overtime the “TRA” was eventually dropped, just leaving VOSS, which could have easily evolved into VESS. As records show, the “VESS” name didn’t exactly take hold (record-wise) until the 1830’s, and prior to that, it was a mix of VEST and VOSS, perhaps even VASS, likely due to terrible handwriting where the “e,” “o,” and “a” were difficult to tell apart. This would also explain why we see a pocket of VOSS/VASS families near the TRAVERS/TRAVIS families in North Carolina.
According to The Vaulx Family of England, Virginia, and Maryland, it is believed that the VASS families of Virginia /North Carolina “maybe” related to the VAUX family of Virginia (descendants of the Norman De Vallibus family), but there is no solid evidence to confirm such a connection, since there is no record on where the VASS/VOSS families of Virginia/North Carolina originated from across the Atlantic. Perhaps, some of the VASS/VOSS families have a surname that may have evolved from the TRAVERS line??
Although this information is intriguing and very favorable towards the mysterious origins of the VESS family, we do not have any solid evidence to make any final concrete conclusions.
Investigating The Travers Family In The Carolinas
We have only just begun researching the Travers family of North and South Carolina. We know there is a Francis Travers (sometimes Travis) of Tyron County, North Carolina who had land in the modern-day Spartanburg County, SC area in the 1760’s. He descends from the Travers family from Ireland.
Just recently, we discovered a pocket of Travers who are connected to Abbeville, SC, which is intriguing, for that we have an unknown VESS family in the same area in 1850. The Travers family from Ireland have earlier connections in Pasquotank, Pitt, and Beaufort counties in North Carolina. Interestingly, near these areas, we also have the Voss/Vass families whose origins, like the Vess family, are also undetermined.
Further investigation is needed.
Y-Testers NEEDED: Participant Info
To further unravel the mysterious connection between the VESS and TRAVERS family, we need more DNA participants.
We encourage EVERYONE to join the VESS Family DNA Project via FamilyTreeDNA.com.Autosomal DNA tests (from both male and female participants) helps us identify new Vess family lines and has the potential to help us locate genealogical records to make more family connections. Y-DNA tests from male participants from various family lines can help us further understand the connection between the VESS & TRAVERS family. Are we cousins or direct descendants of the same family?
Interested in testing? Please visit the Vess Family DNA Project to contact co-admins for more information or email vessgenealogy@gmail.com
TRANSFER FOR FREE: If you have already completed an autosomal DNA test or Y-DNA test from another company, you may have the option to transfer your data to FamilytreeDNA.com. Transfers are free with a FamilytreeDNA.com account; however, there is a $19 fee, if you wish to access more account tools. This is much cheaper than opening an account by having to order a new DNA test. Please check out this post for more information and instructions about transferring data to FamilytreeDNA.com.
Y-TESTERS NEEDED:
We need more Y-Testers from various family lines: Willis Vess line, Nathaniel Vess line, Travers/ Travis Carolina lines, and VOSS, VAULX, VASS, family lines. There are three Y-DNA tests available:
The Y-37 test helps us identify new Vess/Travers lines. The Y-111 test helps us identify families closely related to us. The Big-Y helps us further understand ancestral splits between closely related families.
Big – Y Testers Needed
We are seeking more Big-Y Testers, specifically from the Willis Vess line and Travers/Travis North & South Carolina line. Participants need to be male and have either the VESS, TRAVERS, TRAVIS surname. For more information about the Big-Y and pricing, please contact Michael Travers or Vincent Vess; contact info is available on the Vess Family DNA Project website.
This is a long post, but I assure you it is worth the read…
Friendly Reminder: The opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.
Tangled DNA Matches
Genetic genealogy is a great tool in locating stuborn early ancestors; however, the colossal challenge of analyzing autosomal DNA is that it is limited to only 6-8 generations.
For me, my autosomal DNA largely captures descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Lucy Malinda Halford (my 3rd great grandparents – 6th generation). It also detects a good portion of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Cinthia Conner, because we share a good deal of DNA from Andrew Logan Vess.
As we move over on the Vess family tree to the siblings of Andrew Logan Vess (John, Josiah, Alfred, etc.), those matches are more distant as they are barely detectable with <1% DNA match. Interestingly though, comparing the number of shared DNA segments (cM), I match closer to descendants of Willis Vess than I do to the descendants of Nathan Vess, sometimes more closely than the siblings of Andrew Logan Vess! This, in my opinion, likely has A LOT to do with my mother’s deep roots in South Carolina and Georgia.
It is extremely difficult to pry apart my parents shared southern DNA matches. My mother matches with ALL the descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Lucy Malinda “Linnia” Halford (the bulk of my shared Vess matches) on my father’s side, because Linnia Halford’s mother, Sarah Jane “Lollie” HILL, is a descendant of William Augustus Hill, my mother’s 7th great-grandfather. To make matters worse, the Halford and Hill families lived next to each other on Knobs Creek in Rutherford County, North Carolina, mingling with so many families connected to the Vess family!
Thomas J. Halford & Sarah Jane “Lollie” Hill Rutherford County, North Carolina
My mother’s Hill line eventually settled in Anderson, Abbeville County, South Carolina, which just so happens to be a hot spot where many families of interest seem to have converged at one point or another. One HILL ancestor of mine, found his way to Greenville, South Carolina and connected with a BENTLEY from Georgia, opening the flood gates to even more deeper roots in the South.
With this, my mother seems to shares DNA matches with many southern families, including the Nathaniel Vice family (via a Turley connection) that migrated to Alabama as they passed through Georgia.
Interestingly, my mother does not share DNA matches with descendants of REUBEN VICE of South Carolina, who is the son of John Vice and Frances Roebuck. She also does not share DNA matches with VICE families in Kentucky who are likely connected to Nathaniel Vice II (brother of John Vice of South Carolina). This is interesting, because if she doesn’t share those matches, it is likely a connection on my VESS line.
How do I know it’s not a connection on my parents maternal lines? DNA matches suggest a connection within 6-8 generations back, which would greatly eliminated my parents maternal sides who arrived late to the United States and had very little connection with the south. My father’s maternal side arrived in Ohio in 1894 from Austria and my mother’s maternal side arrived in Michigan in 1948 from England. When looking at shared matches, it is easy to identify and eliminate leads connected to my parents maternal sides.
Exploring Sarah A. Vess & Vardry McBee Connection
Vincent Vess, co-admin of the Vess Family DNA Project, has made an interesting discovery analyzing his own autosomomal DNA.
He discovered a shared DNA match with a Vess descendant of Alabama and a descendant of Sarah A. Vess and Vardry “Nodsed” McBEE; Sarah being the daughter of Jonathan Vess and Elizabeth Heron in Jackson County, Texas.
If the name Vardry McBeesounds oddly familiar, that is because it is a name often seen on many records in North Carolina. According to the Biographical Information section of McBEE Family Papers, Captain Vardry McBee was a constable in 1770 in Tryon County, North Carolina. His son, Vardry McBee Jr., later became a court clerk in Lincoln County, North Carolina in 1812.
The name “Vardry” is used numerous times throughout their family tree. Vardry “Nodsed” McBee, husband of Sarah Ann Vess, being one of them.
Vardry “Nodsed” McBee descends from Captain Vardry McBee (1734) and Hannah ECHOLS from Virginia via Silas Echols McBee Sr. (1765) who is the older brother of Vardry McBee Jr (1775), court clerk of Lincoln County, NC.
Unfortunately, not much is mentioned about Silas Echols McBee Sr. (1765) who appears to have settled in Kentucky. However, according to South Carolina Digital Records, there is a 1785 land record for Silas McBee, next to Vardry McBee (I assume his father-Sr.) on Thickety Creek in the 96th District of South Carolina. [Located North of the Pool and Pettit families] According to Revolutionary War Rosters, Silas and Vardry McBee served under Col. Roebuck (related to Francis Roebuck, wife of John Vice).
We do know that John Vice also had family in Kentucky via Nathaniel Vice II; however, very little is known about them.
Peter White of Texas – Discovery of Henry Vice of Virginia
When Jonathan Vess of Texas died, Elizabeth Heron married Peter White.
Peter White was born in Virginia (1801) to Shadrick White and Sarah Gibson. According to the Annuals of Soutwest Virginia 1769-1800 (pg. 1252), Shadrick was living in an area on or near “Madien Spring Fork Clinch River,” which is located in Tazewell County, VA near the North Fork Holston River.
*Note: Jonathan Vess and Peter White are both listed in Stephen F. Austins Register of Families, both having traveled from Missouri.
I decided to check for VICE families in and around the area and surprisingly, I discovered Henry VICE, living on South Fork Holston River, less than 50 miles away from the White family. Unfortunately, I do not know if Henry Vice is related to John and Nathaniel Vice, however, further research suggests there may be a connection.
1792: Henry Vice joins land with John Vaught and and Jarvis Smyth 1803: Henry Vice adds 60 acres to his own land 1803: Henry Vice joins land with Alexander Campbell and Crockett family 1806: Joseph Williams joins land with Henry Vice
County Boundaries Notes: Although records for Henry Vice state Wythe County, the South Fork of Holston River is not in Wythe County. It begins in modern day Smyth County and flows through Washington County. Wythe County used to cover parts of Smyth and Washington County prior to 1792. Wythe County also included modern day Tazewell County and extended all the way to Patrick County. Residents in the Holston River area are likely to have records under several different counties.
James Harvey Vest
A few months back I gained an interest in James Harvey Vest (1838) from Patrick County, VA. I noticed the name was on a list of Y-DNA results next to Willis Vess; however, it was explained to me that they are not related to each other, but curiously, neither of them are related to the VEST family of Virginia.
I reached out to W. Langdon, whose family has done extensive research on James Harvey Vest. With their help, I was able to check for shared DNA matches between our families and it turns out that my aunt (via her Vess line) does share a DNA match with a descendant of James Harvey Vest with two interesting families on their family tree: CAUDILL and VESSE (specifically Ephremia Vesse).
We could be connected through our family’s COX line (Pearl Cox), for that the COX and CAUDILL families were close together in Wilkes County, North Carolina. Interestingly, this was during a time when a William Vess was there.
I’ve seen Ephremia Vesse on many trees of shared DNA matches. She is the daughter of John “Vessey” and married Partick Conyngham (Cunningham). The interesting part is that sources say she died in Augusta County, Virginia. A place we have found shared DNA matches among the descendants of Willis and Peter Vess with a descendant of an early Logan family living in Augusta County, near the VESS/VEST family of Rockbridge County, VA. [I will share those findings in a different post, as I have found more pockets of VESS/VEST/ VICE families all along the western counties of Virginia]
CAUDILL and VESSE are also interesting, for that the VICE family supposedly descends from a VESSEY in Frederick County, VA and according to Appalachian Home website, CAUDILL and VICE families are listed as “Allied families.” What is the connection though?
In 1850, James Harvey Vest (1838) and his sister Nancy Vest were in Tazewell County, Virginia. His sister Nancy, married Joseph White, who I believe is related to the same White family as Peter White and her marriage record states she was born in Patrick County, VA and that her father is “Henry VOSS” and “Mary” (no last name). According to public trees on Ancestry.com, Mary may have a connection to the Caudle family. Could James Harvey Vest be related to Henry Vice?
But, it gets even more interesting…
James Heron: Holston River
I looked at land records for the Holston River area and discovered James Heron. Not only did he have land on the South Fork of the Holston River (like Henry Vice), but also on all the Forks of the Holston River, including the North Fork near the White family.
I can’t help but wonder,is this the same James Heron we see on the Patrick County, VA Deed Records 1791-1801 on Bull Mountain and Koger Creek with William Vess/Voss? Is this James Heron related to Elizabeth Heron, wife of Jonathan Vess of Texas?
The Genealogy Monkey Wrench: Y-DNA
I hate busting bubbles, but James Harvey Vest does not appear to be genetically related to our Vess family. Although we do share the same parent Haplogroup (R), our lineages separated thousands of years ago into R1a and R1b subgroups. Our Vess family branches from R1a, whereas James Harvey Vest branches from R1b. Yet, curiously, genealogical records strongly suggest that both our families may have a connection with the Vice family.
Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, there is no available information regarding Y-DNA testing for the VICE family.
But, there is a slight glimmer of hope for a connection, for that our VESS family is mysteriously closely related to the Travers family. So, in theory, it is still plausible that there could be a connection to all these families, perhaps through a half-sibling somewhere.
Quick Recap:
Genealogical records suggest a connection between the VESS and VICE families.
There appears to be a distant connection between an Alabama Vess and a descendant of Jonathan Vess of Texas (via Sarah A. Vess and Vardry McBee).
McBee family has history in North Carolina.
Elizabeth Heron married Peter White after the death of Johnathan Vess. The White family is from Tazewell County, Virginia.
Henry Vice (relation to John Vice family unknown) has land in the Holston River area near the White family.
Research strongly suggests that James Harvey Vest from Partick County, Virginia living in Tazewell County, VA in 1850, may have a connection with the Vice family too.
A marriage record for James Harvey Vest’s sister states their father is “Henry Voss.”
James HERON also has land in the Holston River area. Interestingly, we see the name James HERON with William VESS/VOSS on Bull Mountain and Koger Creek in Patrick County, VA deed records 1791-1801. Is this the same James Heron?
Jonathan Vess and Elizabeth Heron were married in Patrick County, VA.
Further research and autosomal DNA analysis suggests a Vess connection with early VICE families in Virginia and records have revealed more pockets of VESS/VEST/VOSS/VICE families throughout the western counties of Virginia.
Let’s start in Patrick He was born in Virginia, 1779 and married Elizabeth Heron in 1791, in Patrick County, Virginia. We have discovered a William Vess/Vest in Patrick County, Virginia living near the Heron family (Patrick County deed records). This is either Jonathan William Vess himself or perhaps his father.
In the mid-1820’s him and his wife, Elizabeth Heron, traveled to Missouri and then down to the Republic of Texas with Stephen F. Austin. In 1831, Jonathan received land from the Mexican government and gave a portion of his land to build the town of Morales, TX (a ghost-town today with a history of outlaws).
John died in 1846. His daughter, Mary Lorena Vess, married Samuel McCulloch Jr., who was a free-slave, famously known for fighting in the Texas Revolution.
Although the VESS/VEST family of Patrick County, Virginia (1790-1801) are extremely intriguing and seem like a promising connection, I am drawn back to the Dark Corners of South Carolina. I decided to take another look at Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess. Looking at all my research, I have come to realize that the early families surrounding them, all came from South Carolina.
Peter: Pettit and Toney families. Willis: Nichols, Willis, Askews, Whitlock families (many more) Nathan: Bellew and Gosnell families
Of course, these families all have different origin-origins, like the Pettit family come from New Jersey, the Gosnell family come from Maryland, and the Nichols, Willis, Askews (Eskews) and Whitlock families come from Virginia; but all of them, just before they appear with our earliest known Vess ancestors (Peter, Willis, and Nathan) … were all in South Carolina; more specifically, the Tyger River area.
Tyger River Area: South Carolina’s Complicated Borders
The western portion of South Carolina has a complicated history with very messy borders, making it a nightmare to find family records. For instance, between 1769-1779, Tryon County, North Carolina and the Ninety-Six District in South Carolina overlap. Some residents in this area were issued land from the State of North Carolina while others were issued land from the state of South Carolina.
The Vice Family
I’ve looked for families with similar surnames to VESS in South Carolina a zillion times, but apparently, I overlooked the VICE family.
On the 1810 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I found a John Vice next to Nancy Poole. Nancy Poole reminds me of Nancy Pool, sister of Mary Ann Pool, who married Henry Pettit Sr (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess).
So, I searched the name “John Vice” in the South Carolina Digital Archives. One record of interest is a land record dated 1824 for Benjamin Nicholls on Thomsons Branch along the Tyger River. It includes familiar families such as Duncan, Moore, Nicholls, Pettit, and Willis.
Clearly intrigued, I began to research further…
Many early families are well documented by family historians and generally, with a few odd-ball keywords, a good chunk of their history can be found via Google. I was fortunate to find information pertaining to the VICE family on a Turley Family website.
Who Is John Vice
Land records show that the Vice family has been in the Tyger River community as early as 1782 and numerous sources say some members of the Vice family moved to Benton (now Calhoun) county, Alabama.
Research tells us that John Vice was born in Orange County, Virginia about 1755 and died in Spartanburg County, South Carolina in 1833. He is the son of Nathaniel Camp Vice (1730-1802) of Frederick County, Virginia.
Nathaniel Camp Vice is supposedly the son of Robert or John VESSEY of Frederick County, Virginia; however, the origins of VESSEY are not clear. Nathaniel Camp Vice migrated south and settled in Campbell County, Kentucky with many of his descendants rooting in Bath County, Kentucky.
Nathaniel’s son, John Vice (some note his name as John William Vice), married Frances Roebuck in 1773 in Chatham County, North Carolina, before settling in Spartanburg County, South Carolina. According to the Turley Family website, they had 10 children:
John Roebuck Vise abt. 1774
Nathaniel Vise abt. 1774 and married Dorcas MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Rhoda Vise abt. 1776 and married Peter LAWRENCE.
Levi Vise abt. 1778
George Vise abt. 1780 and married Elizabeth WALKER.
Reuben Vise 1782
Eliphous Hosea “Eli” Vise abt. 1785 and married Rebecca MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Elizabeth Vise 1787 in Spartanburg , SC and married Thomas WRIGHT.
Azariah “Zery” Vise abt. 1790
Jeremiah “Jere” Vise about 1790
Abner Vise about 1792 and married Lucinda PREWITT.
Jemima Vise about 1792
A Tyger River Baptist Church Connection
The Turley family website states: “John Vise and Frances Roebuck Vise were members of the Tyger River Baptist Church, also called Friendship Church. On the membership roll for 1801-1803…”
This is an incredible find, for that the Tyger River Baptist Church was part of the same church association as Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. We also know that the Pettit family were also members of the Tyger River Baptist Church.
According to history.ky.gov, the location of the Tyger River Baptist Church is unknown however is said to have been located in the northern portion of Greenville County, close to the North Carolina border. This would ideally put the church very close to the Glassy Mountain community and the communities along the Pacelot River (North and South Carolina border in modern day Polk County) where we find many early families from Tryon County (like the Logan family).
I bet there are a lot of interesting families listed as members on the Tyger River Baptist Church Membership Rolls; unfortunately, these records do not appear to be available online nor are they physically available near me.
Census Records: Spartanburg County, South Carolina
On the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families: 1. Boston Best 2. Henry Pattit (Pettit) 3. Joshua Pattit (Pettit) 4. John Wice (Vice)
A few pages over, you will find the following families: 1. Abraham Belue (Bellew) 2. Joshua Gosnell
*The Bise families on the 1790 census might actually be part of the Vise family.
On the 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families interestingly close together: Nat Vice (Nathaniel Vice, John Vice son) John Willis Richard Willis (find him on land records with Vice family)
DNA Connections
Autosomal DNA Results For me, many of the names on the VICE family tree frequently show up in my DNA relatives list, especially via the Turley, McPherson, and White families.
Even more interestingly, I have a long list of distant DNA relatives with family trees showing them as descendants of the VICE family and not just through one VICE family line, but numerous VICE family lines. Most are via John and Nathaniel Vice (sons of John and France Roebuck Vice of South Carolina) and others are from several different descending lines (sons and daughters) from Nathaniel Camp Vice in Kentucky. And, to make it even more interesting, they share DNA relatives with DNA relatives who are descendants on the Willis Vess line.
Pettit – Vice Connection The granddaughter of John Vice married Benjamin Pettit who is related to Henry Pettit Sr. (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess) through Joshua Pettit.
John Vice and Henry Pettit have a common neighbor: Andrew Thomson. *Correction: Andrew Thomson maybe the surveyor. 1. 1784 land record: Pacelot River / Ninety-six District Henry Pettit, William Pool, and Andrew Thomson 2. 1786 land record: Tyger River / Ninety-six District John Vise, Andrew Thomson, John Oshields, Joel Hembree, David Grimes, John Butler *Pettit and Hembree families are related.
The Next Chapter: Vice Family
I am really excited about discovering the Vice family! Not only do they have a similar surname to VESS, but they are also in the right place at the right time, surrounded by many familiar families that connect with Peter, Willis, and Nathan!
Also, because the Vice family is supposedly from Frederick County, Virginia, there is still a chance for a possible connection with the Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia! So, I am extremely excited!! This could be our family’s missing link OR I am embarking upon another goose-chase!
While investigating Willis Vess, I may have found my way back to the Patrick County, VA Vess/Vest family!
My game plan to try to uncover the origins of the Alabama Vess family include looking at maps, neighbors, spouses, genealogy records (census, land, probate, etc), and the history of Alabama.
Investigating Land Records
Franklin County, Alabama was first established in 1818, before Alabama became a state (December 14, 1819). Records of early settlers of northern portions of Alabama may be found in the Mississippi Territory records. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any records of interest.
The earliest record I’ve found on Willis Vess is an 1830 census record for Franklin County, Alabama. However, he is listed as being between the ages of 30-40, living with two females between the ages of 15-30. This does not appear to match the timeline reported on family trees. Also, he is 10 years younger in the 1840 census (listed as being between the ages of 20-30). Census records are notorious for their mistakes.
Interestingly, on the 1830 census record, I do recognize two familiar family names next to Willis Vess: SUGG and THARP.
Willis Vess lived near both of them and the Sugg family has records as early as 1819. In fact, despite the 1820 Alabama census record being supposedly incomplete, it does contain some families from the Foxtrap area [THARP, SUGG, MATLOCK, THOMPSON, and DEBOIS].
Littleberry Matlock is shown on the Alabama Genweb plat map, living next to Willis Vess. Further research reveals that he married Phoebe Tharp whose father is Robert Tharp (1820 censusabove) and supposedly (not confirmed yet) her mother is a Thompson from Rutherford County, North Carolina. Interesting!
After 1830, we believe Willis Vess married Talitha Whitlock; unfortunately, I have not been able to find a marriage record. However, we do know a lot about the Whitlock family due to extensive research by Anna Popejoy and published works by the Whitlock Newsletter via Google. The Whitlock family arrived in Alabama in 1820 and lived in an area referred to as Saints cross (which is near Foxtrap). I figure this may be how Willis Vess and Talitha Whitlock met each other.
The oldest children of Willis and Talitha Vess married into the Willis family, which may suggest the Vess and Willis families were close (they were close neighbors shown on the map below) and it is believed that the Willis family may have connections with the parents of Willis Vess (no evidence yet).
I do not know when the Willis family arrived in Franklin Alabama, however, both John Willis and Willis Vess appear on the 1830 census record (several pages apart).
Looking at the President’s name on their undated land records for Franklin County, Alabama, it appears that John Willis purchased land near the Foxtrap area before Willis Vess. John Willis’ record [No. 5972] was signed by Andrew Jackson who was President between 1829-1837 and Willis Vess’ record [No. 8737] was signed by Martin Van Buren who was President between 1837-1841.
The map below (looking at surrounding families) seem to have been something that was put together sometime after the 1850’s. The earliest known neighbor near Willis Vess is James Dubois [No. 8705, also issued in 1837] who is seen on the 1820 census record (above). The land record for John Willis signed by Present Andrew Jackson is not dated, but was likely issued between 1829-1837 and land records No. 19711 and 19712 was signed between 1857-1861 when James Buchanan was President. Unfortunately, nothing seems to reveal any clues about the Vess family prior to 1830.
Willis Vess appears to have owned several properties in the Foxtrap area.
I found 3 land records for Willis Vess: No. 8737 August 5, 1837 No. 20457 & 20252 April 2, 1857*No. 20451 & 20452 on map (above) No. 25798 March 1, 1858 (William Vess as heir) *No. 25797 on map (above)
Who is William Vess? None of the family trees I have come across for Willis Vess have a William Vess on them, so I am not entirely sure who he is; however, it certainly makes my next discovery extremely intriguing…
1846 Tennessee Record: Peter, Willis, William Vess/ Vest
There is one Willis Vess record that intrigues me the most and it is a land record for White County, Tennessee (1846) on Caney Fork.
Willis Vess of White County, Tennessee, appears to have 2 land records for a property on Caney Fork: No. 2012 dated 1831 No. 9156 (addition to No. 2012) dated 1849
The property interestingly joins Daniel Dotson (Dodson).
Looking at census records, I do not see a Willis Vess; however, there is an 1820 and 1830 census record for Peter Vest, whose neighbor is Daniel Dotson (Dodson).
In addition, there is also a William Vess. He also purchases land in 1831 No. 2071, whose property takes over land once owned by John Medley (see 1820 censusabove). William Dodson and Sam Moore are witnesses listed on the record. William Vess can be found on the 1830 census record. Is this William Vess, the William Vess who is “heir” to the Willis Vess of Alabama’s 1858 land record in Franklin County, Alabama??
And, furthermore, is this Peter Vest, the same Peter Vest listed on the Patrick Co. Deeds (1791-1941 Indexes, grantor pg. 77 on FHL Film 33,333) with wife “Margaret,” who appears to have land next to the Dodson family on North Fork in Patrick County, Virginia? A 1793 transaction which was witnessed by George Dodson Sr., George Dodson Junior, Benjamin Fletcher, and Thomas Dodson.
Perhaps, it is Peter and William Vess of Patrick County, Virginia (Deed Records) on North Fork with William Willis??
Is there an actual connection or is this just coincidence?
Conclusions
Wow!
A Franklin County, Alabama land record for Willis Vess and “heir” William Vess. A Willis and William Vess in White County, Tennessee, with a Peter Vest. All near a Dodson family. And… interestingly, there is a Peter Vess and William Vess in Patrick County, Virginia, not only living next to a Dodson family, but ALSO a Willis family.
I don’t have enough documented evidence to make any solid connections, but I am absolutely intrigued! Tennessee is a mixing pot of Vest, Voss, Vaulx, and Vess families! Hopefully, with more research, we can determine which family the Vess/Vest family of White County, Tennessee belongs to!
I am so thrilled to have finally reached a new chapter in Vess Genealogy!
When I started this blog last Fall (August 2020), it was simply just a place to organize digital sources and share my genealogy experiences researching the Vess name. I gave it 2 months!
Remarkably, Vess Genealogy kept on going! I never would have ever imagined I would get to work with so many different people interested in the VESS name nor get an opportunity to meet so many different VESS families! This has been such an amazing genealogy adventure!
A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone helping me unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!
If New To Vess Genealogy, Here’s What You Missed!
For generations, three different VESS lines (maybe more) haven’t been able find their ancestors prior to 1820. A frustrating endeavor leaving many of us to just give up.
However, since last Fall, we achieved the following:
1. We learned more about Peter Vess and his family. 2. We learned a lot about Andrew Logan Vess and his family. 3. We likely uncovered Nathan’s origins in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. 4. We discovered that Peter and Willis Vess are closely related and that our family is closely related to the Travers family! 5. We explored families in Knob’s Creek from Peter’s 1820 census record. 6. We discovered “Vess” records in Virginia connected to an unknown Vest/Vess family! 8. We confirmed (via DNA) that the VESS family is not related to the BASS, BEST, WEST, or VEST families; eliminating them as possible family connections.
Brief Recap On Vess Genealogy
We now know that Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess are related; however, we have not yet determined how they are related to each other.
Peter and Willis were born in North Carolina and Nathan was born in South Carolina. Peter first appears on record in Rutherford County, North Carolina in 1820 on Knobs Creek with the Toney, Pettit, and Mooney families (all members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church).
Nathan’s first appearance on record is also in Rutherford County, North Carolina, but in 1830 with his in-laws, the Bellew family. The Bellew and Gosnell families are related and are prominent families in Glassy Mountain, Greenville County, South Carolina (aka Dark Corners). Also, Peter’s grandson, David Andrew Vess married Magnolia “Maggie” Gosnell, who is related to Nathan’s wife, Clarinda Bellew.
Willis first appears on record in Franklin County, Alabama in 1830. According to Anna Popejoy, long time researcher of the Vess and Whitlock families, states that the father of Willis Vess (John Vess) had been living in Foxtrap since 1819. Y-DNA analysis, via familytreedna.com, confirms Willis Vess and Peter Vess (Andrew Logan Vess) are definitely part of the same VESS family.
Familytreedna.com (FTDNA) also shows that the VESS and TRAVERS family are closely related; however, we do not know how they are related. There are several reasons as to why FTDNA may group two different surnames closely together; either we are extremely close cousins, one family that split apart during a time before surnames, or a male Travers ancestor took on the Vess name (orvice versa).To unravel this mystery, it would be extremely helpful to have more male Vess descendants participate in Y-DNA Testing.
The Travers family is from Lancashire, England and they have traced their family to Dorchester, Maryland. Whether there is a connection between the Vess and Travers family in Colonial America has yet to be discovered (the families may have split long before they arrived in America).
With the help of Y-DNA and documented family histories, we’ve been able to eliminate the BASS, BEST, WEST, and VEST families as potential ancestors for the Vess family.
The BASS family has a rich Native American background. The BEST family (original surname BOSCH) can trace their family back to their arrival in the 1740’s with the Ecker family (in-laws) from Germany. The WEST family has been ruled out by their extensive West Family DNA Project. And the VEST family, descendants of John Daniel Vest belong to an entirely different Haplogroup than our VESS family. To my knowledge, there is no available DNA information on the VASS/VOSS/ VAULX families.
We have recently discovered a VEST/VESS family in Patrick County, Virginia who may be related to the VEST/VESS family in Rockbridge, Virginia. We have yet to find any records suggesting that they may belong to the VEST family (John Daniel Vest), which is extremely encouraging for our VESS family, andtherefore a new chapter begins!
I am in the process of investigating the Life of Willis Vess and hopefully, with any luck, we can uncover some of Anna Popejoy’s research to help us! I plan to explore more families in and surrounding Patrick County, Virginia – including Surry and Stokes County, North Carolina. All in addition to finding out more about the VOSS/VASS/ VAULX families who seem to live very close to the TRAVERS family in both Dorchester, Maryland and the abolished Albemarle County in North Carolina.
We so badly want to connect our VESS family to William Tunwell VESTof Stokes County, North Carolina; mostly, because it seems to be the only thing that makes the most sense!
While researching Willis Vess in Alabama, I took a slight detour back to the VEST family of Virginia, because I discovered a VEST family 2 counties east of Willis Vess taunting me with records as early as 1818. I had to figure out who they were.
Long story short, I searched for every early VEST record I could find in Virginia and started plotting them on a map. Then, with the help of Y-DNA information provided by a fellow researcher, I started the process of elimination. The final results surprisingly revealed another VEST / VESS family!
Why Does William Tunwell Vest Seem Like A Connection?
Despite having BEST, VOSS, and VASS families also in North Carolina to consider, I was hoping there was a connection with William Tunwell VEST; mostly, because he makes the most sense for the time, place, and names.
Peter Vess Peter Vess of Rutherford County, NC was born between 1791-1794 in North Carolina and most of his records are found under the “VEST” surname; except for the 1830 census (Voss) and his 1831 land record (Vess).
After his death sometime before 1844, the “VEST” surname continued with his wife Catherine and their sons, as shown in Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu. It wasn’t until 1849, when the “Vess” surname really stuck, in both census and church records. Therefore, it is easy to assume that Peter maybe connected to the VESTfamily.
We were even 100% confident that we had discovered his connection with the VEST family when we found a Surry County War of 1812-1814 record listing a “Peter VEST.” Not only is Surry County right next to Stokes County in North Carolina, but also the names of the other soldiers listed with Peter VEST seem to have connections with the grandchildren of William Tunwell VEST through his son Isham VEST. Because there doesn’t appear to be any VEST families in Surry County, the VEST family next door (in Stokes County) seems like a good fit.
A possible connection to William Tunwell VEST became even more enticing when records for Peter Vess suggested his father may have been named John Vess (1831 Rutherford Co. land grant record). According to the Last Will and Testament of William Tunwell VEST (1812), he just so happens to have a son named John VEST!
Willis Vess William Tunwell Vest also seems like a potential ancestor to Willis Vess.
Willis Vess was born in North Carolina (abt) 1810, supposedly to “John Vess and Maragaret Vaughn” who are said to have also been born in North Carolina. Because William Tunwell VEST had a son named John VEST, it appeared there could be a connection; however, John VEST married Eliza RAY (not Margaret Vaughn). Of course, John could have been married twice, but records show us that John VEST (despite who he was married to) appears to have been living in North Carolina (or Indiana-whichever source you pick) during the time that the father of Willis Vess was living in Alabama; therefore they must not be the same person.
Nathan Vess Interestingly, there haven’t been any plausible ideas between William Tunwell Vest and Nathan Vess. Because Nathan was born in South Carolina, one could possibly conclude he is Peter’s cousin rather than his brother. So, Nathan’s lack of connection to the VEST family in Stokes County, NC never really seemed like such a big deal.
The VEST & VESS Families Are Not Related
According to information from FamilytreeDNA.com, the VEST and VESS families are not related! In fact, they don’t even share the same Haplogroup!
The descendants of John Daniel VEST (VEST family of Virginia) belong to Haplogroup-I, whereas the descendants of Willis Vess and Andrew Logan Vess (our VESS family) belong to Haplogroup- R (R1a). That’s quite a distance from each other on the Y-Haplogroup tree.
So, we can pretty much eliminate any VEST family related to John Daniel Vest as being possible ancestors, including William Tunwell VEST of Stokes County, North Carolina.
I was holding onto William Tunwell VEST for a long time, just in case; however, I eventually discovered that he is the son of John Daniel VEST.
In the Last Will and Testament of John Daniel Vest (1765) of Chesterfield County, Virginia, John names his wife “Ann Vest” (likely Charolette Ann Bakes) as well as his 7 children: “John Vest, Valentine Vest, Elizabeth Vest, James Vest, George Vest, Phillip Vest, and William Tunwell Vest.” [Transcribed by Sandra Lake Lassen March 1993 – Ancestry.com]
By the way, I discovered the VEST family near Willis Vess in Alabama are descendants of John Daniel Vest through George Washington Vest– so, no relation to Willis Vess.
Mapping VEST Families
Instead of trying to untangle the many different branches of the VEST family, I decided it would be better to us their records to plot them all on a map. During this process, I came to discover that a lot of VEST families do seem to be descendants of John Daniel Vest and Charolette Ann Bakes. The family appears to have originated from Chesterfield and Powhatan County, VA and then migrated westward into Bedford County, then down into Franklin and Floyd Counties, before conquering the rest of the United States.
After finishing my map, two VESS/VEST families who do not seem to have any connection with the John Daniel Vest family stood out!
The Map The counties [below] highlighted inredcontain VEST records. The counties marked with an X have records that strongly suggest a relationship with John Daniel Vest. And, the counties left, with no X, have records with both the VESS and VEST surname.
This map is not 100% accurate. It is very likely that there are areas and families I missed; especially, since documentation of these VESS-VEST families is scarce and require deep digging into Virginia archives. The purpose of this map is to see if we could identify any “separate” families, such as those using the VESS surname.
Exploring VESS/VEST Families
Rockbridge County and Patrick County, Virginia are the only two counties where I have found records with the VESS name and families whose records seem to use the VESS and VEST surname interchangeably, and interestingly, neither of them seem to have any records that suggest (at this time) they are connected to the John Daniel Vest family! So, who are they and do they have any connection to our VESS family?
VESS/VEST family of Rockbridge, Virginia
According to my ancestral DNA, I have distant DNA-relatives who are descendants of Addison Vess of Rockbridge County, Virginia through my VESS line. My project, of course, could be flawed as the connection could be distant, possibly connected between different families related to Addison Vess.
However, I used the same search method again for the VEST name and more DNA-relatives came up; all related to Vess families in Rockbridge, VA. I did not get any DNA-relatives descending from the John Daniel Vest family.
The Vest/Vess family living in Rockbridge are found near Colliers Creek and Kerrs Creek. Library of Congress Looking at this map [below], there are family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Hostetter, Ailstock, Noel, Morris, and Tolly, and Armstrong.
William, Peter, & Samuel VESS/VEST of Patrick County
As mentioned in a previous post, “What We Know So Far,” we recently discovered a Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia who we have no idea (like the Rockbridge family) as to whether they are related to the VESS or VEST family (perhaps neither).
I was provided a list of land deeds for Patrick County, Virginia (1791-1801) to compare to the residents in Tryon County, North Carolina (1769-1779) to see if there was any kind of connection. Unfortunately, I did not find anything significant, for that Tryon County records are much older than the Patrick County records and it just wouldn’t make sense that families would travel so far south just to end back up North. I guess they could have, but probably unlikely during a time when families were migrating out west and down south.
The records we find in Patrick County, Virginia include a William, Peter, and a Samuel Vess (VEST/VOSS) who lived on the border of Patrick County and Henry County (as shown on the mapbelow) in Bull Mountain, North Mayo River, and Koger Creek, just below Franklin County, Virginia.
These records also show family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Duncan, Dodson, Willis, Watson, Reynolds, Sharp, Hooker, and Randal.
HAIRSTON & PENN Families: A Little Local History While researching some of the families on this deed list, I discovered that the HAIRSTON and PENN families (both on the deed list) have a bit of history in the area.
George HAIRSTON built Beaver Creek Plantation which was a tobacco plantation and a very large slave-trading post in Martinsville, VA (east of Koger Creek in Henry Co.). He served under Col. Abraham PENN who was the original owner of the land that George Hairston built his plantation on (using a royal grant). The PENN family built “Poplar Grove” plantation in Patrick County, VA near Patrick Springs (west of North Mayo River). And both HAIRSTON and PENN families married into the STOVALL family- all connected.
There appears to be several plantations in the area, all of which utilized slaves and indentured servants. Indentured servants generally had a 7 year contract and in return for their service, their masters often granted them land. Looking at records on Patrick County, VA Genweb, we find deed records referred to an “Indenture,” where land was transferred to the “apprentice” after all debts and terms of their contract have been satisfied.
Jonathan William Vess of Texas: Koger Creek According to the deed list, William Vess/Vest is shown near a Herron/ Heron family and as previously known, marriage records show Elizabeth Herron having married Johnathan William Vess in 1791 in Patrick County, Virginia. Johnathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron traveled with Stephen F. Austin from Missouri to Texas (Republic of Texas) during the 1820’s. This William Vess/Vest on the Patrick County deed list may either be Jonathan himself or perhaps his father.
Peter Vess and William Vess/Voss: North Mayo River According to the deed list, west of Koger Creek are residents of the North Mayo River which includes Peter Vess, William Vess/Voss, Samuel Vess, William Willis, and William Sharp.
This Vess/Voss family is most interesting for that we see them with the Willis, Dodson, and Sharp families (family surnames that are also found in Franklin County, Alabama with Willis Vess).
To make things even more interesting, we found a 1785 marriage record for Peter Vess and Pugnance Vaughn in Henry County. (Henry County is next to Patrick County, and there was a time when both counties were one, called Patrick-Henry County)
What is interesting about this, is that according to Anna Popejoy, the parents of Willis Vess were John Vess and Margaret Vaughn. To this day, we do not know where she got this information; however, we are now wondering, if this is them.
Perhaps their full names were John Peter Vess and Pugnance Margaret Vaughn??? Also note, that the brother of Willis Vess is supposedly “John Peter Vess,” perhaps he was a John Peter Vess Jr.?
In addition, records also show land transactions between Peter Vess and Samuel Vess via John Duncan. At the bottom of this particular deed list (with Peter and Samuel), you will also find a Whitlock family.
Are These VESS/VEST Families Related
It is plausible that the Rockbridge VESS/VEST family and the Patrick County VESS/VEST families are related to each other, for that records of the Patrick County family (earliest record 1785) come before the records of the Rockbridge family (earliest record 1818); suggesting one of the Vess members may have migrated to Rockbridge, Virginia from Patrick County, Virginia.
It has also been observed that Samuel Vess of Patrick County, Virginia disappeared before Peter and William Vess; which makes us wonder if he is (or is related to) Samuel Harvey Vess of Rockbridge, Virginia (1830 records).
We do not know if they are genetically related to the our Vess family; however, genealogical records seem to support some kind of connection.
Full Recap
The Vest family of Virginia and our Vess family are not related (two separate Haplogroups).
There is no genetic relationship between our Vess family and William Tunwell Vest in Stokes County, North Carolina.
Maps reveal a separate VESS/VEST family residing in Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia. It is not yet know if these two VESS/VEST families are related, but it is plausible considering the record dates.
We have likely discovered the families of Jonathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron (of Republic of Texas) in Patrick County, Virginia on Koger Creek.
We have discovered that there is a Peter, Samuel, and William VESS/VOSS on the North Mayo River with a Willis, Sharp, and possibly a Whitlock family.
The area in which we find these families in Patrick County, has a history of plantations and records that suggest some of the land owners were once indentured servants.
Many family surnames found in both Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia are familiar names seen elsewhere in Vess family research; especially, regarding Peter and Willis Vess.
No definite conclusions can be made at this time; however, these new discoveries seem promising! It appears that a new chapter in Vess Genealogy has just begun!
If you are or know someone who is a male descendant with the VESS or VEST surname, please consider participating in Y-DNA testing through FamilytreeDNA.com to help us unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!
Again, a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who has shared their findings with me on the Vess name in effort to piece together VESS family history!
Vess Genealogy has been stuck at a massive roadblock for generations. In my opinion, I believe there was a name change.
Records do exist. Either we are missing the places they might be (due to county changes) or we are overlooking records, because the surname is indexed wrong due to illegible handwriting.
Our ancestors lived in an area during a time where county lines were constantly changing, which means there are probably some counties that we may never in a zillion years ever think to look for records.
The biggest reason I believe records do exist is because so many other early families of western North Carolina have a paper-trail.
Okay, it is not exactly the neatest of paper-trails for that when you get into early records (early 1800’s and back), surnames are really butchered (horribly misspelled) to the point that even if you squint and look at it sideways, it might (if you shout it from a distancewith a little echo) sound phonetically similar to the surname that it was meant to be. So, in most cases, it is the content that usually confirms the persons identity more so than the indexed surname linked to the record.
My point is, if a good portion of early families in the same area have records, there is a good chance the Vess family also has records. Unfortunately, there are too many different surname variants and counties to explore. If we want to move forward a little faster, perhaps genetic genealogy can help us.
Check out this cool video below – A North Carolina dialect that evolved independently due to isolation since the 1600’s. If that is anywhere close to what our ancestors used to talk like, no wonder names were horribly misspelled.
What Is Genetic Genealogy
It is my understanding, as I am 100% new to this, that genetic genealogy is a new approach to tackling difficult ancestors who do not want to be found.
Instead of digging through dusty old archives for records to make family connections, we can now make family connections with the help of DNA relatives. Unfortunately, the name of our stubborn ancestors are not embedded into our DNA, but DNA-relatives can point us in the direction, like a compass, to locate genealogy records that might help us identify a common ancestor.
Essentially, the idea is to use both methods (DNA and records) together to quickly and more accurately make new connections on the family tree.
Y-Chromosome DNA Testing is GOLD
Y-Chromosome DNA testing is gold, but without a lot of participants, it can also be lead.
Every male descendant carries a gene called a Y-Chromosome. Geneticist’s extract the DNA from the Y-Chromosome, analyze it and assign it to a Y-Chromosome Haplogroup (A-R).
A haplogroup consists of a group of people who share very similar DNA with one another suggesting a single common ancestor. An extremely ancient common ancestor.
The more people who participate in Y-DNA testing, the more these Haplogroups can be broken down into smaller groups called a subclade. Subclades are subgroups of Haplogroups. Assignment is largely based on single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP’s), which are specific mutations that correlate to specific paternal lines. Every time a mutation occurs over thousands of years, that genetic line branches off into a new subclade (or so that is my vague understanding of it).
As more DNA is collected and analyzed, the subclade may change; either resulting in grouping more people together into one subclade (moving from one existing subclade to another existing subclade) or having enough new information to create an entirely new subclade.
The VESS family is assigned to Haplogroup R. Haplogroup R has many different branches (subclades).
When members of the VESS family submitted their DNA, a new subclade was created where they were grouped together with the TRAVERS family (we are closely related), and then, when some members of the VESS family completed the BIG-Y Chromosome test (a more in-depth analysis), the VESS family was later assigned a new subclade although still grouped together with the TRAVERS family. This suggests a mutation.
It is interesting that our group has two different surnames and it kind of makes you wonder who came first: TRAVERS or VESS?
Did a male descendant of the TRAVERS family take the VESS surname, maybe from a step-parent, or was adopted by a VESS family or vice versa. There is also the possibility that our common ancestor could be from a time when surnames didn’t exist. OR we aren’t as closely related as we think and as more people begin to test, the VESS and TRAVERS family might drift apart into two different groups. The only thing I know for sure, is that it is a mystery we cannot solve today.
However, we did identify a new VESS line using Y-Chromosome testing: Willis Vess of Alabama.
The best thing about this DNA database, is that participants often note their oldest known ancestor which gives genealogists a specific location on a map to look for genealogy records. Although we know Andrew Logan Vess and Willis Vess are related, we have yet to determine how they are related to one another on the VESS family tree.
This is what I mean by Y-Chromosome DNA testing being gold but also lead. It has the potential to unravel many VESS mysteries, but without more participants, those mysteries will remain in the dark.
Male descendants carrying the VESS surname or one similar to it (VASS, VOSE, VOSS, VEST, VAUX, etc) are greatly encouraged to participate in Y-DNA testing through Familytreedna.com as there might be a genetic connection.
Autosomal DNA Testing
While Y-Chromosome DNA testing is a more direct route to identifying our paternal ancestors, autosomal DNA testing is more or less like taking the scenic route.
Y-Chromosome DNA tests provide you a much bigger genealogical timeline of just one paternal line that dates back to ancient times, whereas ancestral DNA tests are autosomal, which means they only go back 6-8 generations and is saturated by DNA-relatives on both sides of the family (paternal and maternal lines).
For me, my DNA-relatives related to the VESS line would mainly consist of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess (my third great-grandfather-6th gen). It would just barely (if at all) pick up DNA-relatives descending from Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess or even their parents. It greatly depends on how many of their descendants have submitted an ancestral DNA test and just how far they descend down the Vess-family line.
With an 8-generation family tree, a DNA test by my mom, and access to DNA information provided by a close family member who is a generation older than me, I have been able to identify DNA-relatives specifically connected to the VESS family line via a lengthy tedious process of elimination.
Fortunately, my mom’s DNA test does half the work for me by identifying DNA-relatives on her side of the family. Then, I look at shared DNA relatives with the family member who is a generation older than me to further identify DNA-relatives that are most likely VESS-related. Because this family member is a generation older than me, their DNA test would detect more DNA-relatives, those who are too distant to be detected by my DNA test.
Any DNA-relative with less than a cM count of 8, do not make it onto the DNA-relatives list (it’s too distant), even though there is a relation on the family tree. In theory, it would probably be best to have our grandparents do an ancestral autosomal DNA test. cM (centimorgan)= the amount of shared DNA.
My Search Method
I started by making a list of DNA-relatives who carry the VESS name. Next, I made a list of DNA-relatives with the VESS name who also have a public VESS family tree. Lastly, I made a list of DNA-relatives who do not carry the VESS name, but have a public family tree showing they descend (at one point) from a VESS family member.
For each DNA-relative listed, I noted their oldest known ancestor (some I had to research a bit) and I also had to check their shared-relatives list to make sure they didn’t share DNA with my mom (which was the most time consuming part).
My Discoveries
At a glance, autosomal ancestral DNA tests tell us nothing; except, we have a lot of cousins. But after an extensive process of elimination, then entering the information into a spreadsheet, and finally organizing the information from closest DNA-relatives to most distant DNA-relatives does it actually start to get interesting.
1) As expected, majority of our shared DNA-relatives are descendants of Andrew Logan Vess.
2) As you scroll down towards more distant DNA-relatives, we start to see connections with Willis Vess. Based on this, we can probably confidently say that Willis and Peter Vess are very closely related.
3) Willis Vess seems closer to us than Nathan Vess; which may suggest Nathan’s line has either ended or not many of his descendants have done an ancestral DNA test.
4) Also as expected, the autosomal DNA tests just barely detect DNA-relatives who are descendants of Josiah, Alfred, and Alexander Vess (brothers of Andrew Logan Vess).
5) Interestingly, there are a few DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is one I do not recognize:
–Susan Ann Elizabeth VESS (b. 1856 Rutherford Co. NC) and Columbus MCGINNIS *connected to Ledbetter tree and father is noted as Thomas William VEST of Tennessee
–Elizabeth Louise VESS (b. abt 1845 North Carolina) and William LANNING (marriage Henderson, NC)
–Everline VESS and James STEWART (marriage Colbert, Alabama)
–James Marvin VESS (b. 1853 South Carolina) and Sallie Octavia SPRUELL
**One of the Elizabeth’s might be the daughter of Peter Vess
6) But even more interesting are DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is Addison Vess/Vest.
You would think this is a solid connection to the VEST family of Virginia, but if you look at the family trees for Addison VESS/VEST, they are not well documented and there is no consistency with Addison’s children or parents, which is a RED FLAG in genealogy.
Final Conclusions
I am not an expert, so please keep in mind my search method could be flawed and thus the information within this post could be highly inaccurate.
We still do not have enough information to find new ancestors, but we do have enough genetic evidence to start digging deeper into the life of Willis Vess without wondering whether or not we are wasting our time. Yes, Y-Chromosome testing confirmed he is related to Peter Vess, but autosomal DNA testing suggests the relation is much closer than we think.
Also, we might want to start to investigate Addison VESS/VEST for that his name appeared quite consistently in the chart below. The reason he showed up, is because his descendants some how took on the VESS name rather than keeping the VEST name like other VEST families; in which I think is intriguing. Why did this particular VEST line evolve into a VESS line?
Prior to 1820, the “Vess” name seems scarce. This is either because the Vess family just recently arrived to America or that there was a name change. Today’s research strongly suggests a name change.
When a surname is misspelled, we often tend to overlook important records. My genealogy game plan to bring these records to light is to research the neighbors of Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess and investigate any nearby families with a similar surname. So far, I have a couple of excellent contenders with the VEST, VOSS, BEST, and BASS families. Unfortunately, I have yet to find any documents to confirm a direct connection with any of them.
With a handful of different families with similar surnames already piled high on my research plate, I had no intention on investigating anymore families; however, I would be foolish to disregard a family whose family story seems quite similar to our own family story…
The VASS Family: Sounds Oddly Familiar
I have spent years reaching out to different families with similar surnames in hopes one would have a similar family story to ours, but nothing ever came close until now…
I stumbled upon the VASS family with a document that wasn’t even about the VASS family itself, but more so about a man named Pendleton in Virginia whose daughter married a Vass. I can’t even tell you why I was looking at Pendleton to begin with, which happens a lot.
In genealogy, one document often leads to another document, then to another and another to the point you’re not exactly sure who it is that you were looking for in the first place! Honestly, I am pretty sure this all started with looking at map.
As I was saying, I stumbled upon a document that led me to more documents about the VASS family in Virginia. After reviewing my notes, I was shocked by how similar their family story is to ours…
1) Instead of Ireland, their “long time” family story has always been about “3 brothers from Germany.” 2) Their name used to be pronounced as “Voss” (just like us). 3) Some say they are German in origin and others say Scotland. (just like us, but instead of Scotland, it is Ireland).
There are a couple of documents pertaining to the VASS family, some of which strongly suggest they are Scottish, as part of the ROSS-Clan, with surname variants of Vaux, Vaus, and Wass. The Wass version is what they believe mistakes them for German. One source states the original name was DE-VALLIBUS; in my opinion, sounds French.
The VASS family was supposedly a prominent family in Virginia via John Vass and Rachel Pendleton. Their descendants eventually went down into North Carolina with the variant surname VOSS. They settled in parts of Casewell and Pasquotank Counties. [Note: There is Greenbury Voss/Vess in Casewell County]
Furthermore, there is a Vincent Vass (b. 1790) who married Mary Cosner living in Stokes County, North Carolina during the early 1800’s. This is interesting, because it means that William Tunwell VEST was not the only family in the area at the time with a similar surname to “VESS.” Also, we have a Peter Vest on a War of 1812 Surry County, NC record that we have not been able to connect to either the VESS or VEST family.
The VASS family is supposedly connected to the North Carolina VOSS family, which got me thinking: Is Frederick “Bass” of Anson County, NC, neighbors with the Bellew family, related to this VASS/VOSS mix?
The document linking the VASS/VOSS family (John Vass & Rachel Pendleton) to Vincent Vass cuts off and does not mention how they are related; unfortunately, I have not been able to find the original publication to read onto the next page.
I have just barely scratched the surface of the VASS family. As I mentioned before, this search initially began with looking at maps, in which I think has something to do with the names Whitlock, Vaughn, & Thompson scribbled on a piece of paper next to the name Pendleton. Of course, I didn’t jot down their connection!
Glasgow, Scotland
All this mention of Scotland, reminded me of Glasgow, Scotland. See, my DNA results show ancestors having once living in Glasgow, Scotland. This intrigues me, because in the 1820-1830’s, we see records for a “Vess” family arriving to America from Glasgow. I do not know if there is a connection yet, but it is interesting nonetheless.
The VOSE Family: Lancashire, England
As if the pile of families with similar surnames wasn’t big enough, the VASS family led me to another:
There is one source that made a brief connection between the VASS and VOSE family, in which is not well understood. In my opinion, it seems as if they were connected together, because both families share the surname variant of VAUX. However, before tossing this family aside into the “maybe” pile, one particular thing caught my eye: The VOSE family is from Lancashire, England.
This brings me to the TRAVERS family of Lancashire, England. It is my understanding that Y-DNA data currently suggests that the VESS and TRAVERS families are related and it is believed that the two families split “prior to mid-1650.”
Interestingly, I came across a 1784 marriage record for a Mary TRAVERS and an Edward VOCE (VOSE) in Lancashire, England, but no family tree to determine further connections (if any).
The VOSE family is originally from Normandy. Interestingly, (in my opinion) the name DE-VALLIBUS that is supposedly associated with the VASS family, seems more fitting for this VOSE family.
In the early 1600’s, Robert and Sarah Vose migrated to America. Further research shows that the VOSE family prominently living in Massachusetts with no mention of any family migrating South. So with that, I tucked the VOSE family away with the WEST family- ruling them out completely.
Henry Vose of Virginia
Interestingly, buried within a plethora of documentation about the VOSE family in Massachusetts, there is this tiny bit that reads: “Henry Vose, who arrived in Virginia in 1653.”houseofnames.com
Now, THAT is much closer to the Carolina’s! I decided to type his info into Ancestry.com where I came across this piece of genealogy gold [right]!
He arrived in North Hampton, Virginia in 1653, sponsored by Anti. Hoskins. And guess what other name is listed with his: William Willis!
This is interesting, because we think the Willis Vess family in Alabama (from North Carolina) might have a connection with a Willis family.
Of course, this doesn’t confirm anything.
No Solid Connections Yet
Although I am disappointed that no new connections have been made, this new information is encouraging.
This new information isn’t pointing me into a new direction (which is exciting), but more so back to where I’ve already been; meaning, there is a good chance I was on the right track, but missed something! I just have to figure out what.
So far, I have recognized that research seems to be on opposite ends of our family history timeline and we are just needing to fill in a 140+/- year gap. We can trace our lineage to Peter, Nathan, and Willis and we know (via DNA) that at some point they were connected to the Travers family in England. So, roughly between 1650 – 1791 is missing.
Vess Genealogy 