Not much is known about John Vess, the oldest son of Peter Vess and Catherine “Katie” Crook of Rutherford Co. North Carolina.
For generations, the only information we had on John was from the 1850 census record in Bill’s Creek, Rutherford Co., North Carolina (below). He was married to a woman named Elizabeth and they had 4 children together.
Only just recently, through DNA genealogy and access to more digital genealogical records, have we been able to discover more about the early Vess family…
John Vess & Elizabeth Taylor: Rutherford Co. NC
John Vess was born in Rutherford County, North Carolina in 1820 to Peter VESS and Catherine “Katie” CROOK.
He married Mary Elizabeth Taylor (marriage date unknown). He briefly attended Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in November of 1846, with his brothers Alfred and Andrew (Andy) Vess. He was later dismissed (date unknown).
In December 1846, he signs a court-document with his brother Josiah, settling his father’s debt with Joseph Souther via a land deed for Peter’s property.
In 1850, he is in Bill’s Creek, Rutherford Co. North Carolina with his wife and 4 children, listed next to his family, Josiah Vess, Catherine Vess, and his younger siblings, except for Andrew Vess. It is strongly believed that Peter Vess likely passed away in 1846.
In 1854, a Petition for Divorce was announced in the newspaper between John and Elizabeth Vess. The article states John Vess was a non-resident of the state, suggesting he had moved out of state.
Elizabeth married Joshua SOUTHER in Nov 1854, in Henderson Co. North Carolina. We discover her maiden name is TAYLOR via her marriage record to Joshua SOUTHER.
On the 1860 census, we have Elizabeth Souther and her younger children (Vess) living with Joshua Souther in Henderson Co. North Carolina.
In 1870, Joshua and Elizabeth Souther are living next Elizabeth’s parents, James TAYLOR and Mary TAYLOR (GILBERT) in Henderson Co. NC.
Children of John Vess and Elizabeth Taylor
DNA genealogy revealed that Sarah Vess, daughter John Vess and Elizabeth Taylor, married Jackson PRESSLEY. Genealogical records show us that Silas Vess died during the Civil War, Sophrona Vess married Columbus SUMMEY, and, Mary Vess was last seen on the 1860 census (age 13); she may have married prior to the 1870 census. But, apparently, John and Elizabeth had an other child: William River VESS.
I came across a marriage record for a William Vess in Henderson Co. NC dated 1870, which states his parents are John and Elizabeth Vess (below). The only Vess family I am aware of in Henderson Co. is John’s children, living with their mother Elizabeth and Joshua Souther. And, to the best of my knowledge, Nathaniel Vess did not have any children named John.
William Vess married Laura MAHAFFEY (Rowena Laura Lou Mahaffey), whose parents are supposedly William MAHAFFEY and Calvania PRESSLEY from South Carolina. Her mother might be related to Jackson PRESSLEY, as it is believed his family also came from South Carolina – more research is needed.
William Vess was born in 1852 in North Carolina, which would have certainly been before John and Elizabeth’s divorce.
According to family trees and online biographies, William and Rowena (Laura) settled in Texas. According to Find-A-Grave, William died “from the 1917 epidemic” in Bonham, Fannin County, Texas.
Sources:
Ancestry.com. North Carolina, U.S., Marriage Records, 1741-2011 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2015.
The National Archives in Washington D.C.; Record Group: Records of the Bureau of the Census; Record Group Number: 29; Series Number: M432; Residence Date: 1850; Home in 1850: Bills Creek, Rutherford, North Carolina; Roll: 644; Page: 330a
Ancestry.com. North Carolina, U.S., Marriage Records, 1741-2011 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2015.
Ancestry.com. 1860 United States Federal Census [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2009. Images reproduced by FamilySearch.
Between 1800-1830, we have pockets of Vess/Vest families throughout the United States, but no idea how they are all related (if related at all).
Austosomal DNA evidence only provides bits and pieces to the puzzle. This is because not all the family trees connected to our shared DNA matches are accurate or complete, not all descendants are testing, and there is also the problem that some DNA testers, although 100% related, just don’t show up on our shared DNA results due to being too distant to detect, especially, with ancestral connections 6-8 generations back. However, autosomal shared DNA matches do offer valuable clues to where our earlier ancestors may have lived; which is how we were able to uncover the VESS/VEST family in Wilkes County, North Carolina. A lot of our shared DNA matches with the VESS family have a significant amount of family trees with earlier ancestors in Wilkes-Stokes-and Surry County, North Carolina; kind of concentrated along the Yadkin River.
Ancestry.com splits my maternal and paternal DNA matches, which is extremely helpful, since my DNA is pretty murky between two parents with deep roots in the south. However, all my shared DNA matches with the VESS line share something in common: western North Carolina. I am confident that our VESS family has connections with the VESS/VEST family in Wilkes County, North Carolina; I just don’t know the exact connection yet.
These are some intriguing new discoveries I’ve dug since January of this year…
A Peter Vess in Franklin County, Alabama
Occasionally, I browse newspaper articles on Newspaper.com for VESS families and sometimes, I get lucky…
Below is a newspaper clipping for a PETER VESS dated 1842 in Franklin County, Alabama!
This is really interesting, because the only VESS ancestor we know of in Franklin County, Alabama during the 1840’s is WILLIS VESS. What’s even more interesting, is that mail for Peter VESS is being held at the post office in Russellville, which is the same post office for the Willis VESS family. So, Who is Peter Vess?
SPARKMANTOWN: South Side of Caney Fork
I have reason to believe that the Willis VESS family is connected to the VESS/VEST family in White County, TN. Specifically, in an area once known as Sparkmantown (below). It consisted of the SPARKMAN, DODSON, SIMMON, SMALLMAN, and MEDLEY families in Van Buren County (White County), Tennessee; families who were also listed next to Peter VEST on the 1820 and 1830 census and on the VESS/VEST land records.
Reviewing the land records for Pryor, Willis, and William VESS/VEST in White County, Tennessee, they all mention having property on the “south-side” of Caney Fork (mountain side). In 1840, the south-side of Caney Fork became Van Buren County, Tennessee.
Peter VEST is listed on the 1820 and 1830 census for White County, Tennessee. There are no VESS/VEST families listed thereafter; probably due to the county change in 1840. A William R. VEST is listed on the 1840 census for Van Buren County, Tennessee (below), living with the DODSON family and a SPARKMAN.
According to a previous post, Willie Vess: Interesting New Discovery, I discovered a land record between “Willie” VESS and Zachariah SIMMONS. I also discovered a marriage record between a William DODSON and a MARTHA VEST. So, there was a VESS/VEST presence in the area known as Sparkmantown.
Interestingly, I have a lot of Autosomal DNA matches (shared matches with my VESS family) with descendants of the SIMMON family in White County, TN, suggesting a possible connection to White County, Tennessee; however, I am not sure where the connection is, for that the family trees are incomplete.
I wonder if the Peter VESS in White County, Tennessee in 1830, could be the same Peter VESS in Franklin County, Alabama in 1840?
John P. Vess: Franklin County, Alabama Thoughts
We know Willis VESS is part of our VESS family, because of Y-DNA testing. According to my DNA results, I share DNA matches with the descendants of Henry Russell VESS (son of Willis Vess), John P. VESS (brother of Willis Vess), John Jackson VESS (son of Willis Vess), and Mary Elizabeth VESS (daughter of Willis Vess). Those descendants also appear to share DNA matches with other Peter VESS (of Rutherford County, North Carolina) descendants; however, not all of them; which could just be due to a variation of genes or they are just too distant on the family tree to detect.
John P. VESS intrigues me, because I am not quite sure where he came from… he is significantly younger than Willis VESS and doesn’t appear to come into existence until the 1860 census. Also, his census records, regarding birth, alternate between North Carolina and Tennessee.
According to the 1880 census, he was born in Tennessee and that his parents were born in North Carolina, which falls in line with Pryor and William VESS/VEST moving from Wilkes County, North Carolina to White County, Tennessee. He is also married to Lousia F. SIMMONS at this time, who appears to be a descendant of the SIMMONS family from White County, Tennessee (but that could just be coincidence).
If he didn’t come from White County, Tennessee VESS/VEST family, could he be John VESS, the son of Peter VESS in Rutherford County, North Carolina?
In 1854, Peter’s son, John VESS, divorced his wife Elizabeth TAYLOR. The Petition for Divorce was announced in the newspaper stating he was an out-of-state resident; but where did he go?
John VESS in Rutherford County, North Carolina, born 1820, who married Elizabeth TAYLOR, had his first child in 1841 (Sarah Vess who married Jackson Pressely). The John VESS in Franklin County, Alabama, born in 1822, who married Sarah WHITLOCK, appears to have had his first child in 1853 (at the age of 31). That seems a bit unusual, considering men usually started families in their 20’s. But again, census records are notorious for being inaccurate.
Nathaniel Vess: Interesting Coincidences
After an update on Ancestry.com, I no longer have DNA matches with Nathaniel Vess (South Carolina line) or Jonathan Vess (Texas line) anymore. If they are related to our VESS family, they are too distant to detect on Autosomal DNA testing; suggesting they were likely cousins or half-siblings of Willis and Peter VESS. According to oral traditions, Peter and Nathaniel VESS were supposedly half-siblings.
Looking at the 1830 census record for Nathaniel VESS in Rutherford County, North Carolina, we see Nathaniel with his father-in-law John BELLEW.
I discovered that the BELLEW and GOSNELL families settled in Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina. I strongly believe Nathaniel VESS is from there too.
Looking back at the 1830 census (above), I noticed a CONSTANT PLUMLY (PLUMLEY). Interestingly, the VESS/VEST family in White County, Tennessee has an early land record adjoining property with a PLUMLEY family on Caney Fork (below). Further research reveals the two PLUMLEY’S are related…
Constant PLUMLEY is the son of William PLUMLEY and Hester O’NEAL. In 1790, William PLUMLEY lived in Burke County, North Carolina, before moving south to South Carolina. His son, Issac PLUMLEY, Constant’s brother, settled in White County, Tennessee on Caney Fork. According to family trees, William PLUMLEY died in Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina in 1830.
What is even more interesting, is that according to the 1830 census for Greenville, South Carolina, we have a Polly VESS (below). Could she be related to Nathaniel Vess?
As for family stories go, which are not always accurate, I was told a family story about our VESS family having once respected an O’NEAL outlaw. Could Hester O’NEAL, wife of William PLUMLEY have been part of that O’NEAL family?
Did Constant PLUMLEY move to Rutherford County, North Carolina with Nathaniel VESS and John BELLEW from Glassy Mountain, Greenville, South Carolina in 1830? And is there a PLUMLEY – VESS connection?
Pryor Vest: Marion County, Tennessee
Lastly, I discovered a new land record for Pryor VEST; this time in Marion County, Tennessee in 1830.
I am not sure if this is the same Pryor VEST as the one in Wilkes County, NC and White County, TN. He doesn’t appear on any census records for any of the locations he has land records and he appears to have land in numerous counties, not just White County, TN. Why is he so elusive?
Research is Slow, but Appears Steady
Research is slow, mostly due to the lack of available records; however, I do feel we are gaining some traction in uncovering the mysteries of the VESS/ VEST family.
I may not be able to provide any solid conclusions, but I will do my best to post as much as possible to help others who are working on the same research.
Oral tradition states that Peter VESS of Rutherford County, North Carolina married Catherine “Katie” COOK, but was that her real maiden name?
Peter and Catherine VESS are genealogical brick walls. They appear out of nowhere as early as 1820 on census in Rutherford County, North Carolina. The only record with them together is an 1829-1836 church list from Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. We have yet to discover any documents of Catherine’s maiden name, making it difficult to locate her parents.
However, recent DNA evidence has revealed that her maiden name may actually be CROOK.
The Lack of Evidence For COOK
We’ve had a theory, for a long time now, that COOK may not be Catherine’s real maiden name.
Despite the numerous COOK families in North Carolina, autosomal DNA barely produces any matches. Personally, the only COOK’s I’ve ever encountered in my autosomal DNA matches are COOKS assigned to my maternal side.
I’ve explored the 3 different COOK families passing through Rutherford County, NC: The Ephriam Cook line, James Cook line, and the later Loney Cook line; none of which have records or family trees with a Catherine “Katie” Cook.
In 2021, DNA evidence suggested we may have a Sparks-Rose maternal ancestor on the Vess line; but we aren’t sure which side of the family: Peter’s or Catherine’s. Since the early Sparks-Rose family predominately lived in Wilkes County, NC, it is probably best to say the connection might be on Peter’s side; especially, after discovering a VESS/VEST family in Wilkes County, NC.
So, that leaves us back to square one, until just recently…
DNA Evidence For CROOK
Vincent Vess, who uses DNA triangulation methods to try to locate earlier ancestors, has made a fascinating new discovery!
Through extensive work, he has discovered a genetic connection to the CROOK families of Rutherford County and Buncombe County, North Carolina.
His work led him to a John and Andrew CROOK. Adding this family to Catherine Katie’s Cook’s line in Ancestry.com, updated his Thruline matches revealing a bunch of matching DNA cousins, most of which are descendants of Zephaniah Crook and his sister Mary Polly Crook; suggesting that Catherine “Katie” Cook’s parents are JOHN CROOK and RACHEL HAYNES.
Exploring the CROOK family records, Vince made an intriguing observation, noticing the names within the CROOK family are the same names seen in the PETER VESS family: ANDREW, ZEPHANIAH, RACHEL, JASPER, and JOHN.
I did not come up in Vince’s shared DNA matches he used to discover the CROOK lineage, likely because I am too distant to detect (we’re already distant cousins). At first, my Thrulines showed no DNA matches to the Crook family after adding them to my tree. However, today, my Thrulines now show 1 DNA match with a descendant of Zephaniah Crook. Interestingly, all, and I do mean all, their shared DNA matches are descendants of Andrew Logan Vess, lineages from both wives Halford and Connor, strongly suggesting a connection with an early ancestor of Andrew Logan Vess. The Willis Vess lines would not show up, because Catherine married Peter Vess.
So, these DNA results seem very promising.
According to Ancestry.com, I have discovered a couple of ancestry trees for John Crook and Rachel Haynes, listing a Catherine Katie CROOK as their daughter, born in 1804, having lived in Bill’s Creek, and died after 1850- no marriage or childrenare listed. I find this super intriguing, as the information is not only oddly similar to our Catherine Katie COOK but there are no records of VESS. So, I am wondering, if their Catherine Katie CROOK is our Catherine Katie COOK??
The CROOK & HAYNES Family
John Crook married Rachel Haynes, the daughter of William Haynes. According to the book, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu, William Haynes was their first pastor.
The Haynes family owned land near Bill’s Creek, specifically, on Cove Creek and Knob’s Creek. Looking at the 1820 census for Peter Vess, I concluded that he lived on Knobs Creek, just wasn’t sure which one as there are 2 located in the Broad River Basin. In 1850, without Peter, Catherine is back in the Bill’s Creek area.
In 1804, a John Crook, presumably the father of Catherine, obtained land on Cove Creek joining the Haynes line in Rutherford County, NC. William Haynes had land on Cove Creek near Broad River, issued in 1794, in between Knobs Creek and Bill’s Creek.
In Buncombe County, NC, we have an Andrew Crook who obtained land on Gap Creek in 1804. John Crook later obtained land in Buncombe County, NC, joining land with his son Zephaniah Crook. Interestingly, Buncombe County, NC is where Peter and Catherine’s youngest children went to live after their death. They are seen on census with Dempsey Sumner, who has land on Cane Creek. Gap and Cane Creek connect.
The Crook family has a history of having been in Rowan County, NC on Lick and Tom’s Creek. There appears to be 2 John Crooks in Rowan County, one that went to White County, TN with the GOOLSBY family and one who went to Rutherford County, NC and then Buncombe County, NC. Each are intriguing, because we find VESS in both locations.
Further research is needed, of course, but I am super excited we have a new lead to Vess family history!
Last year, research was slow and eventually came to a halt due to an extremely hectic schedule.
I just now realized that my research ended with a major genealogy cliff-hanger regarding the recently discovered Vess family in Wilkes County, North Carolina! I’ve received a lot of new information that I am super excited to share!
I’ve just recently posted an exciting update in the sidebar regarding Y-DNA for the Travers family and the (R1a) Vess families of North Carolina and Alabama!
Please bare with me as I work on updating the website with new information and resources this month.
I am looking forward to a new year of amazing discoveries!
I attended the North Carolina Genealogical Society Webinar yesterday about DEEDS hosted by David M. McCorkle who created nclandgrants.com. It was a very insightful Webinar that I wish was longer, because I learned so much!
After the Webinar, it took me less than 5 minutes to unearth a new record for Peter Vess! Below is an 1846 Deed Record that is forcing to me re-write Peter’s timeline.
The Deed record has Peter and Josiah Vess as the Grantors and Joseph Souther as the Grantee.
“This the 21st of December 1846 State of North Carolina Rutherford County
Know all men by [illegible] presents that whereas Joseph Souther stands Peter Vests [illegible] for the prosecution of a suit in the Superior Court of our County [cut off] [illegible] Thomas Young deceased Executor or administrator William Young [cut off] [illegible] And Now Know Ye that in order to save harmless the said Souther [illegible] in said Suit and to secure said dee and for the further consideration of the [cut off] [illegible] dollars to us Peter Vess and Joseph Vess in hand paid by Joseph Souther [cut off] [illegible]and payment whereof we do hereby acknowledge have bargained sold [cut off] [illegible] conveyed and confirmed and by these presents do bargain [illegible] alien convey and [illegible] unto the said Joseph Souther his heirs and [illegible] forever the following [cut off[ [illegible] parcel of land situated lying and being in the county and state [cut off] [illegible] including the place on which the said Peter Vest now resides on the waters [cut off] [illegible] creek begining on a Red oak on the North rock of [Fills Creek] thru 18 [cut off] [illegible] a Red oak thru North 20 poles to a Black oak in a hollow thru West 154 poles to a stake on a line of a 25 acre [illegible] [illegible][illegible] it South 15 [cut off] 30 poles to [illegible] on the side of a hill corner of the 25 acres [illegible] [cut off] out to west 22 poles to a stake on the top of a ridge then South to [illegible] Whiteoak then 168 poles to a white oak on the line of the [illegible] to the beginning [illegible] one hundred and nine acres to be the [illegible] [cut off] less together with all and singular the rights members [illegible] [illegible] [illegible] and appurtenances to the said [illegible’ belonging or in any [cut off] [illegible] appertaining to have and to hold with appurtenances unto the said Joseph his heirs and [illegible] forever And we the said Peter Vest and Josiah vest [cut off] [illegible] [illegible] herby [illegible][illegible]our heirs Executor administrators to warrant [cut off] [illegible] defend the aforesaid land and tenements unto the said Joseph Souther [cut off] heirs and [illegible] forever provided always nevertheless and ur us the [cut off] [illegible] and meaning of these presents that if the said Peter Vest shall and [cut off] [illegible] and [illegible] have harmless the said Joseph Souther as his security in said [cut off] [illegible] and that [illegible] am [illegible] pay the said fifty dollars to the said Jospeh Souther in that ease this deed shall [illegible’ determine and become absolutely null and [cut off] [illegible] otherwise to remain in full [illegible] and effect. in Testimony whereof [cut off] [illegible] unto [illegible] hands [illegible] seals this the 14th day of November 1846.
The [illegible] after signing John Vess
his X mark Josiah Vests Peter Vests
State of North Carolina Rutherford County
Fall Court 1846 No 11 Josiah Vess and Peter Vess acknowledge in open court the Execution of the above deed it is therefore records and ordered to be registered.
G. E. Logan“
Familysearch.org Deed Book 45 Minutes, Pleas, and Quarter Sessions Familysearch.org
This changes my timeline for Peter Vess. Previously, he was nowhere to be found after 1840 with Catherine Vess rejoining Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in 1844 without him, as if he had passed away. But, here he is on a deed record that states this is land in which Peter Vess “now resides,” which I am assuming means he is still alive in 1846.
It appears that he owed a debt that he could not pay and gave his land to Joseph Souther to clear his debt. It is interesting to note that his sons, John, Josiah, Andrew, and Alfred joined Bill’s Creek Baptist Church at this time. But, if Peter is still alive, what happened to him? Why did he not return to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Catherine and his sons?
Also, I do not know who Joseph Souther is, except that him and his family were dismissed from Bill’s Creek Baptist Church prior to 1830. I wonder if there is any relation to Joshua Souther who later married the wife of John Vess (Elizabeth Taylor)?
I am excited to announce that Vess Genealogy has expanded to a Vess Family Research Site. Of course, it is still a work in progress as I continue to improve the website with new features and more information.
Vess genealogy is challenging to research, because of its unique name in which DNA has interestingly revealed is a name shared by several different unrelated families. I would like to expand the Vess Genealogy website to help other VESS families sort out their lineages and uncover their origins.
This is a monumental task in which will require the help other researchers who are also interested in the VESS name.
While my research blog will continue, I am still working on adding new pages that will provide researchers with current information that can be found in one spot rather than having to collect information from numerous blog posts.
I am still working on creating PDF files for specific lineages and I would like to add family charts.
Further posts will have an open comment section and I am looking into creating an active Discussion Forum (that part will take time to create though) to encourage further collaboration among researchers.
The Vess Family DNA Project is still active and we continue to encourage male descendants to participate in Y-DNA testing.
Furthermore, I am currently working on a VESS Genealogy E-book for the Peter and Willis Vess lines.
I absoultely look forward to working with you to help uncover the mysteries of the VESS family!
The NEW YEAR is upon us and we have some very promising leads to get us started!
1.Vess Family of Patrick County, VA Recently we discovered that Samuel, William, and Peter Vess owned land in Patrick County, Virginia and that Samuel Vess has been in the area (Henry County) since 1782. Who is this VESS family?
2. DNA Triangulation DNA has matched the descendants of Peter and Willis Vess to possibly some families in Wilkes County, North Carolina.
a. Sparks Family b. Ephraim Pennington (I found him in Wilkes County, NC!) *DNA matches still being explored c. Hodges Family
3. Maps, Maps, and History! History and maps can teach us so much!
Did you know the Great Wagon Road crossed the North Mayo River where Samuel, William, and Peter Vess owned land in Patrick County, Virginia or that early established residents of Wilkes County, North Carolina were forced to sell their land and venture off to the west and south due to conflict?
The Sparks family settled on Hunting Creek but their property was on the border of Wilkes and Surry (now Yadkin) county. The Yadkin River was an important waterway used to travel south, as the Yadkin River turns into the PeeDee River going right through Anson and Montgomery Counties (Travis, Sugg, Pennington, and Bellew families – just to name a few).
4. William Vest of Wilkes County, North Carolina We have William Vest listed near Thomas Hodges in Wilkes County, VA. The family bio for Thomas Hodges mentions he was married in Virginia to Nancy Cottrell, but does not specify where, so I am not sure, if Thomas Hodges is related to the Hodges in Franklin County, VA that matches closely with Peter and Willis Vess. Interestingly, Cottrell is a surname that comes up frequently in my Autosomal DNA list (6-8 generations back) matching other VESS relatives – possibly a connection via COX.
In the same area (New River), per land records, is the Ephraim Pennington family (New River Pasture Branch). Unfortunately, this is a Pennington family that consists of numerous generations with the “Ephraim” name (I think 5). Further investigation is needed.
5. Whitlocks I’ve found the Whitlock’s in the Surry/Stokes County area. Some near Samuel, William, and Peter Vess of Patrick County, VA via Snow Creek (Stokes Co), near Bellew’s Creek and one in Patrick County, VA. Also, another on Hunting Creek near the Sparks family.
The Whitlock’s appear to have early connections with a Saunder family, per a probate record for Thomas Christmas (great-grandfather of Talitha Whitlock, wife of Willis Vess). We have a Saunders family in Wilkes County, VA near the Whitlock and Pennington families and early court records for Henry/Patrick County mention Col. Peter Saunders (Are there connections?).
When and where did the VESS family meet the Whitlock family? Did the Willis Vess line travel through Tennessee or South Carolina through Georgia? Did you know there is a Whitlock family in Union County, South Carolina who was also part of Stephen F. Austin’s 300 in the Republic of Texas? Did you know there is also a Willis family in Patrick County, Virginia?
Are there connections? Are we getting closer to the truth or just chasing more ghosts?
Wishing everyone a great NEW YEAR and Happy Genealogy trails!
My previous post was extensively long with so many thoughts I just had to get out of my brain. Just to clarify, I was not making any conclusions nor suggesting we are related to the BEST or VICE families. However, I was trying to point out how extremely intriguing it is that Peter and Nathan Vess are in the center of these families, yet seem to lack a solid family connection with any of them. Seems a bit odd.
I am conflicted. My gut at the moment is telling me there is a Wilkes County, NC connection, but my gut is also telling me, there is a Charles Travers connection too. However, just because the VESS family is closely related to the TRAVERS family (DNA suggesting we are descendants of TRAVERS), doesn’t mean, we split from the TRAVERS family in the United States. The VESS family could have likely spilt away from the TRAVERS line long before they crossed the Atlantic.
It is absolutely mind boggling. I feel like the truth is near, yet still very far from reach.
I am very excited about JOHN BESS/BEAS in South Carolina. I am even more excited to discover he is completely separate from the John VICE family on the 1810 census. However, research suggests John Bess, neighbors of Samuel Dunaway, is related to Boston Best (Jerg SebastianBosch). Yet, further research reveals that something is just not right…
Thinking Aloud…
Peter and Willis Vess, born in North Carolina, are proven to be genetically related to the same VESS family; however, they are found states apart from each other.
Nearby in White County, Tennessee are records of a Peter, William, and Willis Vess, with the assumption that Peter and William maybe the same Peter and William from Patrick County, Virginia.
Willis Vess supposedly has a brother named John Peter Vess, who was born in Tennessee in 1822. These findings, if related, suggest a migration from Patrick County, VA to Franklin County, Alabama; however, it doesn’t explain Peter and Nathaniel Vess in the Carolinas, unless the VESS family split apart in Wilkes County, North Carolina where we find record of William Vess.
Peter Vess in North Carolina is 31 years older than John Peter Vess in Franklin County, Alabama and he is 19 years older than Willis Vess (Alabama), but DNA suggests that Peter is more closely related to Willis Vess than he is to Nathaniel Vess, even though Nathaniel Vess lives closer to Peter. Is this due to lack of DNA testers, Nathaniel being a half-brother (more distant), or is Nathaniel Vess not related at all? Matching descendants of both Peter and Willis Vess appear on autosomal DNA tests, which suggests there is a close connection 6-8 generations back, either as brothers or 1st cousins.
Even descendants of John Peter Vess appear on autosomal DNA tests, but I can’t help but wonder, if maybe he is misplaced on the family tree. If records of Willis Vess in White County, Tennessee is Willis Vess of Franklin County, Alabama, then perhaps it isn’t too much of a stretch to wonder if John Peter Vess (who married a Whitlock) is the son of Willis Vess.
However, the families we are following from Patrick County, VA to Franklin County, Alabama is missing a JOHN VESS! According to Anna Popejoy, the father of Willis Vess is John Vess and he settled in the Foxtrap area of Franklin County, Alabama in 1819. Peter’s land record in 1831, suggests an older John Vess (perhaps a father or brother). And, according to the Nathaniel Vess line, they are related to Jonathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron (married in Patrick County, VA) who settled in the Republic of Texas in the 1820’s (clearly not the same John Vess as Foxtrap).
Jonathan William Vess could have connections to South Carolina, for that there are records of James Heron having property near Peter and William Vess in Patrick County, VA as well as property in Abbeville County, South Carolina. Perhaps there are two different James Heron families, but we also know that many of the families in South Carolina settled in Franklin County, Alabama.
We also have records of James Heron having property next to a mysterious Vess family in Tazewell County, Virginia (not too far from the VESS/VEST family in Rockbridge, VA and not to far from the VICE family across the Cumberland Gap in Kentucky and a Henry Vice in Washington County, VA.) Also, in this area in Virginia is the WHITE family that Elizabeth Vess, wife of Jonathan Vess, married after Jonathan’s death in Texas.
We also have a Samuel Vess associated with Peter Vess in Patrick County, Virginia. Samuel Vess seems to be connected with the Vess family in Rockbridge County, VA – via Hiram Vess. Are there two Samuel Vess families in Virginia?
Then, if we take a look at South Carolina, we have a John VICE, John BESS, a mysterious Henry and James Vist, and the BEST family. Mixed in between both Virginia and South Carolina are the VOSS families.
Haplogroups – Y DNA
Vess and Travers Families -Haplogroup R1a
Peter and Willis Vess are descendants of the TRAVERS family from Lancashire, England (Haplogroup R1a). Unfortunately, there is a huge gap in our lineage between 1650 (estimated date as to when we split from one known Travers family) to 1791 (birth of Peter Vess). At some point, in between, our lineage took on the VESS name, which may have evolved from TRAVESS (Travis).
The VESS name is modernly new and research strongly supports it is a surname that originated in America. Statistics today, reveal that the VESS surname is predominately found in the United States and the name is greatly linked to the Peter and Nathaniel Vess families of North Carolina. The TRAVIS name evolved from the TRAVERS family from Ireland (who settled in the Carolina’s) and perhaps some from England (who settled in Dorchester, Maryland). At this time, we know that the Peter Vess line (descendants of Travers) broke apart from the Travers family in Maryland sometime prior to 1650 in England. However, Y-DNA appears to confirm that the England Travers and Ireland Travers are of the same family. The question that remains, is which line did Peter and Willis Vess descend from?
Our family story states that Peter, Jonathan, and Nathaniel Vess came from Ireland, which would lead us to assume we may have connections with the Travers / Travis family in the Carolinas, for that they are descendants of the Travers family from Ireland (Robert Travers). But, if we are related to Peter and William Vess in Patrick County, VA, could we have come from an unknown Travers in Maryland, who may have Ireland roots, rather than English roots like the known Travers in Dorchester, Maryland? Many families from Maryland traveled the Great Wagon Road down through the Virginia counties we find a mix of VESS, VEST, and VICE families.
VOSS/ VAUX/ VASS Families – Haplogroup Unknown
We do have a John VOSS documented in Caroline County, Maryland, next to Dorchester, Maryland (he seems a bit out of place). *Note: Jarvis Willis in Tennessee has land along the same river as Peter and William Vess in White County, TN and his family comes from Caroline County, Maryland. The Sparks family found in Wilkes County, NC and Rutherford County, NC also come from Caroline County, Maryland.
Near Maryland in Virginia we have the Robert Vaux family (descendants of the ancient De Vallibus family). We do not know what Haplogroup they belong to.
Further south in Virginia, we have records of a John Voss, who has some descendants that are documented to settle in South Carolina via Joseph VOSS. The son of Joseph Voss, William Voss, married Elizabeth ORR in Meckenlenburg County, NC and they settled Lawerence County, Tennessee (just above Franklin County, Alabama). This VOSS family is shown to be related to a Henry Voss, who left Virginia having owed a lot of debt to a neighbor. Early records only show a BASS family; however, most recently, I’ve discovered an early HENRY BESS record in South Carolina. Also note, that the 1810 census for Spartanburg County, SC has a Henry VIST listed, next to a James Vist.
It is speculated that the VOSS and VASS families are related. The VASS family is related to Vincent VASS who settled on the North Carolina coast (having spent time in Stokes County, NC). The VASS family is located geographically close to the Travers family from Ireland; however, no correlations have been found. They also seem to intertwine with the VOSS family who are also found in Casewell County, North Carolina, where John VICE and Frances Roebuck of South Carolina married and where we find Greenbury Voss/Vess.
According to researchers, the origins of the VOSS and VASS families are unknown. It is supsected that they are related to the VAUX family, but that has yet to be confirmed, nor are there any active DNA projects that reveal their Haplogroup.
Vice Family – Haplogroup Unknown As mentioned earlier, one of the Vice families are found in Casewell County, NC (where we have a mix of VOSS and VASS families). The Vice family Haplogroup is unknown, but they are interestingly found near the VESS family of Rockbridge County, VA and the many families of interest associated with Peter and Nathaniel Vess in the Carolinas.
According to their family story, their earliest known ancestor is John Vessey from Frederick County, Virginia.
Mysterious VESS Haplogroup R1b A recent Vess family whose records go back to Tazewell County, VA (1850) reveal themselves to be Haplogroup R1b. According to researchers, their earliest known ancestor for this Vess family maybe a “Henry Vess,” who seems to have connections with Patrick County, VA. In my opinion, based on recent research, is that he maybe he is related to Henry VICE, who I found living in between Patrick County, VA and Tazewell County, VA.
Vess family of Rockbridge- Haplogroup Unknown I was informed that the Vess family of Rockbridge may be descendants of the WEST family. The West family’s Haplogroup is R1b. However, the Rockbridge VESS/VEST family is related to Samuel Vess/Vest. Again, is this the same Samuel Vess associated with Peter Vess in Patrick County, Virginia?
Also in Rockbridge, I have found that the VICE and VEST families having passed through. Are they related?
VEST Family- Haplogroup I
Y-DNA testing has confirmed that Peter and Willis Vess are not related to William Tunwell Vest of Stokes County, North Carolina. William Tunwell Vest is a descendant of John Daniel Vest of Chesterfield County, Virginia and their Haplogroup is I, drastically different than our VESS Haplogroup R1a.
BASS Family – Descendants of Native Americans We can rule out a BASS family connection. They are Native American with lineages originating from Norfolk, Virginia. This doesn’t mean we should disregard records with the BASS name for that VESS records could easily be misspelled as BASS.
BEST / BOSCH Family North Carolina- Haplogroup Unknown The Best family of Lincoln County, North Carolina is very well documented. Records can be traced all the way back to the boat they arrived on to America and they arrived with the Ecker family. Again, this doesn’t we should disregard records with the BEST name, for that VESS records could easily be misspelled at BEST – even today, the VESS name is often mistaken as BEST (I know from personal experience).
Interestingly, I have discovered more BEST families in North Carolina who do not seem to be related to the Sebastian Best, yet found closely near the wandering VOSS families.
DUNAWAY
This is the record (below) that sparked my gears to turn! Nathaniel Vice in Kentucky married Sarah DUNAWAY.
As per my previous post on John Bess, he appears to be connected with Samuel Dunaway. He is listed near Samuel Dunaway on census records, Dunaway is listed on his 1810 land record, and he signed as a witness on Samuel Dunaway’s will in South Carolina.
Records show that Samuel Dunaway and John Bess lived on Thicketty Creek, which is quite distant from the VICE family on Enroee River. According to the book, Tryon County, North Carolina Minutes of the court of Pleas and Quarter Sessions 1769-1799, Samuel Dunaway Sr. was a constable. Thicketty Creek area was also once part of Tryon County.
However, John BESS and the John VICE families are separate families, confirmed by the 1810 census (showing John VICE and his sons, Nathaniel, George, and John Roebuck Vice together) and John Bess near Dunaway and Henry Pettit. Note: Peter is on census listed with Henry Pettit in 1820 Rutherford County, NC. It is documented that Henry Pettit is from South Carolina (son of Joshua Pettit).
Yet, we have Nathaniel Vice in Kentucky married to a Dunaway. Is there a connection? Also, the father of Nathaniel Vice in Kentucky is said to be NATHANIEL CAMP VICE.
This is interesting, because the CAMP family, traveled down from Frederick County, VA (where Nathaniel Vice is from) and settled in Rutherford County, North Carolina on Island Ford – just a few miles away from Sandy Run. In fact, Benjamin Camp has land on Sandy Run (Tyron County). Sandy Run is where we find Henry Pettit and Peter Vess in 1820, in addition to long time residents: Bridges, Young, Webb, Logan, Sparks, Hambrick, and Willis families. Also note, that Thicketty Creek is not too far from Sandy Run.
BUT, the BEST family throws in a monkey wrench, for that some family trees claim that JOHN BESS of Spartanburg County, South Carolina is John Best or some say Jacob Best, son of Boston Best. And, the 1790 census record, shows a connection: Here we have Samuel Dunaway with Boston Best, Henry Pettit, and Joshua Pettit.
This is likely Boston Best JR., because Boston Sr. is in Lincoln County, NC in 1790, near the Gosnell family. Gosnell is connected to Nathaniel Vess.
Something Not Right
Now, here is where something doesn’t seem right. The family trees of John Bess of Spartanburg County, South Carolina are not consistent. John Bess (Jr) born in 1815 settled in Warren County, Tennessee. This John Bess is listed as the son of either John Bess Sr. (son of Boston Best) or John Bess Sr. (son of Thomas Hobbs). I do not know who Thomas Hobbs is.
From my perspective, John Best, son of Boston Best Sr. died in Lincoln County. He is shown on the 1790 census with Boston Best Sr. and his brother Jacob Best. So, it is unlikely that John Bess is John/Jacob Best, son of Boston Best Sr. However, Boston Jr. appears to be in Spartanburg County, SC in 1790 (away from his family in Lincoln County, NC).
Boston Best Jr. could of had a son named John Best, but is he John BESS that went to Warren County, TN. According to the HENNESSEE Family webpage, John Bess of Spartanburg County, SC (b. 1783) married Lucinda Kimberlin. I do not know when they moved to Tennessee, but their youngest son is noted to have been born in Tennessee in 1817.
John Bess of Spartanburg County, SC who is associated with the Dunaway family on census, appears to have been born between 1766-1784. He obtained land on Thicketty Creek in 1810 and is listed on Dunaway’s will dated 1815. So, John Bess could certainly be the John Bess who went to Warren County, Tennessee. So perhaps, this John Bess is the son of Boston Best Jr. Unfortunately, there is very little documentation on Boston Best Jr.
How Does VESS Fit In?
What boggles my brain the most is how Peter and Nathan Vess are smack dab in the middle! Is Nathan Vess a BESS, with BOSCH origins? If anything, the Gosnell-Best connection seems to fit very well for him. Is Nathan part of our of VESS family story, because he is geographically close to Peter? Is Peter related to Nathan via a VICE – CAMP- DUNAWAY connection on Sandy Run?? Which may also explain a distant genetic connection.
Why does Fredrick BASS keep popping up all over the place too – in Wilkes County, NC and Anson County, NC near Bellew, Sparks, Rose, and Sugg families, near Charles Travers. Is Frederick Bass the son of Boston Best known as Frederick Best???
The Suggs family moved from Anson County, NC to Franklin County, Alabama near Willis Vess. They were listed as neighbors of Charles Travers in Anson County (when it was Mecklenburg- making them neighbors of BEST family), and according to Charles’ family bio, there is mention of a connection with David Benson. David Benson is shown on census with the Gosnell and Bellew families in South Carolina (1790). Also, it is suspected that Charles Travers is a descendant of Robert Travers from Ireland.
Is there a connection and if so, how is it all connected???
I am very excited to have found a new record for Peter Vess!
1838 Rutherford County, NC Court Minutes
In the Fall of 1838, Peter Vess was selected as a Juror for next January; however, later records indicate he failed to appear.
Unraveling Peter and Catherine’s Past
Many sources say Peter Vess died a pauper and is buried in Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, but is that true?
Peter obtained land in 1831 on Cedar Creek in the Broad River Township of Rutherford County, North Carolina (below). According to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu, Peter and Catherine were members until 1836.
The last record I discovered of Peter Vess was a church record dated 1838 for Bethlehem Baptist Church in Burke County, which explains what happened to them after 1836.
Bethlehem Baptist Church is located in today’s McDowell County (below), not far from Peter’s property on Cedar Creek in the Broad River Township of Rutherford County, NC. McDowell County did not exist until 1842 and Broad River Township area didn’t become part of McDowell County until 1844. So, it makes sense that we find Peter in two different places in 1838.
With Peter being a resident of Rutherford County, NC (1840 census), but yet a member of Bethlehem Baptist Church across the county border in Burke/McDowell County, NC, certainly makes it difficult to find records on him.
According to Helen M. Lu, Catherine Vess came back to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in October 1844 without Peter. We can probably accurately conclude that Peter had died and if so, records of his death would be floating between Rutherford and McDowell Counties, because his property in Broad River Township of Rutherford County, became part of McDowell County in 1844!
So the question is, which county settled his estate?? If Catherine moved back to Bill’s Creek in 1844 (1850 census), his property must have been sold and if so, to who?
Zilla Vess, wife of Josiah Vess (son of Peter), is the only VESS buried in Bill’s Creek Baptist Church cemetery (per church cemetery records) and recent research suggests the Vess family (Catherine and her younger children) may have moved to Buncombe County, NC after 1850. To be honest, I think Peter is buried in McDowell County whose tombstone is likely too deteriorated to recognize.
In addition, I do not think Catherine died in Rutherford County either. Despite her last record showing her in Bill’s Creek, her younger children are shown on the 1860 census record living with Dempsey Sumners in Buncombe County, NC. Dempsey Sumners has spent his entire life in Buncombe County, so the only way I can assume he ended up with the VESS children is if Catherine had moved to Buncombe County in between 1850-1860.
I am not sure if Dempsey Sumners is kin, but his mother is Elizabeth Grace Davis. I am told that the Davis and Vess families are very close. Andrew Logan Vess is buried in Davistown Cemetery, which originally was a private Davis family cemetery.
I still do not know how the Davis and Vess families are considered close. My VESS family tree only has 1 DAVIS relative (Dicie Augustus Davis) and it doesn’t look like her family has any connection with Elizabeth Grace Davis. However, the Davis family that Nathaniel Vess line married into is related to Elizabeth Grace Davis – is there a connection?
Vess Genealogy 