Author: J. V.

Untangling Virginia’s VEST Families

/ J. V. / 1 Comment

We so badly want to connect our VESS family to William Tunwell VEST of Stokes County, North Carolina; mostly, because it seems to be the only thing that makes the most sense!

While researching Willis Vess in Alabama, I took a slight detour back to the VEST family of Virginia, because I discovered a VEST family 2 counties east of Willis Vess taunting me with records as early as 1818. I had to figure out who they were.

Long story short, I searched for every early VEST record I could find in Virginia and started plotting them on a map. Then, with the help of Y-DNA information provided by a fellow researcher, I started the process of elimination. The final results surprisingly revealed another VEST / VESS family!

Why Does William Tunwell Vest Seem Like A Connection?

Despite having BEST, VOSS, and VASS families also in North Carolina to consider, I was hoping there was a connection with William Tunwell VEST; mostly, because he makes the most sense for the time, place, and names.

Peter Vess
Peter Vess of Rutherford County, NC was born between 1791-1794 in North Carolina and most of his records are found under the “VEST” surname; except for the 1830 census (Voss) and his 1831 land record (Vess).

After his death sometime before 1844, the “VEST” surname continued with his wife Catherine and their sons, as shown in Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu. It wasn’t until 1849, when the “Vess” surname really stuck, in both census and church records. Therefore, it is easy to assume that Peter maybe connected to the VEST family.

We were even 100% confident that we had discovered his connection with the VEST family when we found a Surry County War of 1812-1814 record listing a “Peter VEST.” Not only is Surry County right next to Stokes County in North Carolina, but also the names of the other soldiers listed with Peter VEST seem to have connections with the grandchildren of William Tunwell VEST through his son Isham VEST. Because there doesn’t appear to be any VEST families in Surry County, the VEST family next door (in Stokes County) seems like a good fit.

A possible connection to William Tunwell VEST became even more enticing when records for Peter Vess suggested his father may have been named John Vess (1831 Rutherford Co. land grant record). According to the Last Will and Testament of William Tunwell VEST (1812), he just so happens to have a son named John VEST!

Willis Vess
William Tunwell Vest also seems like a potential ancestor to Willis Vess.

Willis Vess was born in North Carolina (abt) 1810, supposedly to “John Vess and Maragaret Vaughn” who are said to have also been born in North Carolina. Because William Tunwell VEST had a son named John VEST, it appeared there could be a connection; however, John VEST married Eliza RAY (not Margaret Vaughn). Of course, John could have been married twice, but records show us that John VEST (despite who he was married to) appears to have been living in North Carolina (or Indiana-whichever source you pick) during the time that the father of Willis Vess was living in Alabama; therefore they must not be the same person.

Nathan Vess
Interestingly, there haven’t been any plausible ideas between William Tunwell Vest and Nathan Vess. Because Nathan was born in South Carolina, one could possibly conclude he is Peter’s cousin rather than his brother. So, Nathan’s lack of connection to the VEST family in Stokes County, NC never really seemed like such a big deal.

The VEST & VESS Families Are Not Related

According to information from FamilytreeDNA.com, the VEST and VESS families are not related! In fact, they don’t even share the same Haplogroup!

The descendants of John Daniel VEST (VEST family of Virginia) belong to Haplogroup-I, whereas the descendants of Willis Vess and Andrew Logan Vess (our VESS family) belong to Haplogroup- R (R1a). That’s quite a distance from each other on the Y-Haplogroup tree.


So, we can pretty much eliminate any VEST family related to John Daniel Vest as being possible ancestors, including William Tunwell VEST of Stokes County, North Carolina.

I was holding onto William Tunwell VEST for a long time, just in case; however, I eventually discovered that he is the son of John Daniel VEST.

In the Last Will and Testament of John Daniel Vest (1765) of Chesterfield County, Virginia, John names his wife “Ann Vest” (likely Charolette Ann Bakes) as well as his 7 children: “John Vest, Valentine Vest, Elizabeth Vest, James Vest, George Vest, Phillip Vest, and William Tunwell Vest.”
[Transcribed by Sandra Lake Lassen March 1993 – Ancestry.com]

By the way, I discovered the VEST family near Willis Vess in Alabama are descendants of John Daniel Vest through George Washington Vest– so, no relation to Willis Vess.

Mapping VEST Families

Instead of trying to untangle the many different branches of the VEST family, I decided it would be better to us their records to plot them all on a map. During this process, I came to discover that a lot of VEST families do seem to be descendants of John Daniel Vest and Charolette Ann Bakes. The family appears to have originated from Chesterfield and Powhatan County, VA and then migrated westward into Bedford County, then down into Franklin and Floyd Counties, before conquering the rest of the United States.

After finishing my map, two VESS/VEST families who do not seem to have any connection with the John Daniel Vest family stood out!

The Map
The counties [below] highlighted in red contain VEST records.
The counties marked with an X have records that strongly suggest a relationship with John Daniel Vest. And, the counties left, with no X, have records with both the VESS and VEST surname.

This map is not 100% accurate. It is very likely that there are areas and families I missed; especially, since documentation of these VESS-VEST families is scarce and require deep digging into Virginia archives. The purpose of this map is to see if we could identify any “separate” families, such as those using the VESS surname.

Exploring VESS/VEST Families

Rockbridge County and Patrick County, Virginia are the only two counties where I have found records with the VESS name and families whose records seem to use the VESS and VEST surname interchangeably, and interestingly, neither of them seem to have any records that suggest (at this time) they are connected to the John Daniel Vest family! So, who are they and do they have any connection to our VESS family?

VESS/VEST family of Rockbridge, Virginia

According to my ancestral DNA, I have distant DNA-relatives who are descendants of Addison Vess of Rockbridge County, Virginia through my VESS line. My project, of course, could be flawed as the connection could be distant, possibly connected between different families related to Addison Vess.

However, I used the same search method again for the VEST name and more DNA-relatives came up; all related to Vess families in Rockbridge, VA.   I did not get any DNA-relatives descending from the John Daniel Vest family.

The Vest/Vess family living in Rockbridge are found near Colliers Creek and Kerrs Creek.  Library of Congress  Looking at this map [below], there are family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Hostetter, Ailstock, Noel, Morris, and Tolly, and Armstrong.



William, Peter, & Samuel VESS/VEST of Patrick County

As mentioned in a previous post, “What We Know So Far,” we recently discovered a Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia who we have no idea (like the Rockbridge family) as to whether they are related to the VESS or VEST family (perhaps neither).

I was provided a list of land deeds for Patrick County, Virginia (1791-1801) to compare to the residents in Tryon County, North Carolina (1769-1779) to see if there was any kind of connection. Unfortunately, I did not find anything significant, for that Tryon County records are much older than the Patrick County records and it just wouldn’t make sense that families would travel so far south just to end back up North. I guess they could have, but probably unlikely during a time when families were migrating out west and down south.

The records we find in Patrick County, Virginia include a William, Peter, and a Samuel Vess (VEST/VOSS) who lived on the border of Patrick County and Henry County (as shown on the map below) in Bull Mountain, North Mayo River, and Koger Creek, just below Franklin County, Virginia. 

These records also show family surnames that I recognize from bits and pieces of my research on the Vess family: Duncan, Dodson, Willis, Watson, Reynolds, Sharp, Hooker, and Randal.



HAIRSTON & PENN Families: A Little Local History
While researching some of the families on this deed list, I discovered that the HAIRSTON and PENN families (both on the deed list) have a bit of history in the area.

George HAIRSTON built Beaver Creek Plantation which was a tobacco plantation and a very large slave-trading post in Martinsville, VA (east of Koger Creek in Henry Co.).  He served under Col. Abraham PENN who was the original owner of the land that George Hairston built his plantation on (using a royal grant).  The PENN family built “Poplar Grove” plantation in Patrick County, VA near Patrick Springs (west of North Mayo River).  And both HAIRSTON and PENN families married into the STOVALL family- all connected.  

There appears to be several plantations in the area, all of which utilized slaves and indentured servants. Indentured servants generally had a 7 year contract and in return for their service, their masters often granted them land. Looking at records on Patrick County, VA Genweb, we find deed records referred to an “Indenture,” where land was transferred to the “apprentice” after all debts and terms of their contract have been satisfied.

Jonathan William Vess of Texas: Koger Creek
According to the deed list, William Vess/Vest is shown near a Herron/ Heron family and as previously known, marriage records show Elizabeth Herron having married Johnathan William Vess in 1791 in Patrick County, Virginia. Johnathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron traveled with Stephen F. Austin from Missouri to Texas (Republic of Texas) during the 1820’s. This William Vess/Vest on the Patrick County deed list may either be Jonathan himself or perhaps his father.

Peter Vess and William Vess/Voss: North Mayo River
According to the deed list, west of Koger Creek are residents of the North Mayo River which includes Peter Vess, William Vess/Voss, Samuel Vess, William Willis, and William Sharp.

This Vess/Voss family is most interesting for that we see them with the Willis, Dodson, and Sharp families (family surnames that are also found in Franklin County, Alabama with Willis Vess).

To make things even more interesting, we found a 1785 marriage record for Peter Vess and Pugnance Vaughn in Henry County. (Henry County is next to Patrick County, and there was a time when both counties were one, called Patrick-Henry County)

Also discovered, is a 1793 Patrick County, Virginia deed record (via John DUNCAN) referencing, Peter Vess and his wife Margaret.

What is interesting about this, is that according to Anna Popejoy, the parents of Willis Vess were John Vess and Margaret Vaughn. To this day, we do not know where she got this information; however, we are now wondering, if this is them.

Perhaps their full names were John Peter Vess and Pugnance Margaret Vaughn??? Also note, that the brother of Willis Vess is supposedly “John Peter Vess,” perhaps he was a John Peter Vess Jr.?

In addition, records also show land transactions between Peter Vess and Samuel Vess via John Duncan. At the bottom of this particular deed list (with Peter and Samuel), you will also find a Whitlock family.

Are These VESS/VEST Families Related

It is plausible that the Rockbridge VESS/VEST family and the Patrick County VESS/VEST families are related to each other, for that records of the Patrick County family (earliest record 1785) come before the records of the Rockbridge family (earliest record 1818); suggesting one of the Vess members may have migrated to Rockbridge, Virginia from Patrick County, Virginia.

It has also been observed that Samuel Vess of Patrick County, Virginia disappeared before Peter and William Vess; which makes us wonder if he is (or is related to) Samuel Harvey Vess of Rockbridge, Virginia (1830 records).

We do not know if they are genetically related to the our Vess family; however, genealogical records seem to support some kind of connection.

Full Recap

  • The Vest family of Virginia and our Vess family are not related (two separate Haplogroups).
  • There is no genetic relationship between our Vess family and William Tunwell Vest in Stokes County, North Carolina.
  • Maps reveal a separate VESS/VEST family residing in Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia. It is not yet know if these two VESS/VEST families are related, but it is plausible considering the record dates.
  • We have likely discovered the families of Jonathan William Vess and Elizabeth Heron (of Republic of Texas) in Patrick County, Virginia on Koger Creek.
  • We have discovered that there is a Peter, Samuel, and William VESS/VOSS on the North Mayo River with a Willis, Sharp, and possibly a Whitlock family.
  • The area in which we find these families in Patrick County, has a history of plantations and records that suggest some of the land owners were once indentured servants.
  • Many family surnames found in both Rockbridge and Patrick County, Virginia are familiar names seen elsewhere in Vess family research; especially, regarding Peter and Willis Vess.

No definite conclusions can be made at this time; however, these new discoveries seem promising!
It appears that a new chapter in Vess Genealogy has just begun!

If you are or know someone who is a male descendant with the VESS or VEST surname, please consider participating in Y-DNA testing through FamilytreeDNA.com to help us unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!

Again, a HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who has shared their findings with me on the Vess name in effort to piece together VESS family history!
















James Elmer Vess: Wrong Time and Place

/ J. V. / Leave a comment

James Elmer Vess was born on August 18, 1897 to Pinkney Elcanhah Vess and Cora Nevada Moffitt in Old Fort, McDowell County, North Carolina. In 1915, he married Pearl Lena Cox and together they had 10 children. James died on March 31, 1957 in La Grande, Union County, Oregon.


*This post is an opinion, written from a genealogical point-of-view.

The Man Everyone Wants To Forget

I descend from a west-coast Vess line that branched away from their North Carolina roots in the early-1920’s.

When I first got into genealogy, I had no idea the Vess family had deep roots in North Carolina, let alone that we still had a lot of family living there. For all I knew, the Vess family took the scenic route from Ireland to America’s western frontier!

Nobody ever talked about family history (not much to say) and nobody wants or even likes talking about James Elmer Vess!

James Elmer Vess is a man that everyone wants to forget.
Just the mere mention of his name often abruptly ended conversations with family. Those who did talk about him, mostly the older generation, were not so keen about him. Nobody would tell me what he did or why he left North Carolina and settled all the way across the United States to Oregon, of all places.

At one point, I was told to “let dead dogs lie,” especially, dead dogs like James Elmer Vess.

Well, I say let’s dig up some old dead dogs and see what secrets they hide!

Exiled From North Carolina

I don’t know the whole story or even a fraction of the whole story, but what I’ve been told is that James Elmer Vess was “kicked” out of North Carolina by his brothers for being a “drunken bootlegger.”

Based on newspaper clippings, that totally makes sense.

James Elmer Vess was undeniably an alcoholic.
He often made the papers in La Grande, Oregon (1940’s) having been arrested for “public drunkenness.”

Newspapers.com



I’ve also been told that he wasn’t the most pleasant person in the world; likely due to alcoholism, which only solidified his poor reputation.

The demons that drove James Elmer Vess to drink will never be known, but looking more deeply into family history, we can probably identify some contributing factors…

Moonshine: A Way Of Life

North Carolina, once referred to as the “Moonshine state,” is notorious for distilled liquor, especially in the Blue Ridge Mountains.

People have been distilling liquor long before they broke ground in Jamestown, Virginia; but moonshine supposedly got its start from the Scot-Irish, who supposedly had better methods of distilling liquor. And with western North Carolina having been largely settled by the Germans and the Scot-Irish, it is kind of difficult to imagine a bunch of rugged mountain men as tea drinkers.

In North Carolina, especially, deep in the heart of backcountry, moonshine was the way of life. Farmers produced moonshine, because it was worth more than their most profitable crop and it could help pay off their debts. There was even a time when local churches were somewhat lenient about it; partially, because EVERYONE did it and dismissing members from church would likely leave a church very empty.

Interestingly, we can see this somewhat tolerance towards alcohol in Helen M. Lu’s book, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History. Many members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church (Rutherford Co. NC) got in trouble for distilling spirits or drinking too much, including Andrew Logan Vess (James great-grandfather).


According to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, Andrew Logan Vess was excluded from the church in 1867 for “distilling some brandy for purpose of paying debts and providing for his family.” [pg. 153]

Andrew Logan Vess wasn’t alone. There are numerous accounts of other members (including his brother Josiah) of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church being excluded for either distilling spirits or excessive drinking, and, surprisingly, very few are shown to have been dismissed from the church.

The history of moonshine in North Carolina is fascinating, as it was part of a community culture that just didn’t mix well with the government (who wanted to tax it) and churches (that see it as sin). The war on moonshine in North Carolina had been an on-going issue since the early 1700’s!

Born At The Wrong Time At The Wrong Place

James Elmer Vess was born in 1897, a time when McDowell County (near Blue Ridge Mountains) was still pretty much backwoods country. According to census records, the highest grade level completed was the 5th grade, which was likely the highest level of education offered at that time in the rural areas of North Carolina.

Without school, who knows what types of trouble kids gotten themselves into back then! I imagine, at a young age, James had friends whose families distilled liquor and this is probably how he got his first taste of alcohol.

By the time James was a teenager, moonshine was a hot business, for that North Carolina began to prohibit the sale of alcoholic beverages in 1908, which was ten years before the rest of the nation. So, what kid doesn’t want to make a little extra cash running moonshine!

In 1920, the federal government enacted a nation-wide ban against the manufacturing, selling, and transportation of alcoholic beverages. Obviously, not the best time for those struggling with alcoholism!

Family Pressures: Moffitt Family Connections

Of all the Vess ancestors I’ve researched, I’ve got nothing on Pinkney Elcanah Vess, father of James Elmer Vess. Records are scarce; but from what I gather, Pinkney E. Vess seems to have been a simple man living a simple life.

In 1889, Pinkney E. Vess married Cora Nevada Moffitt, daughter of Rev. James Ivy Moffitt and together they had 7 children, all sons, with James being the middle child.

[Above Left: Cora Nevada Moffitt Right: Rev. James Ivy Moffitt]


James grew up in a religious family with several of his brothers following in their grandfather Moffitt’s footsteps in becoming Reverends.

I was told that all of James brothers had become Reverends (but him) and that it was all of them who kicked him out of North Carolina; however, to my knowledge, it was only his oldest two brothers who became Reverends: Rev. Lennie Oran Vess and Rev. Arthur Lee Vess, and maybe they strongly encouraged James to skedaddle out of town.

With excessive drinking a sin, bootlegging illegal, and being raised in a religious family, James Elmer Vess didn’t stand a chance with his alcoholism.

There was also likely a lot of pressure on James Elmer Vess to be a well-modeled citizen for the sake of his family’s reputation. The Moffitt family had been around for a long time and during that long time, they made some pretty well-known family connections: Murphy, Ledbetter, Ownby, Whitaker, and Bird (that’s just to name a few). They even have a family connection with the Burgin family.

I first encountered the Burgin family in my research back when AOL was a thing and they had a website that mentioned “Pioneer” Ben Burgin having had a “Vess” servant boy. I regret not printing that page, because I haven’t been able to find it again.

Anyway, the Burgin and Davidson families were pioneers of western-North Carolina who once owned lots of land and were also involved in the local government and politics. Simply, the Burgin and Davidson families were kind of a big deal.

Burgin-Moffitt: Mt. Mitchell Railroad

I discovered that Gertrude Moffitt, James aunt (Cora Nevada Moffitt’s sister) married “Big Jim” Burgin, who worked for the railroad. He is distantly related to “Pioneer” Ben Burgin through his third great-grandfather, John Burgin.

I was told James Elmer Vess worked for the railroad, but there isn’t a record of it. However, he may have worked for the Mount Mitchell Railroad.

The history of Mount Mitchell Railroad is short. It ran from 1911-1914 and was mainly built for the logging industry, but was later converted for tourism.

Mount Mitchell is located in Yancey County, North Carolina and according to the marriage record of James Elmer Vess (18) and Pearl Lena Cox (21), they were married in Yancey County, NC in 1915.

Pearl’s family, at the time, was living in Mitchell County, just north of Yancey County in a town not too far from Mount Mitchell.

I assume James likely met Pearl while working for the Mount Mitchell Railroad with his uncle” Big Jim” Burgin . And, while we’re guessing, it’s probably not too much of a stretch to think that James was probably sent to his aunt and uncle as an effort to keep him out of trouble. However, the mountains is where all the moonshine is!

Heading To The West-Coast

From my perspective, it appears that James Elmer Vess cut ties from his family long before he ever decided to leave North Carolina. So, what drove him to Oregon? I mean, that is a lot of distance between bad blood.

I was told the railroad took him and his family out west and according to census records, they must have headed out of North Carolina sometime between 1918-1920.

There doesn’t appear to be a 1920 census record for James Elmer Vess; however, there is one for Pearl who is shown to be in Colorado with her mother (Bertha Cox) and the children.

Looking at this census, there appears to be a lot of lodgers in Colorado working in the railroad industry, so maybe James was missed on the census due to traveling.

It also seems that Pearls parents have split. Her father, Elliot Wood Cox stayed in Mitchell County, North Carolina while her mother, Bertha Cox, found her way to Colorado. I do not know when Bertha arrived in Colorado, or if they all traveled together.

Bertha Mary Krels – Cox



There is also a good chance James Elmer Vess did leave due to bootlegging. It just makes sense.

Instead of his “Reverend” brothers kicking him out; it was more likely the law enforcement, nicknamed the “Revenuers” who were the ones who ran him out of North Carolina. According to the history of North Carolina moonshine, the Revenuers were a group of officials that were tasked to locate bootleggers and moonshiners in real hard-to-get remote places, such as the Blue Ridge Mountains where James had been living.

Settling In Oregon

Birth records tell us that James and his family were in Oregon as early as 1927. But then, it gets interesting.

In 1930, James and his family are in Oregon, working as a farmer, but they also seem to still have a residence in Colorado, according to the Colorado Directory listing for 1931. Probably, because Bertha (Pearl’s mother) was still living in Colorado and they didn’t update their move with the directory.

Also, in 1931, Pearl had their last child in Colorado and I assume it was while she was visiting Bertha. Eventually, everyone (including Bertha) settled in La Grande, Oregon, where I believe James retired from Hart Construction.

James and Peral 1941

The West-Coast Vess Line

In the 1930’s the railroad industry was declining, which probably explains why he went into the farming industry (1930 census). But, I am not sure if it was just the railroad that took him all the way up to Oregon.

Although majority of Vess families on the west-coast descend from James Elmer Vess, he was actually not the first Vess family on the west-coast.

In fact, the oldest son of Nathan Vess, Andrew Jackson Vess, moved to the west-coast sometime before 1880. They settled in Spokane, Washington. According to census records, it appears that his mother, Clarinda Bellew-Vess moved to Washington after her husband, Nathan Vess, passed away in 1879 due to consumption.

Andrew Jackson Vess and Mary “Polly” Davis
Ancestry.com



So, I can’t help but wonder, if at some point, James connected with his Vess cousins (if related) in Spokane, Washington on his way to Oregon. I mean, usually when people move far away, they move to places where there is family.

It’s Vess Family History

It appears that James Elmer Vess embarrassed his family with his alcoholism and bootlegging. We will never know if alcoholism was the actual reason he left North Carolina for that our ancestors took that to their grave.

He could have been kicked out by his brothers (no argument there), but from a genealogical perspective, that seems unlikely. If anything, his brothers probably kicked him out of the family home in McDowell County and maybe in the process they strongly encourage him to leave town.

Instead of leaving North Carolina, he may have went to live with his aunt Gertrude (McDowell County 1910) where he may have later gotten a job at Mount Mitchell Railroad with his uncle Jim Burgin. Working in Yancey and Mitchell County, is where he likely met Pearl, getting married in 1915. A few years after the railroad shut down, WWI records (1917) show James and Pearl still living in Mitchell County. I don’t know when James became a bootlegger, maybe after the railroad shut down (if he even worked for the Mount Mitchell Railroad). Maybe he came to the Blue Ridge Mountains as a teenager to be a bootlegger. We’ll never know.

But, I strongly believe that when James did leave the state (most likely due to bootlegging), the family story about the Revenuers (law officials) was eventually mistaken as “Reverend” and thus, the family story evolved into James having been kicked out by his brothers (who just so happened to be Reverends).

Regardless of what really happened, James leaving North Carolina to settle in Oregon is still part of Vess family history. A big part of Vess family history, for that to the best of my knowledge, James Elmer Vess is probably one of the very few, if not the first, Vess family to have settled on the west-coast who is a descendant of Peter Vess.



A HUGE Thank You to everyone sharing their family’s stories with me and helping me piece together VESS family history! 🙂





































Investigating Willis Vess of Alabama: A Stumbling Start

/ J. V. / 2 Comments

This past weekend, I began to research Willis Vess of Alabama, just as extensively as Peter Vess of North Carolina; but I immediately stumbled upon a couple of genealogy road-blocks.

First of all, early Alabama records are weird.

Locating The Vess Family

In my opinion, the best way to research early families is to pin-point where they once lived and explore every part of their community, leaving no stone unturned.

Census records tell us that Willis Vess lived in Franklin County, Alabama (1830-1860) and then in Colbert County, Alabama (1870-1880). I suspect a county change rather than a physical move; which was later confirmed by maps.


Willis Vess was a farmer who had several properties and without the assistance of maps, I would have never been able to locate his properties; let alone find them in the correct county.

His land records state “Huntsville.”

Huntsville is in Madison county, a couple of counties east of Franklin and Colbert County.

This was confusing, especially, since the description of land does not reference rivers or creeks, but instead “Huntsville” coordinates; which kind of implies the property is in Huntsville.

Did Willis Vess live in Franklin / Colbert County, but had farm land in Madison County?

Well, turns out that Huntsville was just a place that sold land. It says so, on an official land record available for Willis Vess; as if it was written in Old English by Dr. Suess!

Image below reads: “the North West quarter of the North East quarter of Section two in Township six of Range seven West, in the District of Lands Subject to Sale at Huntsville Alabama, certifying forty acres and four hundredths of an acre.”

Or so, that is what I think it reads. I had to read it several times, before finally comprehending what it really says!

But yeah, the “district of lands subject to sale at Huntsville Alabama,” means Willis Vess purchased his land (located in Franklin County) through the Huntsville land-office in Madison County. And note, the only reference to “Franklin County” on this record, is its greeting to “Willis Vess of Franklin County, Alabama.”

And we wonder why so many records get lost!

Fox Trap Creek


If there are no creeks or rivers to reference, where does one start to look?

Fortunately, I got a hint from FindAGrave.com (of all places).
If you look at the memorial for John Vess, father of Willis Vess, created by Anna Popejoy (long-time researcher), it states:

“Mr John Vess was in Foxtrap by 1818. He built a Log Cabin in 1819/20. Cabin is still standing.”

I scoured the Internet. I didn’t know if Foxtrap was a community, creek, river, town, fort, plantation, mountain- or just some special spot only known to locals.

Surprisingly, I found Foxtrap on Google maps, by searching around Mountain Star (per sources on Ancestry.com). It is a creek that starts in Colbert County and extends downward into Franklin County, crossing Mountain Star Rd; which accurately reflects the county change seen in the census records for Willis Vess.


Interestingly, there are a few creeks named after early families surrounding Mountain Star; most notably: DODSON Branch and WHITLOCK Branch.

And for a good chuckle, there is also Rock Creek, Mud Creek, & Spring Creek (I assume these particular creeks had rocks, mud, and a spring) and then there is also Stinking Bear Creek which I would love to hear the story behind that one!

Then, after I spent an hour doing it the hard way….I found this on Alabama Genweb (Land Patent Mapping)! It has everyone!

This is a great resource to help me research neighbors (like I did with Peter and Nathan VESS), but I wish it had a date on it. I mean, some of these neighbors could have settled in as late as the 1880’s, which is not exactly helpful in tracing early settlers prior to 1820.

Where Did John Vess Come From

Of course this is multi-million dollar question! Where in the world did John Vess come from!

Besides an old cabin, there really isn’t any proof that John Vess ever existed – no census records or even a grave stone.

Franklin County, Alabama was established in February 1818 and according to Anna Popejoy (FindAGrave.com), this is about the time John Vess arrived to Foxtrap and according to Whitlock sources, it wasn’t until the 1820’s that the Whitlock family arrived from Georgia with the Thompson and Pennington families.

Looking at old maps between 1810-1820, it’s all Indian territory (including the western parts of Tennessee directly above Alabama).

One doesn’t just pack up their entire family and head 400+ miles for Indian territory alone; so there is a really good chance the Vess family didn’t travel alone. And, the safest route (I can think of) from North Carolina to Foxtrap Creek in Alabama would have probably been to go through territory already owned by the United States: South Carolina, Georgia, then Alabama.

So instead of traveling through Tennessee, John might have gone down through Rutherford County, North Carolina (Willis family) into Greenville County, South Carolina (Bellew and Gosnell family), through Georgia (Whitlock family), and straight across into Madison County (Huntsville) and finally settling in Foxtrap.

Of course, that is just a theory; one that might change if we find evidence of a connection with the VEST family who seem to have migrated into Tennessee, Kentucky, and Ohio.

The 1820 Census Blunder


If John Vess was living in Foxtrap since 1818, why is he not found on the 1820 census?
Was he so remote he got missed?

I guess I am not the only one who noticed, because apparently there is a very good chance he was missed!

According to an article posted on AL.com, there was a “mortifying miscount of the 1820 census,” where census workers supposedly quit during the census-taking process!

I don’t think any of the families in the Mountain Star area had been counted, because I do not recognize any of the names on the 1820 census for Franklin County, Alabama. There are no Whitlock, Dodson, Orr, Willis, Smith, Vandiver, or Isabell families listed on the census, but maybe they hadn’t arrived yet.

However, I still do not think the VESS family was alone.

Courthouse Fire

Not only do we have an incomplete census (when we really need one), but Franklin County also had a court house fire (in 1890). Who knows what records were lost (perhaps missing census tallies).

A Quick Recap Of What We Know

Despite such a stumbling start, we have learned quite a bit!

With DNA testing, we now know that Willis Vess of Alabama and Andrew Logan Vess of Rutherford County, North Carolina are closely related; but we have yet to figure out where they connect on the family tree.

Willis Vess appeared on record as early as 1837 (land record). He was a farmer who lived around Mountain Star along Foxtrap Creek in Colbert County, Alabama (once Franklin County). He married Talitha Whitlock, whose family arrived sometime during the 1820’s with the Thompson and Pennington families.

Records are scarce due to a census fail in 1820 and a courthouse fire in 1890.

Fortunately, we have a bunch of other resources to explore!

We have a map of neighbors, which means, we can explore records of close neighbors. We might also be able to locate the first settlers who may have traveled to Alabama with John Vess.

We also have the Mississippi Territory census record of 1816 to explore, which covered parts of Alabama before Alabama became a state! It really depends on when and where John Vess arrived in Alabama (via Tennessee or Georgia).

I really look forward to learning more about the VESS family of Alabama!


















Analyzing Ancestral DNA: Vess Genealogy

/ J. V. / 1 Comment

Vess Genealogy has been stuck at a massive roadblock for generations.
In my opinion, I believe there was a name change.

Records do exist. Either we are missing the places they might be (due to county changes) or we are overlooking records, because the surname is indexed wrong due to illegible handwriting.

Our ancestors lived in an area during a time where county lines were constantly changing, which means there are probably some counties that we may never in a zillion years ever think to look for records.

The biggest reason I believe records do exist is because so many other early families of western North Carolina have a paper-trail.

Okay, it is not exactly the neatest of paper-trails for that when you get into early records (early 1800’s and back), surnames are really butchered (horribly misspelled) to the point that even if you squint and look at it sideways, it might (if you shout it from a distance with a little echo) sound phonetically similar to the surname that it was meant to be. So, in most cases, it is the content that usually confirms the persons identity more so than the indexed surname linked to the record.

My point is, if a good portion of early families in the same area have records, there is a good chance the Vess family also has records. Unfortunately, there are too many different surname variants and counties to explore. If we want to move forward a little faster, perhaps genetic genealogy can help us.


Check out this cool video below – A North Carolina dialect that evolved independently due to isolation since the 1600’s. If that is anywhere close to what our ancestors used to talk like, no wonder names were horribly misspelled.

What Is Genetic Genealogy

It is my understanding, as I am 100% new to this, that genetic genealogy is a new approach to tackling difficult ancestors who do not want to be found.

Instead of digging through dusty old archives for records to make family connections, we can now make family connections with the help of DNA relatives. Unfortunately, the name of our stubborn ancestors are not embedded into our DNA, but DNA-relatives can point us in the direction, like a compass, to locate genealogy records that might help us identify a common ancestor.

Essentially, the idea is to use both methods (DNA and records) together to quickly and more accurately make new connections on the family tree.

Y-Chromosome DNA Testing is GOLD

Y-Chromosome DNA testing is gold, but without a lot of participants, it can also be lead.

Every male descendant carries a gene called a Y-Chromosome. Geneticist’s extract the DNA from the Y-Chromosome, analyze it and assign it to a Y-Chromosome Haplogroup (A-R).

A haplogroup consists of a group of people who share very similar DNA with one another suggesting a single common ancestor. An extremely ancient common ancestor.


The more people who participate in Y-DNA testing, the more these Haplogroups can be broken down into smaller groups called a subclade. Subclades are subgroups of Haplogroups. Assignment is largely based on single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP’s), which are specific mutations that correlate to specific paternal lines. Every time a mutation occurs over thousands of years, that genetic line branches off into a new subclade (or so that is my vague understanding of it).

As more DNA is collected and analyzed, the subclade may change; either resulting in grouping more people together into one subclade (moving from one existing subclade to another existing subclade) or having enough new information to create an entirely new subclade.

The VESS family is assigned to Haplogroup R. Haplogroup R has many different branches (subclades).

When members of the VESS family submitted their DNA, a new subclade was created where they were grouped together with the TRAVERS family (we are closely related), and then, when some members of the VESS family completed the BIG-Y Chromosome test (a more in-depth analysis), the VESS family was later assigned a new subclade although still grouped together with the TRAVERS family. This suggests a mutation.

It is interesting that our group has two different surnames and it kind of makes you wonder who came first: TRAVERS or VESS?

Did a male descendant of the TRAVERS family take the VESS surname, maybe from a step-parent, or was adopted by a VESS family or vice versa. There is also the possibility that our common ancestor could be from a time when surnames didn’t exist. OR we aren’t as closely related as we think and as more people begin to test, the VESS and TRAVERS family might drift apart into two different groups. The only thing I know for sure, is that it is a mystery we cannot solve today.

However, we did identify a new VESS line using Y-Chromosome testing: Willis Vess of Alabama.

The best thing about this DNA database, is that participants often note their oldest known ancestor which gives genealogists a specific location on a map to look for genealogy records. Although we know Andrew Logan Vess and Willis Vess are related, we have yet to determine how they are related to one another on the VESS family tree.

This is what I mean by Y-Chromosome DNA testing being gold but also lead. It has the potential to unravel many VESS mysteries, but without more participants, those mysteries will remain in the dark.

Male descendants carrying the VESS surname or one similar to it (VASS, VOSE, VOSS, VEST, VAUX, etc) are greatly encouraged to participate in Y-DNA testing through Familytreedna.com as there might be a genetic connection.

Autosomal DNA Testing

While Y-Chromosome DNA testing is a more direct route to identifying our paternal ancestors, autosomal DNA testing is more or less like taking the scenic route.

Y-Chromosome DNA tests provide you a much bigger genealogical timeline of just one paternal line that dates back to ancient times, whereas ancestral DNA tests are autosomal, which means they only go back 6-8 generations and is saturated by DNA-relatives on both sides of the family (paternal and maternal lines).

For me, my DNA-relatives related to the VESS line would mainly consist of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess (my third great-grandfather-6th gen). It would just barely (if at all) pick up DNA-relatives descending from Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess or even their parents. It greatly depends on how many of their descendants have submitted an ancestral DNA test and just how far they descend down the Vess-family line.

With an 8-generation family tree, a DNA test by my mom, and access to DNA information provided by a close family member who is a generation older than me, I have been able to identify DNA-relatives specifically connected to the VESS family line via a lengthy tedious process of elimination.

Fortunately, my mom’s DNA test does half the work for me by identifying DNA-relatives on her side of the family. Then, I look at shared DNA relatives with the family member who is a generation older than me to further identify DNA-relatives that are most likely VESS-related. Because this family member is a generation older than me, their DNA test would detect more DNA-relatives, those who are too distant to be detected by my DNA test.

Any DNA-relative with less than a cM count of 8, do not make it onto the DNA-relatives list (it’s too distant), even though there is a relation on the family tree. In theory, it would probably be best to have our grandparents do an ancestral autosomal DNA test.
cM (centimorgan)= the amount of shared DNA.

My Search Method

I started by making a list of DNA-relatives who carry the VESS name. Next, I made a list of DNA-relatives with the VESS name who also have a public VESS family tree. Lastly, I made a list of DNA-relatives who do not carry the VESS name, but have a public family tree showing they descend (at one point) from a VESS family member.

For each DNA-relative listed, I noted their oldest known ancestor (some I had to research a bit) and I also had to check their shared-relatives list to make sure they didn’t share DNA with my mom (which was the most time consuming part).

My Discoveries

At a glance, autosomal ancestral DNA tests tell us nothing; except, we have a lot of cousins. But after an extensive process of elimination, then entering the information into a spreadsheet, and finally organizing the information from closest DNA-relatives to most distant DNA-relatives does it actually start to get interesting.

1) As expected, majority of our shared DNA-relatives are descendants of Andrew Logan Vess.

2) As you scroll down towards more distant DNA-relatives, we start to see connections with Willis Vess. Based on this, we can probably confidently say that Willis and Peter Vess are very closely related.

3) Willis Vess seems closer to us than Nathan Vess; which may suggest Nathan’s line has either ended or not many of his descendants have done an ancestral DNA test.

4) Also as expected, the autosomal DNA tests just barely detect DNA-relatives who are descendants of Josiah, Alfred, and Alexander Vess (brothers of Andrew Logan Vess).

5) Interestingly, there are a few DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is one I do not recognize:

–Susan Ann Elizabeth VESS (b. 1856 Rutherford Co. NC) and Columbus MCGINNIS
*connected to Ledbetter tree and father is noted as Thomas William VEST of Tennessee

–Elizabeth Louise VESS (b. abt 1845 North Carolina) and William LANNING (marriage Henderson, NC)

–Everline VESS and James STEWART (marriage Colbert, Alabama)

–James Marvin VESS (b. 1853 South Carolina) and Sallie Octavia SPRUELL

**One of the Elizabeth’s might be the daughter of Peter Vess

6) But even more interesting are DNA-relatives whose oldest VESS ancestor is Addison Vess/Vest.

You would think this is a solid connection to the VEST family of Virginia, but if you look at the family trees for Addison VESS/VEST, they are not well documented and there is no consistency with Addison’s children or parents, which is a RED FLAG in genealogy.

Final Conclusions

I am not an expert, so please keep in mind my search method could be flawed and thus the information within this post could be highly inaccurate.

We still do not have enough information to find new ancestors, but we do have enough genetic evidence to start digging deeper into the life of Willis Vess without wondering whether or not we are wasting our time. Yes, Y-Chromosome testing confirmed he is related to Peter Vess, but autosomal DNA testing suggests the relation is much closer than we think.

Also, we might want to start to investigate Addison VESS/VEST for that his name appeared quite consistently in the chart below. The reason he showed up, is because his descendants some how took on the VESS name rather than keeping the VEST name like other VEST families; in which I think is intriguing. Why did this particular VEST line evolve into a VESS line?

Well, I guess we better start digging!! 🙂

Similar Surname, Similar Family Story: Vess Genealogy

/ J. V. / 2 Comments

Research Journal – March 2, 2021

Exploring Families With Similar Surnames

Prior to 1820, the “Vess” name seems scarce.
This is either because the Vess family just recently arrived to America or that there was a name change. Today’s research strongly suggests a name change.

When a surname is misspelled, we often tend to overlook important records. My genealogy game plan to bring these records to light is to research the neighbors of Peter, Nathan, and Willis Vess and investigate any nearby families with a similar surname. So far, I have a couple of excellent contenders with the VEST, VOSS, BEST, and BASS families. Unfortunately, I have yet to find any documents to confirm a direct connection with any of them.

With a handful of different families with similar surnames already piled high on my research plate, I had no intention on investigating anymore families; however, I would be foolish to disregard a family whose family story seems quite similar to our own family story…

The VASS Family: Sounds Oddly Familiar

I have spent years reaching out to different families with similar surnames in hopes one would have a similar family story to ours, but nothing ever came close until now…

I stumbled upon the VASS family with a document that wasn’t even about the VASS family itself, but more so about a man named Pendleton in Virginia whose daughter married a Vass. I can’t even tell you why I was looking at Pendleton to begin with, which happens a lot.

In genealogy, one document often leads to another document, then to another and another to the point you’re not exactly sure who it is that you were looking for in the first place! Honestly, I am pretty sure this all started with looking at map.

As I was saying, I stumbled upon a document that led me to more documents about the VASS family in Virginia. After reviewing my notes, I was shocked by how similar their family story is to ours…

1) Instead of Ireland, their “long time” family story has always been about “3 brothers from Germany.”
2) Their name used to be pronounced as “Voss” (just like us).
3) Some say they are German in origin and others say Scotland. (just like us, but instead of Scotland, it is Ireland).

There are a couple of documents pertaining to the VASS family, some of which strongly suggest they are Scottish, as part of the ROSS-Clan, with surname variants of Vaux, Vaus, and Wass. The Wass version is what they believe mistakes them for German. One source states the original name was DE-VALLIBUS; in my opinion, sounds French.

The VASS family was supposedly a prominent family in Virginia via John Vass and Rachel Pendleton. Their descendants eventually went down into North Carolina with the variant surname VOSS. They settled in parts of Casewell and Pasquotank Counties. [Note: There is Greenbury Voss/Vess in Casewell County]

Furthermore, there is a Vincent Vass (b. 1790) who married Mary Cosner living in Stokes County, North Carolina during the early 1800’s. This is interesting, because it means that William Tunwell VEST was not the only family in the area at the time with a similar surname to “VESS.” Also, we have a Peter Vest on a War of 1812 Surry County, NC record that we have not been able to connect to either the VESS or VEST family.

The VASS family is supposedly connected to the North Carolina VOSS family, which got me thinking: Is Frederick “Bass” of Anson County, NC, neighbors with the Bellew family, related to this VASS/VOSS mix?

The document linking the VASS/VOSS family (John Vass & Rachel Pendleton) to Vincent Vass cuts off and does not mention how they are related; unfortunately, I have not been able to find the original publication to read onto the next page.

I have just barely scratched the surface of the VASS family. As I mentioned before, this search initially began with looking at maps, in which I think has something to do with the names Whitlock, Vaughn, & Thompson scribbled on a piece of paper next to the name Pendleton. Of course, I didn’t jot down their connection!

Glasgow, Scotland

All this mention of Scotland, reminded me of Glasgow, Scotland.
See, my DNA results show ancestors having once living in Glasgow, Scotland. This intrigues me, because in the 1820-1830’s, we see records for a “Vess” family arriving to America from Glasgow. I do not know if there is a connection yet, but it is interesting nonetheless.


The VOSE Family: Lancashire, England

As if the pile of families with similar surnames wasn’t big enough, the VASS family led me to another:

There is one source that made a brief connection between the VASS and VOSE family, in which is not well understood. In my opinion, it seems as if they were connected together, because both families share the surname variant of VAUX. However, before tossing this family aside into the “maybe” pile, one particular thing caught my eye: The VOSE family is from Lancashire, England.


This brings me to the TRAVERS family of Lancashire, England. It is my understanding that Y-DNA data currently suggests that the VESS and TRAVERS families are related and it is believed that the two families split “prior to mid-1650.”

Interestingly, I came across a 1784 marriage record for a Mary TRAVERS and an Edward VOCE (VOSE) in Lancashire, England, but no family tree to determine further connections (if any).

The VOSE family is originally from Normandy. Interestingly, (in my opinion) the name DE-VALLIBUS that is supposedly associated with the VASS family, seems more fitting for this VOSE family.

In the early 1600’s, Robert and Sarah Vose migrated to America. Further research shows that the VOSE family prominently living in Massachusetts with no mention of any family migrating South. So with that, I tucked the VOSE family away with the WEST family- ruling them out completely.

Henry Vose of Virginia

Interestingly, buried within a plethora of documentation about the VOSE family in Massachusetts, there is this tiny bit that reads:
“Henry Vose, who arrived in Virginia in 1653.” houseofnames.com

Now, THAT is much closer to the Carolina’s!
I decided to type his info into Ancestry.com where I came across this piece of genealogy gold [right]!

He arrived in North Hampton, Virginia in 1653, sponsored by Anti. Hoskins. And guess what other name is listed with his: William Willis!

This is interesting, because we think the Willis Vess family in Alabama (from North Carolina) might have a connection with a Willis family.

Of course, this doesn’t confirm anything.

No Solid Connections Yet

Although I am disappointed that no new connections have been made, this new information is encouraging.

This new information isn’t pointing me into a new direction (which is exciting), but more so back to where I’ve already been; meaning, there is a good chance I was on the right track, but missed something! I just have to figure out what.

So far, I have recognized that research seems to be on opposite ends of our family history timeline and we are just needing to fill in a 140+/- year gap. We can trace our lineage to Peter, Nathan, and Willis and we know (via DNA) that at some point they were connected to the Travers family in England. So, roughly between 1650 – 1791 is missing.


Well, this should be fun!

A Couple Of Early Vess Ancestor’s Unaccounted For

/ J. V.

I thought I had all the Vess family in North Carolina between 1820-1900 accounted for, but apparently there appears to be two women with the name Elizabeth Vess in which I do not know where they go on the Vess family tree!

To pass time away during this crazy winter-storm event, I decided to just browse through some online documents. I didn’t want to dig too deep in case the power goes out. Nothing worse than stumbling upon something exciting and then the computer screen goes dark! But, browsing is never uneventful for me. So, before the power goes off again, this is what I stumbled upon…

Louisa Elizabeth Vess

I came across an 1864 marriage record for an Elizabeth Vess and William Columbus Lanning in Henderson Co., NC. She was supposedly born in Transylvania County, NC abt 1845 and died in 1879. [Transylvania County was established in 1861 and was previously part of Jackson and Henderson counties]. According to family trees on Ancestry.com for William Columbus Lanning, she was his first wife and they have her name as “Louisa” Elizabeth Vess.

I do not know who this is.

Possibly Peter’s Daughter

My initial thought, is that Louisa Elizabeth Vess is possibly Nathan’s daughter, because parts of Henderson were once part of Buncombe County where Nathan’s family is seen on the census records. Also, a couple years later, his daughter Sarah Jane Vess married Jackson Pressley in Henderson County, NC. But, there is no records of Nathan having a daughter named Louisa. He did have a daughter named Elizabeth though, but she married a Chambers and a Hyatt, and also died in 1915 in Washington. Furthermore, none of his older kids were old enough to have any children prior to 1850. I mean, they could have, but the odds are slim.

So, I looked at Peter’s family next and he has a daughter named Elizabeth born abt 1840, who disappeared after the 1850 census.

We do know that Peter and Catherine’s younger kids were sent to live with other families in 1860, suggesting Peter and Catherine had both passed away. Rachel, Eliza, and Jasper are found living in Buncombe County, NC with a Dempsey Sumners. Zephaniah Vess, their brother, is living with the Whitesides family in Rutherford Co. NC. But, I have not been able to find Elizabeth, suggesting she either got married or went to live with someone else and the census misspelled her surname.

There is a good chance this Lousia Elizabeth Vess is her. I followed the descendants along her line with William Columbus Lanning, and several surnames along that line do come up as DNA relatives; however, none of them have completed trees to confirm a solid connection.

Susan Ann Elizabeth Vess

I came across an 1878 marriage record for an Elizabeth Vess and Columbus McGinnis in Rutherford County, NC. She was supposedly born in Rutherford Co., NC in 1856. Some family trees on Ancestry.com for Columbus McGinnis have her as “Susan” Elizabeth Vess, “daughter of Andrew Logan Vess and Linnia Halford.”

Andrew Logan Vess did not have a daughter named Susan or Elizabeth.

I do not know who this is.

Possibly Peter’s Grand-daughter Via John Vess

You would think any Vess family born in Rutherford County, NC after 1850 would be easy to identify. I guess not.

We can certainly (or so I am confident) we can rule out Nathan’s family. In 1850, he and his family were in Buncombe and Haywood counties. We can also rule out Peter as the father, because research suggests he passed away sometime before 1844. With Nathan on the move towards Tennessee, this Elizabeth Vess may likely be Peter’s granddaughter (if born in 1856).

According to her death certificate (1926), her father is listed as “Andy Vest” and he was born in Rutherford Co too [her mother unknown]. But Andrew Logan Vess didn’t have a daughter named Susan or Elizabeth. The only other “Andy Vess” I am aware of, is Andrew Logan’s son, Peter Allen Vess, who also went by “Andy Vess,” but he was born in 1882. So, if not their daughter, then whose daughter is this??

Well, if I were to guess (I am guessing), I would say she is probably the daughter of John Vess, Peter’s oldest son.
Why?

John Vess disappeared from records after 1850. He had 4 children with his wife, Elizabeth Taylor: Sarah, Silus, Mary, Sophrona, who were all born prior to 1850. However, we have record of a divorce in 1854 via local newspaper, implying John Vess had left the state.

Perhaps John hadn’t left the state. Perhaps he was still living in Rutherford County, NC and found someone new and two years later (1856), had a daughter with someone else.

A Little More Digging Is Needed

For all I know, these women aren’t VESS at all. Maybe they are VOSS, VASS, or VEST? OR, maybe I missed someone in Peter and Nathan’s family tree.

Further research is required.


If anyone knows who these women are, please leave us a comment and we can update the family tree. 🙂














Did I Just Find Nathan’s VESS Family?

/ J. V.

Research Journal – February 5, 2021


I am super excited and a bit all over the place. Hopefully you are sitting down for this one…

I have an overwhelming list of families I am interested in researching, but I just don’t know where to start!

So, I decided, I would review all the 1790 census records for the counties that were once part of Tryon County: Rutherford, Lincoln, Spartanburg, York, Greenville, etc. But, because some families spill over into Mecklenburg County, I decided to check that census too.

Then, I went a little further to Anson County.
Because… prior to 1760, Anson County basically consisted all the western territory that would eventually become Tryon County and Mecklenburg County. So, why not, let’s check there too!

And I found something super exciting!

Possibly Found Nathan’s Family

I found a “BASS” family in Anson County, NC on a 1790 census!

Okay, so what, right?

Well, reading the census record on the North Carolina Genweb website (the typed version), I came across a BELLEW family: Henry, Abraham, and John Bellew [Bylue].

Yeah, I am like…”What! No Way!”

Interestingly, the BELLEW and BASS families are near each other. So, just to make sure it was correct, I found the census record on Ancestry.com [1790 Census Record pg. 2].

Although Genweb says there is an Abraham Bellew in Anson County, NC, I could not find his name “written” anywhere in the census on Ancestry.com. I don’t know if I keep missing it, or it was a typo on Genweb. However, I did find John Bellew!

Frederick BASS Sr. and Jr. are in Anson County in 1790, with not only the BELLEW family, but the LEDBETTER, PRESSELY, LINDSAY, DUNCAN, VAUGHN, MURPHY, PAGETT, and many others!

Supposedly, according to family, the LEDBETTER, LINDSAY, MOFFITT, and MURPHY families have known the Vess family forever.

PRESSLEY is a family Nathan’s daughter married into.
PADGET and PRICE are connected to Henry Pettit Sr. who used to live in South Carolina (Spartanburg Co.).
DUNCAN reminds me of the Duncan family in Patrick Co. VA.
VAUGHN family reminds me of Willis Vess’ mother (Margaret Vaughn).

I mean, it’s totally worth taking a look!

The BASS FAMILY

I have no idea who they are!
I am looking at Ancestry trees for Frederick Bass Sr, and interestingly, it pretty much stops with him! After a few attempts, I couldn’t get it to go anywhere either which probably suggests a name change!

But, the most intriguing find, is that Frederick Bass Sr. is shown to be married to Marry Polly VAUGHN.
The plot thickens…

Is This A Likely VESS?

In 1790, we can find an Abraham Bellew with Joshua Gosnell together in Spartanburg Co. SC.

They are found near a Joel Callahan, in which I was told has a daughter who married a Vess. Unfortunately, I have not found any records to support it; however, there is a William West listed near them too. I have not been able to determine which WEST line he belongs to (if any).

Anyway, I decided to find Henry Pettit Sr. in South Caorlina who lived near Peter in 1820 on Knob Creek (likely on the Mooney’s property) and was also a member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in the 1830’s. According to his Revolutionary War pension paperwork, his father was living in South Carolina (Ninety-six) where he “took his father’s place. ”

On an 1810 census record, I find Henry Pettit! But more interestingly, I found a JOHN BEAS.

I don’t know about you, but BEAS is pretty similar to BESS and VESS.

There are a few BASS families with different spellings in South Carolina, so I will certainly have to dig deeper to see if this John Beas stands alone. What brings me hope, is that there is another dang John Duncan. Also, there are many other familiar family names like DAVIS, REID, ALLEN, GREEN, KING, SHIPPLEY, COLLIN, and WEBBER. If I am right, I most likely will find them near the border between North and South Carolina in Spartanburg Co. SC.

No Official Conclusions Yet

I don’t know what to think about this BASS family.
Probably another goose-chase.

But, the fact that I found the Bellew family so close to a family whose name is similar to ours, is pretty intriguing. And, that they are surrounded by other familiar family names, is mind-blowing.

I wonder if they are connected to the VOSS family?

If I stick with my mantra (I guess you can call it that): That families who marry each other, have lived together, worshiped together, and likely traveled together! I might actually make some real progress!


Vess Genealogy: Vess-Duncan Connection

/ J. V.

I am elbow deep in Tryon County records and thus far, no “Vess” families.
They simply do not seem to exist and I have yet to make any connections with the “Vess” family seen in Patrick County, Virginia [1790’s].

There are a lot of interesting families in Tryon County, North Carolina. Many of which are on my “Families of Interest” list, including the Duncan family. They raise an eyebrow, for the fact, there is a Patrick County, VA tax record between Samuel Vess and Peter Vess and Samuel Vess and John Duncan. I do not know if the Duncans in Tryon County, NC are related to the Duncan family in Patrick County, VA.


I keep searching for a Vess-Duncan connection and I may have found one:

Peter’s first 3 sons were born and lived (briefly) in the Knob Creek area. So, I figured, I should take a look as to who they married:

John Vess married Elizabeth Taylor.
Taylor family has numerous properties all near Knob Creek and have been in the area since the area was considered Tryon County.

Josiah Vess married Zilla Early.
The Early family is complicated, however, Zilla’s mother is Nancy Duncan.

Andrew Logan Vess married Malinda Halford, whose grandfather obtained land on Knob Creek in 1792.

So, from what I can tell, Peter’s sons married into families who likely have settled in the area when it was considered to be Tryon County. However, further research is required.

Zilla’s family doesn’t seem to have any connection to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church (they were not early members with Peter). It may not be too much of a stretch to consider that the Vess and Early families knew each other outside of church; either they attended another church together, were neighbors, or migrated together (there are Early families in SC).

I need to do further research on these families. I need to finish mapping out all these families to see if there are any visible connections there. I am confident I am on a roll! Tryon County has opened up so many different doors, I just don’t know where to begin! 🙂

Exploring Knob Creek: Interesting Finds

/ J. V. / 3 Comments

January 31, 2021 – Research Journal

The earliest record I have on Peter Vess (Vest) is his 1820 census record for Rutherford County, North Carolina.

I have determined that he was living on “Knob Creek” in 1820; however, according to a map of the Broad River Basin, there are two Knob Creeks. One closest to Bill’s Creek (Bill’s Creek Baptist Church) off the Main Broad River and one closet to Lincoln County off the First Broad River.

I have researched all the families listed on the same census page as Peter and I have yet to confirm which Knob’s Creek Peter was likely living on in 1820. However, I have compared all the names, top to bottom, on the same census page [pg. 377] to the Member list dated 1829-1836 [pg. 115] in Helen M. Lu’s book, Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, and discovered something remarkable: 1820 Rutherford County Census.


Esom Logan
Peter Vest
David Mooney
Henry Petit (not sure if this is Sr. or Jr.). If it reads “Esq.,” it would be Jr., because he was a Judge.
James Young
Abraham Toney
Francis Young

These men [above] are the only men on that census page (interestingly grouped around Peter) that are connected to Bill’s Creek Baptist church between 1828-1836. Are they neighbors or family?

David Mooney’s children become members in the 1830’s.
Peter Vest and Abraham Toney were members between 1829-1836.
Henry Pettit Sr. became a member in the 1830’s and Jr. was dismissed in the 1830’s (does not say when he became a member).
James Young has records as early as 1828, but does not say when he became a member as records prior to 1827 have been lost. James and Francis Young are related.
Esom Logan has family who become members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in the 1850’s, but he is listed as a person of interest due to his connection with James Logan, in which I will explain in a bit…

Knob Creek – Mooney Families

This is where it gets complicated! I only have bits and pieces of the puzzle and so I don’t know how it all fits yet...

David Eaker MOONEY (Mauney) is a descendant of Hans Jacob Mauney/Mani from Switzerland (Palatine Immigrants who arrived on the ship Lydia) and is related to Christian Mauney who used his home as the Tryon County courthouse and jail.

To learn more about the Mooney/Mauney Families click here.


There is a 1798 Rutherford Co. land record for David Mooney, George Mooney, and Henry Site for 150 acres on the branch of “Knobs Creek.” Again, I don’t know which Knobs Creek, but if I were to guess, I would assume it is Knob’s Creek near Christian’s property south of the Catawba River closest to Lincoln County; instead of the Knobs Creek closest to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church.

I also looked at other names on the 1820 census list (a page back and a page forward) to find other land owners to get a better idea on where their properties were in relation to both Knob Creeks on the map, in effort to determine which Knob Creek Peter was likely living on at that time.

Interestingly, the few land-owners that I found on the census record all had land records for properties closer to Lincoln County, along the First and Main Broad Rivers where other Mooney properties can be found: In short, Peter may have been living on the Knobs Creek closest to Lincoln County [green above].

Not only are there connections with Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, but there are family connections too…

David E. Mooney is not shown as a member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, but his son Asa Mooney becomes a member in 1834 [pg. 117, Lu] and Asa married Anna Pettit, daughter of Henry Pettit Sr. [above on census].

Henry Pettit Sr. was received by Bill’s Creek Baptist Church in 1833. His daughter Sarah Pettit is married to Abraham Toney [above on census] and their daughter Elizabeth (Betty) Toney is married to David Mooney’s son Felix Mooney. Other sources say Felix is David’s grandson, but either way, they are still related. In fact, the Mooney, Toney, Pettit tree is complicated with numerous relationships! I strongly believe all three of these families lived together on Mooney’s land.

Also, it would not surprise me, if one of Peter’s daughters married into that web of families.
Note: Peter had 3 daughters and there are no records as of yet showing if they ever married; however, for one of his daughters (Elizabeth, I believe) disappears after the 1860 census which may suggest a name change due to marriage.

Mooney, Best, and Gosnell Family Connection

Of course, it gets more interesting…

Without a map of the Broad River Basin, I would have never realized how close the Mooney, Best, and Gosnell families were together! It was when I started to read land surveys that I found them to be close neighbors! Like their properties backed up to one another!

When Tryon County split into Rutherford and Lincoln County in 1779, the Mooney family ended up in the Rutherford County side while the Best and Gosnell families ended up on the Lincoln County side. This is why early census records have them county’s apart; without a map their connection is greatly missed! Further research shows the Mooney family also having land in Mecklenburg Co., but I cannot remember if they are neighbors with the Best family (I have to check the land survey’s again).

Lincoln County 1790 census: Boston BEST & Charles GOSNELL


Another interesting family to come into view is the VINZANT family! The 1790 census shows Gosnell and Best next to each other in Lincoln County. David Mooney is on the 1790 Rutherford County census, next to a Vinzant family who, by the way, Henry Pettit Sr., obtains land from in 1824! I don’t know who the Vinzant/ VanSandt family is yet, but I sure do hope to find out!

The Best Family Are Palatine Immigrants Too


I know the Best family came from Pennsylvania according to a North Carolina census record on Genweb. Further research states that their original surname is “Bosch” and recent research now suggests that I should be able to find their arrival somewhere in the same book as the Mooney [Mani] family! Pennsylvania German Pioneers: A Publication of the Original Lists of Arrivals in the Port of Philadelphia from 1727 to 1808, Vol. I They may have arrived a few years after the Mooney family as I do not see the Bosch family listed on the same passenger list with the Mooney family posted on Olivetreegenealogy.com. [See: Jacob Mani and Peter Ecker]

On the passenger list with Mani and Ecker is also a John Peter Weiss (maybe that is a Vess?). Maybe it wasn’t John, Peter, and Nathan, but John Peter! Dunno! 🙂

South Carolina Pasts

The Gosnell, Mooney, and Best families were close neighbors (on map). There are no records of the Gosnell family being members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church, which may suggest that the Vess family may have been close friends of the Gosnell family prior to the 1820’s, either through a different church, possibly as neighbors, or they migrated together.

Remember: Nathan Vess married Clarinda Bellew whose mother is supposedly Clarinda GOSNELL. Also, the Tyger River Baptist Church in SC (part of Tryon County) and Bill’s Creek Baptist Church were both members of the Bethel Association.

The Gosnell family is from Baltimore, Maryland. Charles GOSNELL settled in Greenville County, SC, more specifically, Glassy Mountain, SC. You can learn more about the Gosnell family in Baltimore County Families: 1659-1759 by Robert W. Barnes on Ancestry.com (pg. 270). It mentions how Charles GOSNELL moved to Greenville County, SC and also briefly mentions the marriage of Judith BELLEW as the wife of Joshua Gosnell. The Bellew and Gosnell families were popular in Glassy Mountain, SC and you can read about how I found them in the Dark Corners here.

Logan, Webb, Hayes, Willis, Orr, Duncan, Voss, Thompson, Vaughn, & Hodge Families


There is a list of reoccurring family names in which we don’t exactly know their connection to the Vess family (if any):

  • We assume Andrew, Alfred, and Willis may have been named after other families. Andrew Logan Vess, Alfred Webb Vess, and Willis Vess.
  • We can see the Orr, Thompson, and Hodge families near Willis Vess in Alabama, with the Thompson family having traveled to Alabama with the Whitlocks.

    There is an Elizabeth Orr who married a William Voss in Mecklenburg. Interestingly, William Voss is connected to the Voss family in Casewell, NC. There is a Voss family near Willis Vess in Alabama also connected to the Voss family in Casewell, NC.
  • Margaret Vaughn is supposedly the mother of Willis Vess.
  • Duncan family on Patrick County, Virginia tax record connected to a Samuel and Peter Vess.
  • And, the Hayes family being closely related via Y-DNA information.

Well, I have made another remarkable discovery: All these family names can be found in Tryon County, North Carolina!

I do not have enough information at this time to make any solid conclusions, but I do find it extremely interesting that these familiar family names are popping up in the same area since I started using the Broad River Basin map to identify early Tryon County families! These families may be unrelated to the same families mentioned above, but I do think it might be worth checking out.

Back To Esom Logan

Esom Logan on the 1820 census record with Peter Vess is a descendant of James Logan.
The Logan family had numerous tracts of land and some of his descendants in the mid-1800’s were also members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. I am not entirely sure if there is a connection, but it is James Logan’s earliest land grant in Tryon County that has caught my attention!

According to his 1779 land record, he obtained 50 acres of land on Vauns Creek [Vaughns Creek], which included the Vauns old cabin.

This record is interesting, because Vaughn’s Creek extends into South Carolina connecting to Lake Lanier, making it one of those properties on the border between North and South Carolina. The families that lived not the border didn’t exactly known whether they were North Carolina residents or South Carolina residents and their records were basically scattered among different counties in both states. Who was the Vaughn family and is there any relation to Margaret Vaughn who is supposedly the mother to Willis Vess?

I do not think Peter was living with Esom Logan in 1820, the Logan family didn’t join Bill’s Creek Baptist Church until the mid-1800’s, whereas Abraham Toney and Peter Vess were members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church together in the 1820’s.

Quick Recap

  • Peter was likely living on Knob Creek closest to Lincoln County on the Mooney family’s land.
  • Peter, Mooney, Pettit, and Toney families have connections to Bill’s Creek Baptist Church between 1828-1836.
  • Mooney, Pettit, and Toney families are related.
  • Mooney, Best, and Gosnell families are close neighbors.
  • Gosnell family is not part of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church which likely suggests the Vess family knew them prior to 1820 either through a different church, as close neighbors, or traveled together.
  • Pettit, Toney, Bellew, and Gosnell families used to live in South Carolina.
  • Familiar family names such as Logan, Webb, Hayes, Willis, Orr, Duncan, Voss, Thompson, Vaughn, and Hodge are found in the same area as early families of Tryon County.
  • James Logan obtained 50 acres of the Vaughn’s family land which included the Vaughn’s old cabin. Vaughns Creek is located on the border of North and South Carolina.

Where To Next

Like I said, I have a lot of bits and pieces!
However, it may be safe to assume, we have a couple of good leads; unfortunately, these leads venture off into the complicated records of Tryon County, NC.

I am going to start with the resources complied by Brent H. Holcomb for further history and records on Tryon County, NC. I have recently bought one of his books, Tryon County, North Carolina Minutes Of The Court Of Pleas and Quarter Sessions 1769-1779. I hope it will help me map early families of Tryon County!

Well that is pretty much all my Vess research in a nutshell! Please feel free to comment! Any additional information provided regarding Vess Genealogy is always greatly appreciated!


Book Source:
Lu, Helen M. Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, 1782- 1982. The Author, 1984. 













Using Maps For Genealogy: Tryon County, North Carolina

/ J. V. / Leave a comment

Maps are really important in genealogy, especially, when searching for ancestors in the American Colonies prior to 1850.

The Problem With North Carolina Records

While the horrendous handwriting and awful misspellings of family surnames make record searching tedious, it also doesn’t help that many early records have been lost, destroyed, or even misplaced.

Click here for a list of courthouse fires and record losses

North Carolina has had a number of courthouse disasters in which records were tragically lost forever. But another reason early records are so scarce, is because of its history of ever-changing counties! It’s not that early records do not exist, they just aren’t archived in the correct county!

The state of North Carolina (along with other Colonial states) prior to 1850 often had “fun” with establishing counties! North Carolina, in particular, is a headache with 100 counties, many of which have had numerous changes in boundaries and an additional 5 counties that were formed and later abolished! Some earlier counties didn’t even know where their boundaries started or ended (Tryon County for an example).

Click here to see an interactive map of changing North Carolina counties


When researching ancestors prior to 1850, it is important to identify a geological landmark in which they once lived, so that we can determine how many different counties covered that particular area. Once we identify all the possible counties, then we can dig into each of those county records!

My 4th great-grandfather’s property on Cedar Creek has been covered by 5 different counties: Tryon, Rutherford, Buncombe, Burke, (back to Rutherford), McDowell, and then back to Buncombe!

Records were supposed to transfer to the newly formed county, but that wasn’t always successful. Records pertaining to someone who lived in an area bordering another county (whose boundary lines were not well-defined) often caused confusion on where records were suppose to transfer to; especially, if the records had to be physically moved to a new courthouse. There is always that one box that gets left behind!

It is also important to remember that not every existing record is available to the public. There is a lot of records online, but much of it hasn’t been indexed yet for a quick search. It often requires a lot of browsing, scrolling and reading.

Whatever the reason records aren’t where we expect them to be, we can certainly take advantage of maps to help us try to locate them.

Rivers and Creeks were vital to every day life for our early ancestors. They traveled along them, they lived on them, they worked on them, and they built communities around them. Rivers and Creeks are the best types of landmarks to help us, not only to locate early records (with better defined keywords) in different counties but also learn more about their community to find families they likely traveled with to the new world.

While imaginary boundary lines were always changing, the landscape always remained the same.

Tryon County: Messy Boundaries

Tryon County, North Carolina no longer exists.
It was a county that covered a vast area of land which included parts of Indian territory (to the west) and parts of South Carolina.


Click here to see a list of modern day BOUNDARIES in which Tryon County covered

Many residents living near the border between North and South Carolina were a bit confused on which state they actually resided in, which likely complicated records (and probably taxes).

According to The Old Tryon County Genealogical Society website, The Southern Boundary of Tryon County, residents of Tryon County living on the border who considered themselves South Carolina residents may have records in Camden District, 96 District, or Craven County (SC).

To make matters even more complicated, Tryon County did not have a courthouse! According to Wikipedia (not my favorite source) and Journal of The American Revolution (a better source), states Christian Mauney (Mooney) conducted courthouse business on his land and “used his residence as a jail!”

Tryon was formed in 1768 and abolished in 1779 and then split into Rutherford and Lincoln County.
Here’s an idea of how many county changes occurred within the Old Tryon County territory:

In 1783, Rutherford County further defined their boundaries, giving much of Tryon County’s western territory back to the Indians. In 1791, Rutherford lost more of it’s western boundary to newly formed Buncombe County, but the boundary lines slightly changed back and forth between 1791-1793 (apparently nobody could make up their mind). In fact, a sliver portion of Rutherford County was briefly part of Burke County!

In 1812, what is now known as Transylvania County (formed from Henderson County) lies the historical and mostly forgotten Walton County of Georgia, a disputed strip of land that resulted in the WALTON WAR between Georgia, North and South Carolina. Basically, long story short, North Carolina took it back. Interestingly, the strip of land was known as the ORPHAN STRIP and it was considered to be a hideout for deserters and outlaws.


After that, the western portion of Old Tryon County expanded westward and formed counties like Hays, Macon, and Henderson, and Transylvania.

However, Rutherford and Lincoln County was the most complicated of county changes, for that in 1841, Cleveland County established itself smack dab in the middle between Rutherford and Lincoln County. Then, in 1844, Rutherford lost its north-western corner to McDowell County. In 1845, Lincoln County lost its southern half to Gaston County. Polk County formed in the northern-western corner of Rutherford County, just below Lake Lure, and in 1921, Buncombe county took over the north-western corner of Rutherford County from McDowell County. This kind of mess would make anyone’s brain spin!
mapofus.com


Finding A Map That Works!

My biggest challenge by far in Vess Genealogy has been trying to locate a map with North Carolina’s rivers and creeks! You would think it would be easy.

Of course, Google-maps is somewhat helpful, but it doesn’t show a lot of the creeks, especially, those mentioned on early land grants where most earlier settlers called home. Probably, because many of the creeks have dried up and disappeared along with history. 

I need a map of Old Tryon County, but many maps of Tryon County are difficult to come by and those that are available are not detailed at all. The next best thing is to look at individual county maps, but again they are not as detailed and it makes it extremely difficult to see the full spectrum of an entire community of early settlers, especially, a community that has been broken up by different counties. Very frustrating! 

However, I FINALLY stumbled upon a very useful map [below]. A map of the “Broad River Basin, which can be found on The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill library’s website: North Carolina Maps.
I have NO IDEA how I found this website!!

Although this map is dated “1968,” it is exactly what I have been looking for! Not only does it show Rivers and Creeks, but also extends a little (just a little) outside the borders of Rutherford County, North Carolina. Basically, covering a good portion of Old Tryon County! Just want I needed!

Now We Are Getting Somewhere!

The first record of my earliest ancestor, Peter Vess, is an 1820 census record in Rutherford County, NC. After some research, I have determined that he was living on “Knobs Creek.”

Now that I finally have a decent map, I can use land records to determine nearby neighbors and begin to identify families who may have connections with him.

As of right now, I have complied a list of 19 land owners on and near Knobs Creek between 1775-1820. One by one, I am reviewing their land surveys.

Land survey’s (if they have one) tells me a lot!
1) Whose land they are joining (neighbor)
2) Whose properties their land touches (additional neighbors corners)
3) Witnesses (who are possibly close family or friends, some that don’t own land)

This is great, because I am finding more families who likely obtained land issued from Tryon County whose records were either lost, misplaced, or not available online yet.

However, I have just discovered that there are two Knob Creeks! I need to go back and review my research to determine which Knob Creek Peter Vess was likely living on in 1820. What is most exciting, is that the map I just recently found shows both Knob Creeks!

While reviewing land records, I have stumbled upon new interesting information which is beginning to form a somewhat crazy (or maybe not so crazy) new theory regarding my 4th great-grandfather’s origins! It will knock you off your feet!