South Carolina Vess Research

John “Vess” Families In South Carolina

/ J. V. / Leave a comment

John and Alfred Vess, sons of Peter and Catherine Vess, both left the state of North Carolina after 1850. I am curious if they both went to South Carolina…

We do not know exactly where John Vess went to (other than he left the state of North Carolina), but Alfred Webb Vess settled in Georgia, whose in-laws came from Abbeville County, South Carolina where records during the same time period show several other “Vess” families. 

Did John and Alfred have Vess family in South Carolina?

James Marvin Vess:
Saluda, Abbeville County, South Carolina

In the 1850 South Carolina census, we find a John Vess (b. 1825 SC), with wife, Drucilla Turner, and son James Marion Vess in Saulda, Abbeville County, South Carolina. Records from the South Carolina Archives and History Digital Collections for “John Vess” reveal they are living in the Greenwood community (which will become its own county in 1897). 

This John Vess disappears after 1850 too. 

Interestingly, according to DNA research by Vincent Vess, descendants of James Marion Vess share DNA matches with both Vess and Crook cousins, which strongly suggests a connection to Peter and Catherine Vess from Rutherford County, North Carolina via possibly their son John Vess. 

In the 1850 Rutherford County, North Carolina census, we do find John Vess listed with his wife Elizabeth Taylor (and kids), living with Catherine and his younger siblings. Vincent points out that this is dated September 17th, 1850, whereas the 1850 Abbeville County, South Carolina census with John Vess and Drucilla Turner (Vess) is dated November 25th 1850; two months apart. Could they be the same person?

This John Vess (if not our John Vess) in South Carolina could also be a very close relative of Peter Vess (brother, father, half-brother, etc) who may also descend from a CROOK. Or, it may be a false lead, with DNA matches descending somewhere else on the CROOK branch (non-Vess related). 

BUT, Vincent also points out, that another VESS-CROOK lineage is not implausible, for that we have documentation of an older “John Vess” in Rutherford County, North Carolina, as a “John Vess” was a witness to a land record for Peter Vess in 1831. 

Peter’s son, John, was only 11 years old at the time, and not legally old enough to sign legal documents yet. I was told by a historian from the North Carolina Genealogical Society that the legal age would have been 16.

Even more interesting, is that Greenwood County is near Newberry County (South Carolina) where Catherine’s paternal grandfather, Andrew Crook may have come from (prior to obtaining land in Buncombe Co in 1804)… Could there be a connection?



Could “John Vess” in Abbeville County, South Carolina, be our “John Vess” from Rutherford County, North Carolina or is it possibly another lost “Vess-Crook” lineage.

Brothers John & William Vess:
Saluda Regiment, Abbeville County, South Carolina

In the 1850 census for Saluda “Regiment,” Abbeville County, South Carolina (separate census from the above Saluda, Abbeville County, SC census), there are two brothers (maybe cousins) living with a Brooks family: John and William “Vess.” 

Abbeville County was divided into 2 regiments, Savanah River Regiment (where we find Alfred’s in-laws) and Saluda Regiment (where we have John & William Vess). I have yet to determine the difference between Saluda Regiment census and just Saluda census records, as they are distinctly different (it does not include the John Vess & Turner family). 

What is intriguing about John and William Vess (if accurate) is that it is noted on census they were born in North Carolina, ruling out Peter and Nathaniel’s line. They were born about 1824 and 1826, ruling out Pryor, William, and Peter’s line from Wilkes county, who were in White County, TN by 1820. 

This leaves Absalom Vess and the briefly mentioned Johnathan Vess in Wilkes County, North Carolina.  Johnathan was only mentioned a couple of times between 1803-1805, with no indication as to where he went next; however, Absalom is a possible candidate as he remained in North Carolina with records between 1803-1820. His wife Hannah appears to have survived him. Census records (although mostly girls) did reveal they had at least 2 sons (but only 1 in the age range above). 

There is also the suspected older John Vess in Rutherford County, North Carolina (witness to Peter’s land) to also consider…

John Vess Age 51
Greenville, South Carolina

According to Civil War records, there is a “John Vess” (records also “Vest”) who enlisted from Greenville, South Carolina. Other than the 1830 census for Polly “Vess,” there are no “Vess” families on census or any other available records in Greenville, SC.  

Civil War records from Fold3.com, reveal correspondences asking to be dismissed from the military due to his age. He claimed to be 51 years of age (1864) with an estimated birthdate of 1813; unfortunately, he had no proof of his age. 

According to the records, John Vess was interviewed by a man, who declared in a written statement, that he believes (based on the interview) that John Vess is of 50 years old of age.

Unfortunately, none of these records indicated where John Vess was born.

What Are We Looking At?

Who are these “Vess” families? Are they Haplogroup R1a2, like us, or are they another family (unrelated to us) whose name eventually evolved into Vess?


*Note: Descendants of Nathaniel Vess have yet to complete a Y-DNA test or upload their Autosomal DNA results to the Vess Family DNA Project. At this time, we do not know if the Nathaniel Vess line is related to the Peter & Willis Vess family (Halpogroup R1a2).


John Vess from Greenville, South Carolina intrigues me, because his Civil War records are under the “Vess” and “Vest” name, which strongly suggests he may be a “Vess” relative for Peter and Willis Vess. Records alternating between the “Vest” and “Vess” name are often associated with the VESS family. 

Having shared DNA matches with the Vess/Turner family (Vess & Crook matches) in Abbeville County is fascinating; especially, since Greenwood is near Newberry County, where the Crook(s) family use to resided prior to 1800. 

And, what about the brothers/cousins also in Abbeville County, whose census states they were born in North Carolina? If true, do they come from Wilkes County, North Carolina?

The most fascinating thing to me, is that there is an off and on presence of “Vess” families in South Carolina between 1794 (Nathaniel’s birth) to 1870 whose origins and lineages are unknown! 

• 1794 Nathaniel Vess is believed to have been born in South Carolina.
• 1810 John “Beas” (not sure if Vess) appear on census (Spartanburg Co.) near families later associated with Nathaniel and Peter Vess.
• 1830 Polly Vess in Greenville County in the same census as the Plummley family seen near Nathaniel Vess in Rutherford Co. NC and Pryor Vest in White County, TN.
• 1850 John Vess (b. SC) / Drucilla Turner Saluda, Abbeville Co. shared DNA matches with VESS & CROOK descendants.
• 1850 John & William Vess Saluda Regiment, Abbeville Co., supposedly born in North Carolina.
• 1860 John Vess (age 51) from Greenville, Co. 

What is the connection (if any)? Very intriguing!











 












More Pieces To The Mysterious John VESS of South Carolina

/ J. V.

In August of 2020, I discovered two John Vess families in South Carolina whose origins are a mystery.

The first is an 1850 census record for John and William E. Vess of Saluda Regiment, Abbeville, South Carolina. Both of them are in their 20’s, they are listed as carpenters, and they claim to be born in North Carolina.

The second is an 1850 census record for John Vess and Drucilla Vess of Saluda, Abbeville, South Carolina. John is 25 and he is listed as a farmer. 1860 census, suggests John Vess died, for that it is just Drucilla Turner and James Vest (assuming their son).

Today, I came across Civil War records for John Vess and William VESTZ (pretty sure it’s William Vess). The first record, John Vess states he enlisted in Greenville, South Carolina and his occupation is a carpenter. These two records, might be referring to John and William Vess from the 1850 census.
According to these records, John Vess was hospitalized and William was captured. I am not sure if they survived the war though.

In between John Vess and William Vestz, is a Civil War record for JOHN VEST. He too was enlisted in Greenville, South Carolina. What makes his record so interesting, is that he was forced to write a letter asking to be discharged from the military due to his age. The discharge was granted, which means this John Vest was born sometime before 1815.

Fold3: Civil War Record and Letter Certifying His Age

I found an 1880 census record for a John Vest in Greenville, South Carolina with a birth year that would put him at the approx. same age as John Vest in the Civil War record above. This John Vest (1880 census) was born about 1815 in South Carolina and states both his parents were born in South Carolina.

This is very intriguing, because there are no early records of a VEST or VESS family in South Carolina. All we know is that we have records that strongly suggest that Nathaniel Vess was born in South Carolina in 1794 with a connection to Greenville, South Carolina via Clarinda Bellew who also states both his parents were born in South Carolina (below). Could Nathan Vess and John Vest be related???







John BESS: A Crazy Goose Chase Or A Great New Lead!

/ J. V. / 1 Comment

I don’t like wild goose chases, but this one is pretty interesting and has really caught my attention.

Interesting Notes On Peter’s 1840 Census

Looking at Peter’s 1840 census record, he appears to be near the Pettit, Mooney, and Toney families again. What happened to Cedar Creek?

The most fascinating thing about Peter’s 1840 census is that everyone listed (below) has, at one time or another, been associated with Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. This blew my mind, but I don’t know if it means anything.

The Hambrick Family

In a previous post, Vince sent me a link about the Sparks family living in Rutherford County, North Carolina via Lewis Morgan Sparks. Lewis Morgan Sparks married Sarah Bridges, daughter of Samuel Bridges and Mary Hamrick.

Peter is also shown on the 1820 census with the Hambrick and Bridges family (below). According to The Hambricks Generations, the Blantons, Greens, Bridges, Champions, Washburns, Bowens, and McSwains came to America with the Hamrick / Hambrick family (pg.13). This publication also states the Bridges and Logan families were close. This is very interesting, because we find Peter Vess smack dab in the middle of all those inter-related families. For example, James Young is married to a Blanton. McSwine (McSwain) is listed on the 1820 census, with Logan on the next page with more Bridges. Even more interesting, is that these families also have connections with Bill’s Creek Baptist Church.

Henry Pettit 1810 Census: John BEAS

Since Peter is on census records listed closely with the Pettit family and we know Henry Pettit is from Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I decided to take another look at his 1810 census record.

On the list with Henry Pettit is John BEAS.
Now, at first, I thought maybe this name was suppose to be “BIAS” and BIAS is often associated with BYERS (because of the sounds of I and E). However, there is a BYERS listed here, so the census taker clearly knew how to spell BYERS, so BEAS is likely not a mistake and is probably spelled to sound like “BESS.” Interesting.

John Bess of Thicketty Creek

I can’t find anything on John “BEAS,” however, I did find a South Carolina land record for John BESS with a Cantrell neighbor. On the 1810 census record (above), John BEAS is listed next to Reubin Cantrell.

1800 Census Record: John BESS

I found John Bess on an 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina. This is an interesting record, because the page prior, we have Henry Pettit’s father listed (Joshua Pettit). We also have him listed near Samuel Dunaway. John Bess land record for 1810, also mentions DUNWAY.

Thicketty Creek: Broad River Basin – Tryon County

The Thicketty Creek area is very interesting, because it used to be part of Tryon County, North Carolina. It is directly beneath Sandy Run and Shoal Creek where we later find Peter Vess with the Hambrick and Bridges families. It is also near the Pacelot River where we find the Pool, Pettit, Willis, and many other interesting families.

SPARKS Family Near Enoree River

Listed on the 1810 census with John BEAS and Henry PETTIT are a few PENNINGTON families. According to Anna Popejoy, the Pennington and Whitlock family traveled to Franklin County, Alabama together and we know that the Pennington family had a lot of land near FoxTrap. In short, Pennington is a family of interest.

Vince is looking into triangulating with Pennington families who are supposedly descendants of an “Ephriam Pennington.” He mentioned Kentucky, but I did find an Ephraim Pennington in South Carolina via an early marriage record (not specifically dated though). I not sure if it means anything right now.

While investigating the Pennington families on the 1810 census with John BEAS, I found Isaac Pennington (1715-1760) whose son-in-law is Charles King to be very interesting. His neighbor, per land records, was Zachariah SPARKS and they lived near the Enoree River.

Quick note: Isaac Pennington had a son that went to Kentucky, so maybe there is a connection with what Vince is looking at with the descendants of Ephraim Pennington??

Zachariah Sparks 1790 Union County, SC Census: GEORGE VOST

Zachariah is not found on any records for Spartanburg County, NC, but it is important to note that boundaries of early South Carolina were a mess and early records could be listed under anything.

However, I did find him on a 1790 census record which has some very interesting names: George VOST, RAINEY BELLEW Jr., and Zachary SPARKS.

So, I don’t know if this just another wild-goose chase or a really good lead that should be further investigated. This John BEAS is in a really good location. He is listed on a Samuel Dunaway Will dated 1815, so I think I am going to look a little more into Dunaway. Maybe, there are connections to other familiar families.










VICE FAMILY: A Vess Genealogy DEAD END

/ J. V.

The VICE family seems like great candidates as possible VESS ancestors due to their connection with the PETTIT family in South Carolina, but I doubt there is a paternal-link. We just don’t share the same origin stories and I find that strange. I would think different lines of our early ancestors would share a similar family story regarding Ireland.

If you think about it, every version of our family origin story always has 3 consistent parts: Ireland, 3 brothers, and a name change. No matter what, these 3 elements appear to mean a lot to our VESS family.

Of course, family stories are not 100% accurate, but surely they must contain some ounce of truth that can provide us clues to our past. I mean, the stories had to come from somewhere?

I have often wondered if the Ireland aspect came about because of Tryon County (abolished county in North Carolina) that could easily be misinterpreted later as the County of Tyrone in Ireland. However, the Peter Vess line spent generations in one place (McDowell County) that was once part of Tryon County. How would they not know Tryon County ever existed??

Also, I must admit, I’ve only heard family stories about Ireland from the Peter Vess line. What have the Willis Vess and Nathaniel Vess lines been told? Is it similar? Have they been told they come from Ireland too?

The VICE family intrigues me for the consistent name of NATHANIEL and JOHN throughout their family tree. However, according to several sources that I found online, the VICE family is supposedly Welsh in origin. Those descending from Nathaniel Vice and Dorcas Meadows supposedly have a connection with Pochahantas (now surely our family wouldn’t leave that part out). Carolyar.com

Other sources say they are Dutch (Frederick Count, VA had a Dutch population). AND, despite having the name VESSEY on their family tree – stories say he came from England. I have not found any stories suggesting any kind of connection to Ireland.

Their English origins intrigue me, because I feel as if VESS DNA is predominately English. It is my understanding that the Y-DNA Haplogroup we descend from is English/Scottish, which has recently taken me into a new direction away from the VICE family, but interestingly, not too far away from the VICE family.

As of right now, for me, the VICE family is a DEAD END; at least until a male VICE descendant tests their Y-DNA or we stumble across some significant genealogy record that can confirm a solid connection. In the mean time, research in South Carolina has not gone to waste!

Researching the families in South Carolina (especially, Abbeville) where we find a mysterious John Vess and Drucilla Turner (1850), has some interesting findings related to an unknown VICE family, a TRAVERS family from Cork Ireland, and a ghost VOSS family who appears to have eluded the census records yet mysteriously pop up in other family records (like Wills and accounting papers)!

Jonathan Vess Of Texas-A Possible Vice Connection

/ J. V. / 1 Comment

This is a long post, but I assure you it is worth the read…

Friendly Reminder:
The opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.

Tangled DNA Matches

Genetic genealogy is a great tool in locating stuborn early ancestors; however, the colossal challenge of analyzing autosomal DNA is that it is limited to only 6-8 generations.

For me, my autosomal DNA largely captures descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Lucy Malinda Halford (my 3rd great grandparents – 6th generation). It also detects a good portion of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Cinthia Conner, because we share a good deal of DNA from Andrew Logan Vess.

As we move over on the Vess family tree to the siblings of Andrew Logan Vess (John, Josiah, Alfred, etc.), those matches are more distant as they are barely detectable with <1% DNA match. Interestingly though, comparing the number of shared DNA segments (cM), I match closer to descendants of Willis Vess than I do to the descendants of Nathan Vess, sometimes more closely than the siblings of Andrew Logan Vess! This, in my opinion, likely has A LOT to do with my mother’s deep roots in South Carolina and Georgia.

It is extremely difficult to pry apart my parents shared southern DNA matches.
My mother matches with ALL the descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Lucy Malinda “Linnia” Halford (the bulk of my shared Vess matches) on my father’s side, because Linnia Halford’s mother, Sarah Jane “Lollie” HILL, is a descendant of William Augustus Hill, my mother’s 7th great-grandfather. To make matters worse, the Halford and Hill families lived next to each other on Knobs Creek in Rutherford County, North Carolina, mingling with so many families connected to the Vess family!

Thomas J. Halford & Sarah Jane “Lollie” Hill
Rutherford County, North Carolina

My mother’s Hill line eventually settled in Anderson, Abbeville County, South Carolina, which just so happens to be a hot spot where many families of interest seem to have converged at one point or another. One HILL ancestor of mine, found his way to Greenville, South Carolina and connected with a BENTLEY from Georgia, opening the flood gates to even more deeper roots in the South.

With this, my mother seems to shares DNA matches with many southern families, including the Nathaniel Vice family (via a Turley connection) that migrated to Alabama as they passed through Georgia.

Interestingly, my mother does not share DNA matches with descendants of REUBEN VICE of South Carolina, who is the son of John Vice and Frances Roebuck. She also does not share DNA matches with VICE families in Kentucky who are likely connected to Nathaniel Vice II (brother of John Vice of South Carolina). This is interesting, because if she doesn’t share those matches, it is likely a connection on my VESS line.

How do I know it’s not a connection on my parents maternal lines?
DNA matches suggest a connection within 6-8 generations back, which would greatly eliminated my parents maternal sides who arrived late to the United States and had very little connection with the south. My father’s maternal side arrived in Ohio in 1894 from Austria and my mother’s maternal side arrived in Michigan in 1948 from England. When looking at shared matches, it is easy to identify and eliminate leads connected to my parents maternal sides.

Exploring Sarah A. Vess & Vardry McBee Connection

Vincent Vess, co-admin of the Vess Family DNA Project, has made an interesting discovery analyzing his own autosomomal DNA.

He discovered a shared DNA match with a Vess descendant of Alabama and a descendant of Sarah A. Vess and Vardry “Nodsed” McBEE; Sarah being the daughter of Jonathan Vess and Elizabeth Heron in Jackson County, Texas.

If the name Vardry McBee sounds oddly familiar, that is because it is a name often seen on many records in North Carolina. According to the Biographical Information section of McBEE Family Papers, Captain Vardry McBee was a constable in 1770 in Tryon County, North Carolina. His son, Vardry McBee Jr., later became a court clerk in Lincoln County, North Carolina in 1812.

The name “Vardry” is used numerous times throughout their family tree. Vardry “Nodsed” McBee, husband of Sarah Ann Vess, being one of them.

Vardry “Nodsed” McBee descends from Captain Vardry McBee (1734) and Hannah ECHOLS from Virginia via Silas Echols McBee Sr. (1765) who is the older brother of Vardry McBee Jr (1775), court clerk of Lincoln County, NC.

Unfortunately, not much is mentioned about Silas Echols McBee Sr. (1765) who appears to have settled in Kentucky. However, according to South Carolina Digital Records, there is a 1785 land record for Silas McBee, next to Vardry McBee (I assume his father-Sr.) on Thickety Creek in the 96th District of South Carolina. [Located North of the Pool and Pettit families] According to Revolutionary War Rosters, Silas and Vardry McBee served under Col. Roebuck (related to Francis Roebuck, wife of John Vice).

We do know that John Vice also had family in Kentucky via Nathaniel Vice II; however, very little is known about them.

Peter White of Texas – Discovery of Henry Vice of Virginia

When Jonathan Vess of Texas died, Elizabeth Heron married Peter White.

Peter White was born in Virginia (1801) to Shadrick White and Sarah Gibson. According to the Annuals of Soutwest Virginia 1769-1800 (pg. 1252), Shadrick was living in an area on or near “Madien Spring Fork Clinch River,” which is located in Tazewell County, VA near the North Fork Holston River.

*Note: Jonathan Vess and Peter White are both listed in Stephen F. Austins Register of Families, both having traveled from Missouri.

I decided to check for VICE families in and around the area and surprisingly, I discovered Henry VICE, living on South Fork Holston River, less than 50 miles away from the White family. Unfortunately, I do not know if Henry Vice is related to John and Nathaniel Vice, however, further research suggests there may be a connection.

1792: Henry Vice joins land with John Vaught and and Jarvis Smyth
1803: Henry Vice adds 60 acres to his own land
1803: Henry Vice joins land with Alexander Campbell and Crockett family
1806: Joseph Williams joins land with Henry Vice

County Boundaries Notes:
Although records for Henry Vice state Wythe County, the South Fork of Holston River is not in Wythe County. It begins in modern day Smyth County and flows through Washington County. Wythe County used to cover parts of Smyth and Washington County prior to 1792. Wythe County also included modern day Tazewell County and extended all the way to Patrick County. Residents in the Holston River area are likely to have records under several different counties.

James Harvey Vest

A few months back I gained an interest in James Harvey Vest (1838) from Patrick County, VA. I noticed the name was on a list of Y-DNA results next to Willis Vess; however, it was explained to me that they are not related to each other, but curiously, neither of them are related to the VEST family of Virginia.

I reached out to W. Langdon, whose family has done extensive research on James Harvey Vest. With their help, I was able to check for shared DNA matches between our families and it turns out that my aunt (via her Vess line) does share a DNA match with a descendant of James Harvey Vest with two interesting families on their family tree: CAUDILL and VESSE (specifically Ephremia Vesse).

We could be connected through our family’s COX line (Pearl Cox), for that the COX and CAUDILL families were close together in Wilkes County, North Carolina. Interestingly, this was during a time when a William Vess was there.

I’ve seen Ephremia Vesse on many trees of shared DNA matches. She is the daughter of John “Vessey” and married Partick Conyngham (Cunningham). The interesting part is that sources say she died in Augusta County, Virginia. A place we have found shared DNA matches among the descendants of Willis and Peter Vess with a descendant of an early Logan family living in Augusta County, near the VESS/VEST family of Rockbridge County, VA. [I will share those findings in a different post, as I have found more pockets of VESS/VEST/ VICE families all along the western counties of Virginia]

CAUDILL and VESSE are also interesting, for that the VICE family supposedly descends from a VESSEY in Frederick County, VA and according to Appalachian Home website, CAUDILL and VICE families are listed as “Allied families.”
What is the connection though?

In 1850, James Harvey Vest (1838) and his sister Nancy Vest were in Tazewell County, Virginia. His sister Nancy, married Joseph White, who I believe is related to the same White family as Peter White and her marriage record states she was born in Patrick County, VA and that her father is “Henry VOSS” and “Mary” (no last name). According to public trees on Ancestry.com, Mary may have a connection to the Caudle family. Could James Harvey Vest be related to Henry Vice?

But, it gets even more interesting…

James Heron: Holston River

I looked at land records for the Holston River area and discovered James Heron. Not only did he have land on the South Fork of the Holston River (like Henry Vice), but also on all the Forks of the Holston River, including the North Fork near the White family.

I can’t help but wonder, is this the same James Heron we see on the Patrick County, VA Deed Records 1791-1801 on Bull Mountain and Koger Creek with William Vess/Voss? Is this James Heron related to Elizabeth Heron, wife of Jonathan Vess of Texas?

The Genealogy Monkey Wrench: Y-DNA

I hate busting bubbles, but James Harvey Vest does not appear to be genetically related to our Vess family. Although we do share the same parent Haplogroup (R), our lineages separated thousands of years ago into R1a and R1b subgroups. Our Vess family branches from R1a, whereas James Harvey Vest branches from R1b. Yet, curiously, genealogical records strongly suggest that both our families may have a connection with the Vice family.

Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, there is no available information regarding Y-DNA testing for the VICE family.

But, there is a slight glimmer of hope for a connection, for that our VESS family is mysteriously closely related to the Travers family. So, in theory, it is still plausible that there could be a connection to all these families, perhaps through a half-sibling somewhere.

Quick Recap:

  1. Genealogical records suggest a connection between the VESS and VICE families.
  2. There appears to be a distant connection between an Alabama Vess and a descendant of Jonathan Vess of Texas (via Sarah A. Vess and Vardry McBee).
  3. McBee family has history in North Carolina.
  4. Elizabeth Heron married Peter White after the death of Johnathan Vess. The White family is from Tazewell County, Virginia.
  5. Henry Vice (relation to John Vice family unknown) has land in the Holston River area near the White family.
  6. Research strongly suggests that James Harvey Vest from Partick County, Virginia living in Tazewell County, VA in 1850, may have a connection with the Vice family too.
  7. A marriage record for James Harvey Vest’s sister states their father is “Henry Voss.”
  8. James HERON also has land in the Holston River area. Interestingly, we see the name James HERON with William VESS/VOSS on Bull Mountain and Koger Creek in Patrick County, VA deed records 1791-1801. Is this the same James Heron?
  9. Jonathan Vess and Elizabeth Heron were married in Patrick County, VA.
  10. Further research and autosomal DNA analysis suggests a Vess connection with early VICE families in Virginia and records have revealed more pockets of VESS/VEST/VOSS/VICE families throughout the western counties of Virginia.












































Let’s start in Patrick
He was born in Virginia, 1779 and married Elizabeth Heron in 1791, in Patrick County, Virginia. We have discovered a William Vess/Vest in Patrick County, Virginia living near the Heron family (Patrick County deed records). This is either Jonathan William Vess himself or perhaps his father.

In the mid-1820’s him and his wife, Elizabeth Heron, traveled to Missouri and then down to the Republic of Texas with Stephen F. Austin. In 1831, Jonathan received land from the Mexican government and gave a portion of his land to build the town of Morales, TX (a ghost-town today with a history of outlaws).

John died in 1846. His daughter, Mary Lorena Vess, married Samuel McCulloch Jr., who was a free-slave, famously known for fighting in the Texas Revolution.

Vess Genealogy: South Carolina Connections

/ J. V.

Research strongly suggests that Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess may have common connections in South Carolina. In this post, we begin to explore these possible connections.

Please note that the opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.

Mapping Out Families

Using information obtained by South Carolina Digital Records, I was able to map a few families that may have connections with our earliest known ancestors: Pool, Pettit, Bellew, and Willis families.
*Toney and Nicholl records have also been found, but are not mapped above.

  • Pool and Pettit families lived along the Pacelot River below Lawson’s Fork.
  • Bellew and Willis families lived along Fair Forest Creek.
  • Vice and Hembree families lived along Cain Creek branching out from the Tyger River.

Peter Vess: Pettit & Toney Families

According to Peter’s 1820 census record, he is listed next to David Mooney, Henry Pettit, James Young, and Abraham Toney. The Pettit and Toney families married each other and were members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess. [Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu].

According to North Carolina’s Land grants and deed website and various other sources, David Mooney’s family has been in this area of North Carolina since the 1760’s (Tryon County), having traveled with the Eacker family. Living nearby in Lincoln County, North Carolina is the Boston Best and Charles Gosnell family. Boston Best has early land records in Tryon County, but I not sure if those properties are in modern-day North Carolina or South Carolina.

Interestingly, Boston Best (I believe to be Jr.) is on the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record [below] near Henry Pettit, while his father Boston Best Sr. is listed next to Charles Gosnell in the 1790 Lincoln County, North Carolina census record. Charles Gosnell’s son, Joshua Gosnell, is listed next to Abraham Belue (Bellew) on the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record – a few pages over from Henry Pettit.

Also, John Vice/Vise is on the same page of the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record as Henry Pettit, but listed as John “Wise.” We can safely assume John “Wise” is John Vice, based on other families on the same page, such as Joel Hembree (Embry) who is a neighbor of John Vice per land records.

We know the Toney family was also in South Carolina. They appear to have been in South Carolina as early as the Revolutionary War (like Henry Pettit). I found a Toney family with a land record in Tyger River dated the same year that John Vice obtained land in the Tyger River area too [below].

According to family trees for the Toney family, Abraham Toney of Rutherford County, North Carolina (with Peter Vess) is supposedly related to Timothy Toney of South Carolina. There are numerous Abraham’s on the family tree and 2 of them went by William (Abraham William Toney) which has caused a lot of confusion, so further research is needed to confirm the two Toney families are related.


Also, I see John Stovall next to Henry Pettit on the 1790 census.
I believe Ann Pool, Henry’s wife, is related to the Stovall family (her maternal line) and the Stovall family had connections with the prominent PENN and HAIRSTON families in Patrick County, Virginia where we find William and Peter Vess [1790-1801 Patrick County Deeds].

Dunneway is also an interesting name on the 1790 census [above]. There is a marriage record for Nathaniel Vice and Sarah Dunaway in Kentucky (1802). This is supposedly Nathaniel Vice Jr., brother of John Vice Sr. in South Carolina. There appears to be confusion over the numerous Nathaniels in the Vice family tree, so it is not certain how they are actually connected, further research is needed.

According to the Vice family trees, Nathaniel and John Vice are brothers…do they, perhaps have a brother named Peter? And, would this Peter have been the Peter from Patrick County, Virginia? If the VICE and VESS families are the same family, is this where our oral tradition about the three brothers: Peter, John, and Nathaniel come from?

Nathan Vess: Bellew & Gosnell Families

Nathan’s wife, Clarinda Bellew is supposedly a descendant of the Gosnell/Bellew families of the Dark Corners of South Carolina (Glassy Mountain, Greenville Co. SC) with her father being John Bellew and her mother being Clarinda Gosnell.

We can find Nathan Vess and John Bellew on the 1830 Rutherford County, North Carolina census record.

On the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record [below], we have Joshua Gosnell (son of Charles Gosnell of Lincoln County, NC) and Abraham Bellew, who is supposedly Clarinda Bellew’s grandfather.


There are numerous records for the Bellew (Belue, Bellew) family in South Carolina, prior to them settling in Glassy Mountain, Greenville County. One record of interest, is a 1774 record for Abraham Belue on Dutchmans Creek along Tyger River [below]. This is dated much earlier than the Vice family; however, Pruitt is a name that appears to be connected to the Pettit and Vice families. Of course, further investigation is needed here too.


Coincidence or Fact: Mac-Hugh Story

According to one of our family’s oral traditions about an O’Donnell-Vess, the Vess family supposedly came over with an O’Neil and an O’Donnell family from Ireland. O’Neill, wanted by the English Crown, supposedly changed his name to Mac Hugh (for his red hair) and was highly respected by the Vess family.

This oral tradition is said to have been very important to the Vess family (descendants of David Andrew Vess and Magnolia Gosnell). Upon further investigation, I found that this story appears to be similar to 2 actual historical events: The O’Donnell and O’Neil clans from Northern Ireland (1500’s) and the infamous outlaw of South Carolina’s Dark Corners, Lewis Redmond.

Knowing more about the Dark Corners of South Carolina and its residents, it is extremely interesting a William “Readmond” and Thomas “Neal”are listed next to the Gosnell and Bellew families on the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census [above]; especially, since the Gosnell and Bellew families settled in Greenville County, South Carolina, in an area where Lewis Redmond will become a well-respected outlaw. Is he a descendant of William Readmond and were the Bellew, Gosnell, and Vess families connected to the Readmond and Neil families?

Willis Vess: Willis, Ligon, and Other Families

Willis Vess was supposedly born in 1810 in North Carolina, but records of him do not appear until 1830 in Franklin County, Alabama. Interestingly, sources say some of the Vice families migrated to Alabama and there is a document on Ancestry.com that was posted in 2011, stating John Roebuck Vise Sr. and Martha Pruitt having had a child named Willis born in 1810. Unfortunately, this does not confirm Willis Vise and Willis Vess are the same person. But, perhaps there is a connection…

The oldest children of Willis Vess and Talitha Whitlock married into the John Willis family who are shown to be neighbors in Foxtrap, Franklin County, Alabama [below].

Looking at South Carolina records, I came across the Ligon name (Robert Ligon) on a land record for John Pool [below]. Note: Pool, Rogers and Meadows have connections with the Vice family.

Then, looking at the Franklin Co. Alabama plat map [below], there in the Foxtrap area with Willis Vess and John Willis, is listed James and Abner Ligon. Further research states that James and Abner Ligon are the sons of Robert Ligon in South Carolina. Also, James Dubois is a family that was in Foxtrap as early as 1820, possibly one of the earlier settlers of the area and Dubois is also a name found in early records of Tyger River community in South Carolina.

Below is another interesting record.
Here we find the Nicholls family (also found in Franklin County, Alabama) on a land record with the following families: Meadows (married Nathaniel Vice)
Pettit (married Mary Vice)
Rogers (neighbors of John Vice)
Willis (maybe related to John Willis)

So, I can’t help but wonder: Could Willis Vess be related to the Vice family of South Carolina? And, could John Willis, neighbors of Willis Vess, be related to Richard Willis?

So many interesting discoveries and still so many more questions; but it appears that South Carolina may be the key to unraveling the mysteries of the Vess family!

John Vice: The Missing Link To Vess Genealogy?

/ J. V.

Although the VESS/VEST family of Patrick County, Virginia (1790-1801) are extremely intriguing and seem like a promising connection, I am drawn back to the Dark Corners of South Carolina. I decided to take another look at Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess. Looking at all my research, I have come to realize that the early families surrounding them, all came from South Carolina.

Peter: Pettit and Toney families.
Willis: Nichols, Willis, Askews, Whitlock families (many more)
Nathan: Bellew and Gosnell families

Of course, these families all have different origin-origins, like the Pettit family come from New Jersey, the Gosnell family come from Maryland, and the Nichols, Willis, Askews (Eskews) and Whitlock families come from Virginia; but all of them, just before they appear with our earliest known Vess ancestors (Peter, Willis, and Nathan) … were all in South Carolina; more specifically, the Tyger River area.

Tyger River Area: South Carolina’s Complicated Borders

The western portion of South Carolina has a complicated history with very messy borders, making it a nightmare to find family records. For instance, between 1769-1779, Tryon County, North Carolina and the Ninety-Six District in South Carolina overlap. Some residents in this area were issued land from the State of North Carolina while others were issued land from the state of South Carolina.

The Vice Family

I’ve looked for families with similar surnames to VESS in South Carolina a zillion times, but apparently, I overlooked the VICE family.

On the 1810 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I found a John Vice next to Nancy Poole. Nancy Poole reminds me of Nancy Pool, sister of Mary Ann Pool, who married Henry Pettit Sr (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess).

So, I searched the name “John Vice” in the South Carolina Digital Archives.
One record of interest is a land record dated 1824 for Benjamin Nicholls on Thomsons Branch along the Tyger River. It includes familiar families such as Duncan, Moore, Nicholls, Pettit, and Willis.

Clearly intrigued, I began to research further…

Many early families are well documented by family historians and generally, with a few odd-ball keywords, a good chunk of their history can be found via Google. I was fortunate to find information pertaining to the VICE family on a Turley Family website.

Who Is John Vice

Land records show that the Vice family has been in the Tyger River community as early as 1782 and numerous sources say some members of the Vice family moved to Benton (now Calhoun) county, Alabama.

Research tells us that John Vice was born in Orange County, Virginia about 1755 and died in Spartanburg County, South Carolina in 1833. He is the son of Nathaniel Camp Vice (1730-1802) of Frederick County, Virginia.

Nathaniel Camp Vice is supposedly the son of Robert or John VESSEY of Frederick County, Virginia; however, the origins of VESSEY are not clear. Nathaniel Camp Vice migrated south and settled in Campbell County, Kentucky with many of his descendants rooting in Bath County, Kentucky.

Nathaniel’s son, John Vice (some note his name as John William Vice), married Frances Roebuck in 1773 in Chatham County, North Carolina, before settling in Spartanburg County, South Carolina. According to the Turley Family website, they had 10 children:

John Roebuck Vise abt. 1774

Nathaniel Vise abt. 1774 and married Dorcas MEADERS. (Meadows?)

Rhoda Vise abt. 1776 and married Peter LAWRENCE.

Levi Vise abt. 1778

George Vise  abt. 1780 and married Elizabeth WALKER.

Reuben Vise  1782

Eliphous Hosea “Eli” Vise abt. 1785 and married Rebecca MEADERS. (Meadows?)

Elizabeth Vise 1787 in Spartanburg , SC and married Thomas WRIGHT.

Azariah “Zery” Vise  abt. 1790

Jeremiah “Jere” Vise about 1790

Abner Vise about 1792 and married Lucinda PREWITT.

Jemima Vise about 1792

A Tyger River Baptist Church Connection


The Turley family website states: “John Vise and Frances Roebuck Vise were members of the Tyger River Baptist Church, also called Friendship Church. On the membership roll for 1801-1803…” 

This is an incredible find, for that the Tyger River Baptist Church was part of the same church association as Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. We also know that the Pettit family were also members of the Tyger River Baptist Church.

According to history.ky.gov, the location of the Tyger River Baptist Church is unknown however is said to have been located in the northern portion of Greenville County, close to the North Carolina border. This would ideally put the church very close to the Glassy Mountain community and the communities along the Pacelot River (North and South Carolina border in modern day Polk County) where we find many early families from Tryon County (like the Logan family).

I bet there are a lot of interesting families listed as members on the Tyger River Baptist Church Membership Rolls; unfortunately, these records do not appear to be available online nor are they physically available near me.

Census Records: Spartanburg County, South Carolina

On the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families:
1. Boston Best
2. Henry Pattit (Pettit)
3. Joshua Pattit (Pettit)
4. John Wice (Vice)

A few pages over, you will find the following families:
1. Abraham Belue (Bellew)
2. Joshua Gosnell

*The Bise families on the 1790 census might actually be part of the Vise family.

On the 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families interestingly close together:
Nat Vice (Nathaniel Vice, John Vice son)
John Willis
Richard Willis (find him on land records with Vice family)


DNA Connections

Autosomal DNA Results
For me, many of the names on the VICE family tree frequently show up in my DNA relatives list, especially via the Turley, McPherson, and White families.

Even more interestingly, I have a long list of distant DNA relatives with family trees showing them as descendants of the VICE family and not just through one VICE family line, but numerous VICE family lines. Most are via John and Nathaniel Vice (sons of John and France Roebuck Vice of South Carolina) and others are from several different descending lines (sons and daughters) from Nathaniel Camp Vice in Kentucky. And, to make it even more interesting, they share DNA relatives with DNA relatives who are descendants on the Willis Vess line.

Pettit – Vice Connection
The granddaughter of John Vice married Benjamin Pettit who is related to Henry Pettit Sr. (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess) through Joshua Pettit.

John Vice and Henry Pettit have a common neighbor: Andrew Thomson. *Correction: Andrew Thomson maybe the surveyor.
1. 1784 land record: Pacelot River / Ninety-six District Henry Pettit, William Pool, and Andrew Thomson
2. 1786 land record: Tyger River / Ninety-six District John Vise, Andrew Thomson, John Oshields, Joel Hembree, David Grimes, John Butler *Pettit and Hembree families are related.

The Next Chapter: Vice Family

I am really excited about discovering the Vice family! Not only do they have a similar surname to VESS, but they are also in the right place at the right time, surrounded by many familiar families that connect with Peter, Willis, and Nathan!

Also, because the Vice family is supposedly from Frederick County, Virginia, there is still a chance for a possible connection with the Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia!

So, I am extremely excited!! This could be our family’s missing link OR I am embarking upon another goose-chase!












A Mysterious John Vess In South Carolina?

/ J. V. / 4 Comments

There are many different VESS family lines today, many of which that have descended from Peter and Nathan Vess of North Carolina; however, there are actually a few unrelated families with similar surnames that, at one point or another, diverted from their original family tree with the Vess name (such as the Vest family).

The ultimate challenge in Vess Genealogy is trying to trace Vess lines accurately back to their original families.

A while ago, I stumbled on a Greenwood, South Carolina record with the name “John Vess.” Unfortunately, the document is not dated. By the looks of it, (I am certainly no expert), I would say it was probably created sometime in the 1800’s; which leaves us to ponder…who was living in South Carolina in the 1800’s?

South Carolina Online Records

Dating The Document

To figure out who this John Vess might be, we first need to date the document.

Unfortunately, I am not entirely familiar with the history, districts, or residents of South Carolina. Like, North Carolina, counties and districts were frequently changing during the 1800’s, scattering records across several different areas creating some research challenges.

However, according to some recent research, Greenwood was named after a plantation in 1824. In 1897 Greenwood County was established, which was previously part of Abbeville and Edgefield, far from the Bellew and Gosnell families in Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina who are connected with Nathaniel Vess.

According to the document, the residents referred to Greenwood as a “village” that consisted of “32 families” from the Abbeville District; in which makes this document a bit older than 1824, but probably not quite as old as 1900.

Possibly Created Between 1843-1860

Today, with an approximate range of dates, I was able to find the residents named on the Greenwood document on a single record: The 1850 South Carolina, Abbeville, Greenwood census record.

Interestingly, I found nearly all the residents, except one or two, including John Vess. I found him on a different census: The 1850 South Carolina, Abbeville, Saluda census record.

Saluda and Greenwood are next to each other. They will both eventually become their own county, but at this time, they are part of Abbeville County.

Ancestry.com 1850 census record South Carolina, Abbeville, Saluda

The undated Greenwood document was likely created between 1843 and 1860.

According to the 1850 census, some of the residents named on the Greenwood document are in their twenties, so we can probably, safely assume, the Greenwood document was created sometime after 1843. Many of the other residents are over 50 and are missing on the 1860 census (including John Vess), suggesting the document could not have been created after 1860. So, this gives us a pretty good date range to research a local Vess family in the Greenwood area.

About John Vess of Saluda, SC

Looking at the Greenwood document, named is John Turner and John Vess. I found John Turner (30 years-old) on the 1850 Abbeville, Greenwood, South Carolina census. But, there is no John Vess on that census.

As previously mentioned, John Vess (25 years-old) is on the 1850 Abbeville, Saluda, South Carolina census record. He is listed living with an Alexander Turner.

This is the only census record I can find for this John Vess. He was born in 1825, in South Carolina. He married Drucilla Turner, daughter of Alexander Turner. According to the 1850 census record, they married within the year.

According to the 1860 census record, Drucilla Turner (Vess) is without John Vess, but she has a 7-year-old son named James Vess. She is living with her father, Alexander Turner.

I also discovered another VESS record, who appear to be two brothers named William E Vess (22) and John Vess (24), both carpenters, born in North Carolina, living with a Brooks family in Abbeville, Saluda Regiment (Edgefield), South Carolina. They are approximately around the same age as the John Vess found living with Alexander Turner, yet born in different states. I do not know what to make of this…

The ages of William and John would make them possible children of Peter and Nathaniel Vess; however, all their children can be found living in North Carolina.

According to the 1850 census records, Nathan (Nathaniel) and his family are living in Buncombe County, North Carolina. All except his oldest son, Andrew Jackson, who is living in Haywood County with his in-laws, Parmer.

Peter’s children are living with their mother, Catherine, in Bill’s Creek, Rutherford County, North Carolina. All except for his son, Andrew Logan, who is living in Montford Cove, Rutherford County, North Carolina with his in-laws, Halford.

Pondering Possible Relations

At first, I thought John Vess (married to Drucilla Turner) was the son of Peter Vess, for that an 1854 newspaper clipping (Petition for Divorce) states his son was no longer a resident of North Carolina. But, we find him on the 1850 census record, with his wife Elizabeth and their children, living in Bills Creek, Rutherford County, North Carolina with his mother and siblings. Unless, he moved in between census, he is unlikely to be Peter’s son. Also, all of Peter’s children were born in Rutherford County, North Carolina.

Although there is some debate on whether or not Nathan’s older children were born in South Carolina, all of his known children can also be found in North Carolina in 1850.

Perhaps, this John Vess is the son of Jonathan Vess, the so-called brother of Peter and Nathan Vess, which we know so little about.

As for the brothers, William and John Vess, born in North Carolina; I strongly suspect they are likely related to the VEST family, because of their trade. The Vest family of North Carolina appears to be well educated and the son of William “Tunwell” Vest, Charles Vest, was a manufacture (construction trade). It would only make sense that his sons or even nephews would take on a similar trade. Whereas Peter and Nathan Vess are farmers.

But there are other possibilities too, due to name changes. These Vess families could also be related to the West, Wiss, or even Voss families of South Carolina. Further research is certainly needed.