Noah Merlin Vess is the son of Andrew Logan Vess and Sinthia Conner. He was born in McDowell County, North Carolina on June 18, 1875. Noah spent a good portion of his life without sight, but it is my understanding that it didn’t stop him from living a long fulfilling life.
According to extensive genealogy research, Descendants of Andrew L. Vess, by Norman J. Davis Jr., Noah Vess had been married to Ollie Brown, daughter of Allen Brown and Sallie Harrelson and then to Artie Ella Mae Dalton, daughter of Bailey Dalton and Margaret Davis. He had a total of eight children.
Children with Ollie Brown:
Eskimo Stanley Vess – b. August 7, 1894 Sarah C. Vess – b. February 17, 1895 Allen Andrew Vess – b. February 1, 1897 Mary M. Vess – b. July 15, 1899 Kate Lou Vess – b. June 10, 1905
Children with Artie Ella Mae Dalton:
Media Ella Mae Vess – b. July 26, 1914 Rans Merlin Vess – b. November 15, 1916 Jimmy Guy Vess – b. Nov. 12, 1920
On March 3, 1958, Noah Merlin Vess died at the age of 82. He is buried next to Artie Ella Mae Dalton in Bethel United Methodist Church Cemetery, North Carolina.
Below is a memory shared with us by Ron Vess about his grandfather, Noah Merlin Vess.
“My mother and father told me Grandpa was sitting on his verandah after a hard days work watching the pinks and greys painted in the evening sky by the setting sun. As the light faded, grandpa felt a bit dizzy and noticed his wasn’t seeing very clearly so he went to bed. When he woke next morning he was completely blind, not even able to distinguish any light at all, even the sun.
Doctors and operations followed without success.
As a child, I stayed overnight from time to time with grandpa from about age 7 until his death when I was age 9. Summertimes were hardest as it gets dark about eleven there in the height of summer and grandpa wanted me to go to bed at eight. I could hear the neighbour hood kids, all cousins, playing and laughing.
The opposite side of the coin was getting up at four, in the dark. Grandpa didn’t need lights. I did! He would make coffee then cook his breakfast when the stove was hot. His breakfast was always the same. He would place a packet of prepaid split rolls in the oven, place a cast iron skillet on the stove, sprinkle ground sausage patties in the skillet while feeling for cooking progress with his hands and the spitting fat. He would break eggs into a bowl and mix them with with a fork. When he gauged the sausage cooking to be properly advanced, he would pour in the eggs and mix until the scrambled eggs stiffed the mix. A wonderful breakfast was had by all!
Even now, the smell of frying sausage patties puts me back in the kitchen with grandpa. Watching him cook with burns on his hands, healing scabs on his head from knocking into objects and marvelling at how amazingly blue were his eyes. Robin egg blue.”
The Vess family has a close genetic relationship with the Travers family from Lancashire, England; however, at this time, we do not have enough Y-DNA testers to determine whether we are close cousins or a branch of the TRAVERS family who veered off with a different surname (VESS). Y-DNA testing and genealogical records has revealed some insightful information that greatly warrants more Y-Testers and genealogical research.
Y-DNA: Travers & Vess Families
Y-DNA analysis reveals that the Vess and Travers families are closely related. Unfortunately, our testing pool is small; Y-Testers include a couple of descendants from the Peter Vess line, one descendant from the Willis Vess line, and two descendants of the Travers line from England who are related to the Travers family in Dorchester, Maryland, USA. We do not have any Y-Testers yet from the Nathaniel Vess line (South Carolina) or the Jonathan Vess line (Texas); however, autosomal DNA suggests a distant relationship.
Vess Family DNA Project
Last year, the VESS and TRAVERS families were assigned into the same group CTS11317; then one of the Vess Y-testers (Peter’s line) completed the Big-Y Test, which broke it down further, re-assigning the VESS family their own sub-group R-FT19517. This suggests the two families may have split sometime prior to 1665 in England.
Haplogroup Tree YP4131
A Possible Connection With A Travers Family From Ireland?
What we know for certain, based on available Y-DNA information, is that the VESS family did not split from the TRAVERS line who settled in Dorchester, Maryland, USA. Our ancestral split from their particular line occurred in England before they immigrated to America. But, they were not the only Travers family to immigrate to America…
This finding is intriguing, for that their documented history is remarkably similar to the Vess family story about three brothers from Ireland. In one version of the Vess family story, it specifically mentions the three brothers having come from “Cork, Ireland.”
Furthermore, the TRAVERS surname for this particular line in America evolved into TRAVIS, with a couple of records discovered with the surname spelling of TRAVESS. This is also an intriguing find, considering that the VESS family had always been told that the VESS name is not their original surname. It is believed that their original surname was “shortened,” and/or was pronounced as “VOSS.”
If we consider thick accents of the time, the name TRAVIS could have easily been heard as “TRAVOSS,” and it is entirely plausible that overtime the “TRA” was eventually dropped, just leaving VOSS, which could have easily evolved into VESS. As records show, the “VESS” name didn’t exactly take hold (record-wise) until the 1830’s, and prior to that, it was a mix of VEST and VOSS, perhaps even VASS, likely due to terrible handwriting where the “e,” “o,” and “a” were difficult to tell apart. This would also explain why we see a pocket of VOSS/VASS families near the TRAVERS/TRAVIS families in North Carolina.
According to The Vaulx Family of England, Virginia, and Maryland, it is believed that the VASS families of Virginia /North Carolina “maybe” related to the VAUX family of Virginia (descendants of the Norman De Vallibus family), but there is no solid evidence to confirm such a connection, since there is no record on where the VASS/VOSS families of Virginia/North Carolina originated from across the Atlantic. Perhaps, some of the VASS/VOSS families have a surname that may have evolved from the TRAVERS line??
Although this information is intriguing and very favorable towards the mysterious origins of the VESS family, we do not have any solid evidence to make any final concrete conclusions.
Investigating The Travers Family In The Carolinas
We have only just begun researching the Travers family of North and South Carolina. We know there is a Francis Travers (sometimes Travis) of Tyron County, North Carolina who had land in the modern-day Spartanburg County, SC area in the 1760’s. He descends from the Travers family from Ireland.
Just recently, we discovered a pocket of Travers who are connected to Abbeville, SC, which is intriguing, for that we have an unknown VESS family in the same area in 1850. The Travers family from Ireland have earlier connections in Pasquotank, Pitt, and Beaufort counties in North Carolina. Interestingly, near these areas, we also have the Voss/Vass families whose origins, like the Vess family, are also undetermined.
Further investigation is needed.
Y-Testers NEEDED: Participant Info
To further unravel the mysterious connection between the VESS and TRAVERS family, we need more DNA participants.
We encourage EVERYONE to join the VESS Family DNA Project via FamilyTreeDNA.com.Autosomal DNA tests (from both male and female participants) helps us identify new Vess family lines and has the potential to help us locate genealogical records to make more family connections. Y-DNA tests from male participants from various family lines can help us further understand the connection between the VESS & TRAVERS family. Are we cousins or direct descendants of the same family?
Interested in testing? Please visit the Vess Family DNA Project to contact co-admins for more information or email vessgenealogy@gmail.com
TRANSFER FOR FREE: If you have already completed an autosomal DNA test or Y-DNA test from another company, you may have the option to transfer your data to FamilytreeDNA.com. Transfers are free with a FamilytreeDNA.com account; however, there is a $19 fee, if you wish to access more account tools. This is much cheaper than opening an account by having to order a new DNA test. Please check out this post for more information and instructions about transferring data to FamilytreeDNA.com.
Y-TESTERS NEEDED:
We need more Y-Testers from various family lines: Willis Vess line, Nathaniel Vess line, Travers/ Travis Carolina lines, and VOSS, VAULX, VASS, family lines. There are three Y-DNA tests available:
The Y-37 test helps us identify new Vess/Travers lines. The Y-111 test helps us identify families closely related to us. The Big-Y helps us further understand ancestral splits between closely related families.
Big – Y Testers Needed
We are seeking more Big-Y Testers, specifically from the Willis Vess line and Travers/Travis North & South Carolina line. Participants need to be male and have either the VESS, TRAVERS, TRAVIS surname. For more information about the Big-Y and pricing, please contact Michael Travers or Vincent Vess; contact info is available on the Vess Family DNA Project website.
The VICE family seems like great candidates as possible VESS ancestors due to their connection with the PETTIT family in South Carolina, but I doubt there is a paternal-link. We just don’t share the same origin stories and I find that strange. I would think different lines of our early ancestors would share a similar family story regarding Ireland.
If you think about it, every version of our family origin story always has 3 consistent parts: Ireland, 3 brothers, and a name change. No matter what, these 3 elements appear to mean a lot to our VESS family.
Of course, family stories are not 100% accurate, but surely they must contain some ounce of truth that can provide us clues to our past. I mean, the stories had to come from somewhere?
I have often wondered if the Ireland aspect came about because of Tryon County (abolished county in North Carolina) that could easily be misinterpreted later as the County of Tyrone in Ireland. However, the Peter Vess line spent generations in one place (McDowell County) that was once part of Tryon County. How would they not know Tryon County ever existed??
Also, I must admit, I’ve only heard family stories about Ireland from the Peter Vess line. What have the Willis Vess and Nathaniel Vess lines been told? Is it similar? Have they been told they come from Ireland too?
The VICE family intrigues me for the consistent name of NATHANIEL and JOHN throughout their family tree. However, according to several sources that I found online, the VICE family is supposedly Welsh in origin. Those descending from Nathaniel Vice and Dorcas Meadows supposedly have a connection with Pochahantas (now surely our family wouldn’t leave that part out). Carolyar.com
Other sources say they are Dutch (Frederick Count, VA had a Dutch population). AND, despite having the name VESSEY on their family tree – stories say he came from England. I have not found any stories suggesting any kind of connection to Ireland.
Their English origins intrigue me, because I feel as if VESS DNA is predominately English. It is my understanding that the Y-DNA Haplogroup we descend from is English/Scottish, which has recently taken me into a new direction away from the VICE family, but interestingly, not too far away from the VICE family.
As of right now, for me, the VICE family is a DEAD END; at least until a male VICE descendant tests their Y-DNA or we stumble across some significant genealogy record that can confirm a solid connection. In the mean time, research in South Carolina has not gone to waste!
Researching the families in South Carolina (especially, Abbeville) where we find a mysterious John Vess and Drucilla Turner (1850), has some interesting findings related to an unknown VICE family, a TRAVERS family from Cork Ireland, and a ghost VOSS family who appears to have eluded the census records yet mysteriously pop up in other family records (like Wills and accounting papers)!
This is a long post, but I assure you it is worth the read…
Friendly Reminder: The opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.
Tangled DNA Matches
Genetic genealogy is a great tool in locating stuborn early ancestors; however, the colossal challenge of analyzing autosomal DNA is that it is limited to only 6-8 generations.
For me, my autosomal DNA largely captures descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Lucy Malinda Halford (my 3rd great grandparents – 6th generation). It also detects a good portion of descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Cinthia Conner, because we share a good deal of DNA from Andrew Logan Vess.
As we move over on the Vess family tree to the siblings of Andrew Logan Vess (John, Josiah, Alfred, etc.), those matches are more distant as they are barely detectable with <1% DNA match. Interestingly though, comparing the number of shared DNA segments (cM), I match closer to descendants of Willis Vess than I do to the descendants of Nathan Vess, sometimes more closely than the siblings of Andrew Logan Vess! This, in my opinion, likely has A LOT to do with my mother’s deep roots in South Carolina and Georgia.
It is extremely difficult to pry apart my parents shared southern DNA matches. My mother matches with ALL the descendants of Andrew Logan Vess and Lucy Malinda “Linnia” Halford (the bulk of my shared Vess matches) on my father’s side, because Linnia Halford’s mother, Sarah Jane “Lollie” HILL, is a descendant of William Augustus Hill, my mother’s 7th great-grandfather. To make matters worse, the Halford and Hill families lived next to each other on Knobs Creek in Rutherford County, North Carolina, mingling with so many families connected to the Vess family!
Thomas J. Halford & Sarah Jane “Lollie” Hill Rutherford County, North Carolina
My mother’s Hill line eventually settled in Anderson, Abbeville County, South Carolina, which just so happens to be a hot spot where many families of interest seem to have converged at one point or another. One HILL ancestor of mine, found his way to Greenville, South Carolina and connected with a BENTLEY from Georgia, opening the flood gates to even more deeper roots in the South.
With this, my mother seems to shares DNA matches with many southern families, including the Nathaniel Vice family (via a Turley connection) that migrated to Alabama as they passed through Georgia.
Interestingly, my mother does not share DNA matches with descendants of REUBEN VICE of South Carolina, who is the son of John Vice and Frances Roebuck. She also does not share DNA matches with VICE families in Kentucky who are likely connected to Nathaniel Vice II (brother of John Vice of South Carolina). This is interesting, because if she doesn’t share those matches, it is likely a connection on my VESS line.
How do I know it’s not a connection on my parents maternal lines? DNA matches suggest a connection within 6-8 generations back, which would greatly eliminated my parents maternal sides who arrived late to the United States and had very little connection with the south. My father’s maternal side arrived in Ohio in 1894 from Austria and my mother’s maternal side arrived in Michigan in 1948 from England. When looking at shared matches, it is easy to identify and eliminate leads connected to my parents maternal sides.
Exploring Sarah A. Vess & Vardry McBee Connection
Vincent Vess, co-admin of the Vess Family DNA Project, has made an interesting discovery analyzing his own autosomomal DNA.
He discovered a shared DNA match with a Vess descendant of Alabama and a descendant of Sarah A. Vess and Vardry “Nodsed” McBEE; Sarah being the daughter of Jonathan Vess and Elizabeth Heron in Jackson County, Texas.
If the name Vardry McBeesounds oddly familiar, that is because it is a name often seen on many records in North Carolina. According to the Biographical Information section of McBEE Family Papers, Captain Vardry McBee was a constable in 1770 in Tryon County, North Carolina. His son, Vardry McBee Jr., later became a court clerk in Lincoln County, North Carolina in 1812.
The name “Vardry” is used numerous times throughout their family tree. Vardry “Nodsed” McBee, husband of Sarah Ann Vess, being one of them.
Vardry “Nodsed” McBee descends from Captain Vardry McBee (1734) and Hannah ECHOLS from Virginia via Silas Echols McBee Sr. (1765) who is the older brother of Vardry McBee Jr (1775), court clerk of Lincoln County, NC.
Unfortunately, not much is mentioned about Silas Echols McBee Sr. (1765) who appears to have settled in Kentucky. However, according to South Carolina Digital Records, there is a 1785 land record for Silas McBee, next to Vardry McBee (I assume his father-Sr.) on Thickety Creek in the 96th District of South Carolina. [Located North of the Pool and Pettit families] According to Revolutionary War Rosters, Silas and Vardry McBee served under Col. Roebuck (related to Francis Roebuck, wife of John Vice).
We do know that John Vice also had family in Kentucky via Nathaniel Vice II; however, very little is known about them.
Peter White of Texas – Discovery of Henry Vice of Virginia
When Jonathan Vess of Texas died, Elizabeth Heron married Peter White.
Peter White was born in Virginia (1801) to Shadrick White and Sarah Gibson. According to the Annuals of Soutwest Virginia 1769-1800 (pg. 1252), Shadrick was living in an area on or near “Madien Spring Fork Clinch River,” which is located in Tazewell County, VA near the North Fork Holston River.
*Note: Jonathan Vess and Peter White are both listed in Stephen F. Austins Register of Families, both having traveled from Missouri.
I decided to check for VICE families in and around the area and surprisingly, I discovered Henry VICE, living on South Fork Holston River, less than 50 miles away from the White family. Unfortunately, I do not know if Henry Vice is related to John and Nathaniel Vice, however, further research suggests there may be a connection.
1792: Henry Vice joins land with John Vaught and and Jarvis Smyth 1803: Henry Vice adds 60 acres to his own land 1803: Henry Vice joins land with Alexander Campbell and Crockett family 1806: Joseph Williams joins land with Henry Vice
County Boundaries Notes: Although records for Henry Vice state Wythe County, the South Fork of Holston River is not in Wythe County. It begins in modern day Smyth County and flows through Washington County. Wythe County used to cover parts of Smyth and Washington County prior to 1792. Wythe County also included modern day Tazewell County and extended all the way to Patrick County. Residents in the Holston River area are likely to have records under several different counties.
James Harvey Vest
A few months back I gained an interest in James Harvey Vest (1838) from Patrick County, VA. I noticed the name was on a list of Y-DNA results next to Willis Vess; however, it was explained to me that they are not related to each other, but curiously, neither of them are related to the VEST family of Virginia.
I reached out to W. Langdon, whose family has done extensive research on James Harvey Vest. With their help, I was able to check for shared DNA matches between our families and it turns out that my aunt (via her Vess line) does share a DNA match with a descendant of James Harvey Vest with two interesting families on their family tree: CAUDILL and VESSE (specifically Ephremia Vesse).
We could be connected through our family’s COX line (Pearl Cox), for that the COX and CAUDILL families were close together in Wilkes County, North Carolina. Interestingly, this was during a time when a William Vess was there.
I’ve seen Ephremia Vesse on many trees of shared DNA matches. She is the daughter of John “Vessey” and married Partick Conyngham (Cunningham). The interesting part is that sources say she died in Augusta County, Virginia. A place we have found shared DNA matches among the descendants of Willis and Peter Vess with a descendant of an early Logan family living in Augusta County, near the VESS/VEST family of Rockbridge County, VA. [I will share those findings in a different post, as I have found more pockets of VESS/VEST/ VICE families all along the western counties of Virginia]
CAUDILL and VESSE are also interesting, for that the VICE family supposedly descends from a VESSEY in Frederick County, VA and according to Appalachian Home website, CAUDILL and VICE families are listed as “Allied families.” What is the connection though?
In 1850, James Harvey Vest (1838) and his sister Nancy Vest were in Tazewell County, Virginia. His sister Nancy, married Joseph White, who I believe is related to the same White family as Peter White and her marriage record states she was born in Patrick County, VA and that her father is “Henry VOSS” and “Mary” (no last name). According to public trees on Ancestry.com, Mary may have a connection to the Caudle family. Could James Harvey Vest be related to Henry Vice?
But, it gets even more interesting…
James Heron: Holston River
I looked at land records for the Holston River area and discovered James Heron. Not only did he have land on the South Fork of the Holston River (like Henry Vice), but also on all the Forks of the Holston River, including the North Fork near the White family.
I can’t help but wonder,is this the same James Heron we see on the Patrick County, VA Deed Records 1791-1801 on Bull Mountain and Koger Creek with William Vess/Voss? Is this James Heron related to Elizabeth Heron, wife of Jonathan Vess of Texas?
The Genealogy Monkey Wrench: Y-DNA
I hate busting bubbles, but James Harvey Vest does not appear to be genetically related to our Vess family. Although we do share the same parent Haplogroup (R), our lineages separated thousands of years ago into R1a and R1b subgroups. Our Vess family branches from R1a, whereas James Harvey Vest branches from R1b. Yet, curiously, genealogical records strongly suggest that both our families may have a connection with the Vice family.
Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, there is no available information regarding Y-DNA testing for the VICE family.
But, there is a slight glimmer of hope for a connection, for that our VESS family is mysteriously closely related to the Travers family. So, in theory, it is still plausible that there could be a connection to all these families, perhaps through a half-sibling somewhere.
Quick Recap:
Genealogical records suggest a connection between the VESS and VICE families.
There appears to be a distant connection between an Alabama Vess and a descendant of Jonathan Vess of Texas (via Sarah A. Vess and Vardry McBee).
McBee family has history in North Carolina.
Elizabeth Heron married Peter White after the death of Johnathan Vess. The White family is from Tazewell County, Virginia.
Henry Vice (relation to John Vice family unknown) has land in the Holston River area near the White family.
Research strongly suggests that James Harvey Vest from Partick County, Virginia living in Tazewell County, VA in 1850, may have a connection with the Vice family too.
A marriage record for James Harvey Vest’s sister states their father is “Henry Voss.”
James HERON also has land in the Holston River area. Interestingly, we see the name James HERON with William VESS/VOSS on Bull Mountain and Koger Creek in Patrick County, VA deed records 1791-1801. Is this the same James Heron?
Jonathan Vess and Elizabeth Heron were married in Patrick County, VA.
Further research and autosomal DNA analysis suggests a Vess connection with early VICE families in Virginia and records have revealed more pockets of VESS/VEST/VOSS/VICE families throughout the western counties of Virginia.
Let’s start in Patrick He was born in Virginia, 1779 and married Elizabeth Heron in 1791, in Patrick County, Virginia. We have discovered a William Vess/Vest in Patrick County, Virginia living near the Heron family (Patrick County deed records). This is either Jonathan William Vess himself or perhaps his father.
In the mid-1820’s him and his wife, Elizabeth Heron, traveled to Missouri and then down to the Republic of Texas with Stephen F. Austin. In 1831, Jonathan received land from the Mexican government and gave a portion of his land to build the town of Morales, TX (a ghost-town today with a history of outlaws).
John died in 1846. His daughter, Mary Lorena Vess, married Samuel McCulloch Jr., who was a free-slave, famously known for fighting in the Texas Revolution.
Research strongly suggests that Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess may have common connections in South Carolina. In this post, we begin to explore these possible connections.
Please note that the opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.
Mapping Out Families
Using information obtained by South Carolina Digital Records, I was able to map a few families that may have connections with our earliest known ancestors: Pool, Pettit, Bellew, and Willis families. *Toney and Nicholl records have also been found, but are not mapped above.
Pool and Pettit families lived along the Pacelot River below Lawson’s Fork.
Bellew and Willis families lived along Fair Forest Creek.
Vice and Hembree families lived along Cain Creek branching out from the Tyger River.
Peter Vess: Pettit & Toney Families
According to Peter’s 1820 census record, he is listed next to David Mooney, Henry Pettit, James Young, and Abraham Toney. The Pettit and Toney families married each other and were members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess. [Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu].
According to North Carolina’s Land grants and deed website and various other sources, David Mooney’s family has been in this area of North Carolina since the 1760’s (Tryon County), having traveled with the Eacker family. Living nearby in Lincoln County, North Carolina is the Boston Best and Charles Gosnell family. Boston Best has early land records in Tryon County, but I not sure if those properties are in modern-day North Carolina or South Carolina.
Interestingly, Boston Best (I believe to be Jr.) is on the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record [below] near Henry Pettit, while his father Boston Best Sr. is listed next to Charles Gosnell in the 1790 Lincoln County, North Carolina census record. Charles Gosnell’s son, Joshua Gosnell, is listed next to Abraham Belue (Bellew) on the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record – a few pages over from Henry Pettit.
Also, John Vice/Vise is on the same page of the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record as Henry Pettit, but listed as John “Wise.” We can safely assume John “Wise” is John Vice, based on other families on the same page, such as Joel Hembree (Embry) who is a neighbor of John Vice per land records.
We know the Toney family was also in South Carolina. They appear to have been in South Carolina as early as the Revolutionary War (like Henry Pettit). I found a Toney family with a land record in Tyger River dated the same year that John Vice obtained land in the Tyger River area too [below].
According to family trees for the Toney family, Abraham Toney of Rutherford County, North Carolina (with Peter Vess) is supposedly related to Timothy Toney of South Carolina. There are numerous Abraham’s on the family tree and 2 of them went by William (Abraham William Toney) which has caused a lot of confusion, so further research is needed to confirm the two Toney families are related.
Also, I see John Stovall next to Henry Pettit on the 1790 census. I believe Ann Pool, Henry’s wife, is related to the Stovall family (her maternal line) and the Stovall family had connections with the prominent PENN and HAIRSTON families in Patrick County, Virginia where we find William and Peter Vess [1790-1801 Patrick County Deeds].
Dunneway is also an interesting name on the 1790 census [above]. There is a marriage record for Nathaniel Vice and Sarah Dunaway in Kentucky (1802). This is supposedly Nathaniel Vice Jr., brother of John Vice Sr. in South Carolina. There appears to be confusion over the numerous Nathaniels in the Vice family tree, so it is not certain how they are actually connected, further research is needed.
According to the Vice family trees, Nathaniel and John Vice are brothers…do they, perhaps have a brother named Peter? And, would this Peter have been the Peter from Patrick County, Virginia? If the VICE and VESS families are the same family, is this where our oral tradition about the three brothers: Peter, John, and Nathaniel come from?
Nathan Vess: Bellew & Gosnell Families
Nathan’s wife, Clarinda Bellew is supposedly a descendant of the Gosnell/Bellew families of the Dark Corners of South Carolina (Glassy Mountain, Greenville Co. SC) with her father being John Bellew and her mother being Clarinda Gosnell.
We can find Nathan Vess and John Bellew on the 1830 Rutherford County, North Carolina census record.
On the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record [below], we have Joshua Gosnell (son of Charles Gosnell of Lincoln County, NC) and Abraham Bellew, who is supposedly Clarinda Bellew’s grandfather.
There are numerous records for the Bellew (Belue, Bellew) family in South Carolina, prior to them settling in Glassy Mountain, Greenville County. One record of interest, is a 1774 record for Abraham Belue on Dutchmans Creek along Tyger River [below]. This is dated much earlier than the Vice family; however, Pruitt is a name that appears to be connected to the Pettit and Vice families. Of course, further investigation is needed here too.
Coincidence or Fact: Mac-Hugh Story
According to one of our family’s oral traditions about an O’Donnell-Vess, the Vess family supposedly came over with an O’Neil and an O’Donnell family from Ireland. O’Neill, wanted by the English Crown, supposedly changed his name to Mac Hugh (for his red hair) and was highly respected by the Vess family.
This oral tradition is said to have been very important to the Vess family (descendants of David Andrew Vess and Magnolia Gosnell). Upon further investigation, I found that this story appears to be similar to 2 actual historical events: The O’Donnell and O’Neil clans from Northern Ireland (1500’s) and the infamous outlaw of South Carolina’s Dark Corners, Lewis Redmond.
Knowing more about the Dark Corners of South Carolina and its residents, it is extremely interesting a William “Readmond” and Thomas “Neal”are listed next to the Gosnell and Bellew families on the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census [above]; especially, since the Gosnell and Bellew families settled in Greenville County, South Carolina, in an area where Lewis Redmond will become a well-respected outlaw. Is he a descendant of William Readmond and were the Bellew, Gosnell, and Vess families connected to the Readmond and Neil families?
Willis Vess: Willis, Ligon, and Other Families
Willis Vess was supposedly born in 1810 in North Carolina, but records of him do not appear until 1830 in Franklin County, Alabama. Interestingly, sources say some of the Vice families migrated to Alabama and there is a document on Ancestry.com that was posted in 2011, stating John Roebuck Vise Sr. and Martha Pruitt having had a child named Willis born in 1810. Unfortunately, this does not confirm Willis Vise and Willis Vess are the same person. But, perhaps there is a connection…
The oldest children of Willis Vess and Talitha Whitlock married into the John Willis family who are shown to be neighbors in Foxtrap, Franklin County, Alabama [below].
Looking at South Carolina records, I came across the Ligon name (Robert Ligon) on a land record for John Pool [below]. Note: Pool, Rogers and Meadows have connections with the Vice family.
Then, looking at the Franklin Co. Alabama plat map [below], there in the Foxtrap area with Willis Vess and John Willis, is listed James and Abner Ligon. Further research states that James and Abner Ligon are the sons of Robert Ligon in South Carolina. Also, James Dubois is a family that was in Foxtrap as early as 1820, possibly one of the earlier settlers of the area and Dubois is also a name found in early records of Tyger River community in South Carolina.
Below is another interesting record. Here we find the Nicholls family (also found in Franklin County, Alabama) on a land record with the following families: Meadows (married Nathaniel Vice) Pettit (married Mary Vice) Rogers (neighbors of John Vice) Willis (maybe related to John Willis)
So, I can’t help but wonder: Could Willis Vess be related to the Vice family of South Carolina? And, could John Willis, neighbors of Willis Vess, be related to Richard Willis?
So many interesting discoveries and still so many more questions; butit appears that South Carolina may be the key to unraveling the mysteries of the Vess family!
Although the VESS/VEST family of Patrick County, Virginia (1790-1801) are extremely intriguing and seem like a promising connection, I am drawn back to the Dark Corners of South Carolina. I decided to take another look at Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess. Looking at all my research, I have come to realize that the early families surrounding them, all came from South Carolina.
Peter: Pettit and Toney families. Willis: Nichols, Willis, Askews, Whitlock families (many more) Nathan: Bellew and Gosnell families
Of course, these families all have different origin-origins, like the Pettit family come from New Jersey, the Gosnell family come from Maryland, and the Nichols, Willis, Askews (Eskews) and Whitlock families come from Virginia; but all of them, just before they appear with our earliest known Vess ancestors (Peter, Willis, and Nathan) … were all in South Carolina; more specifically, the Tyger River area.
Tyger River Area: South Carolina’s Complicated Borders
The western portion of South Carolina has a complicated history with very messy borders, making it a nightmare to find family records. For instance, between 1769-1779, Tryon County, North Carolina and the Ninety-Six District in South Carolina overlap. Some residents in this area were issued land from the State of North Carolina while others were issued land from the state of South Carolina.
The Vice Family
I’ve looked for families with similar surnames to VESS in South Carolina a zillion times, but apparently, I overlooked the VICE family.
On the 1810 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I found a John Vice next to Nancy Poole. Nancy Poole reminds me of Nancy Pool, sister of Mary Ann Pool, who married Henry Pettit Sr (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess).
So, I searched the name “John Vice” in the South Carolina Digital Archives. One record of interest is a land record dated 1824 for Benjamin Nicholls on Thomsons Branch along the Tyger River. It includes familiar families such as Duncan, Moore, Nicholls, Pettit, and Willis.
Clearly intrigued, I began to research further…
Many early families are well documented by family historians and generally, with a few odd-ball keywords, a good chunk of their history can be found via Google. I was fortunate to find information pertaining to the VICE family on a Turley Family website.
Who Is John Vice
Land records show that the Vice family has been in the Tyger River community as early as 1782 and numerous sources say some members of the Vice family moved to Benton (now Calhoun) county, Alabama.
Research tells us that John Vice was born in Orange County, Virginia about 1755 and died in Spartanburg County, South Carolina in 1833. He is the son of Nathaniel Camp Vice (1730-1802) of Frederick County, Virginia.
Nathaniel Camp Vice is supposedly the son of Robert or John VESSEY of Frederick County, Virginia; however, the origins of VESSEY are not clear. Nathaniel Camp Vice migrated south and settled in Campbell County, Kentucky with many of his descendants rooting in Bath County, Kentucky.
Nathaniel’s son, John Vice (some note his name as John William Vice), married Frances Roebuck in 1773 in Chatham County, North Carolina, before settling in Spartanburg County, South Carolina. According to the Turley Family website, they had 10 children:
John Roebuck Vise abt. 1774
Nathaniel Vise abt. 1774 and married Dorcas MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Rhoda Vise abt. 1776 and married Peter LAWRENCE.
Levi Vise abt. 1778
George Vise abt. 1780 and married Elizabeth WALKER.
Reuben Vise 1782
Eliphous Hosea “Eli” Vise abt. 1785 and married Rebecca MEADERS. (Meadows?)
Elizabeth Vise 1787 in Spartanburg , SC and married Thomas WRIGHT.
Azariah “Zery” Vise abt. 1790
Jeremiah “Jere” Vise about 1790
Abner Vise about 1792 and married Lucinda PREWITT.
Jemima Vise about 1792
A Tyger River Baptist Church Connection
The Turley family website states: “John Vise and Frances Roebuck Vise were members of the Tyger River Baptist Church, also called Friendship Church. On the membership roll for 1801-1803…”
This is an incredible find, for that the Tyger River Baptist Church was part of the same church association as Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. We also know that the Pettit family were also members of the Tyger River Baptist Church.
According to history.ky.gov, the location of the Tyger River Baptist Church is unknown however is said to have been located in the northern portion of Greenville County, close to the North Carolina border. This would ideally put the church very close to the Glassy Mountain community and the communities along the Pacelot River (North and South Carolina border in modern day Polk County) where we find many early families from Tryon County (like the Logan family).
I bet there are a lot of interesting families listed as members on the Tyger River Baptist Church Membership Rolls; unfortunately, these records do not appear to be available online nor are they physically available near me.
Census Records: Spartanburg County, South Carolina
On the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families: 1. Boston Best 2. Henry Pattit (Pettit) 3. Joshua Pattit (Pettit) 4. John Wice (Vice)
A few pages over, you will find the following families: 1. Abraham Belue (Bellew) 2. Joshua Gosnell
*The Bise families on the 1790 census might actually be part of the Vise family.
On the 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families interestingly close together: Nat Vice (Nathaniel Vice, John Vice son) John Willis Richard Willis (find him on land records with Vice family)
DNA Connections
Autosomal DNA Results For me, many of the names on the VICE family tree frequently show up in my DNA relatives list, especially via the Turley, McPherson, and White families.
Even more interestingly, I have a long list of distant DNA relatives with family trees showing them as descendants of the VICE family and not just through one VICE family line, but numerous VICE family lines. Most are via John and Nathaniel Vice (sons of John and France Roebuck Vice of South Carolina) and others are from several different descending lines (sons and daughters) from Nathaniel Camp Vice in Kentucky. And, to make it even more interesting, they share DNA relatives with DNA relatives who are descendants on the Willis Vess line.
Pettit – Vice Connection The granddaughter of John Vice married Benjamin Pettit who is related to Henry Pettit Sr. (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess) through Joshua Pettit.
John Vice and Henry Pettit have a common neighbor: Andrew Thomson. *Correction: Andrew Thomson maybe the surveyor. 1. 1784 land record: Pacelot River / Ninety-six District Henry Pettit, William Pool, and Andrew Thomson 2. 1786 land record: Tyger River / Ninety-six District John Vise, Andrew Thomson, John Oshields, Joel Hembree, David Grimes, John Butler *Pettit and Hembree families are related.
The Next Chapter: Vice Family
I am really excited about discovering the Vice family! Not only do they have a similar surname to VESS, but they are also in the right place at the right time, surrounded by many familiar families that connect with Peter, Willis, and Nathan!
Also, because the Vice family is supposedly from Frederick County, Virginia, there is still a chance for a possible connection with the Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia! So, I am extremely excited!! This could be our family’s missing link OR I am embarking upon another goose-chase!
While investigating Willis Vess, I may have found my way back to the Patrick County, VA Vess/Vest family!
My game plan to try to uncover the origins of the Alabama Vess family include looking at maps, neighbors, spouses, genealogy records (census, land, probate, etc), and the history of Alabama.
Investigating Land Records
Franklin County, Alabama was first established in 1818, before Alabama became a state (December 14, 1819). Records of early settlers of northern portions of Alabama may be found in the Mississippi Territory records. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any records of interest.
The earliest record I’ve found on Willis Vess is an 1830 census record for Franklin County, Alabama. However, he is listed as being between the ages of 30-40, living with two females between the ages of 15-30. This does not appear to match the timeline reported on family trees. Also, he is 10 years younger in the 1840 census (listed as being between the ages of 20-30). Census records are notorious for their mistakes.
Interestingly, on the 1830 census record, I do recognize two familiar family names next to Willis Vess: SUGG and THARP.
Willis Vess lived near both of them and the Sugg family has records as early as 1819. In fact, despite the 1820 Alabama census record being supposedly incomplete, it does contain some families from the Foxtrap area [THARP, SUGG, MATLOCK, THOMPSON, and DEBOIS].
Littleberry Matlock is shown on the Alabama Genweb plat map, living next to Willis Vess. Further research reveals that he married Phoebe Tharp whose father is Robert Tharp (1820 censusabove) and supposedly (not confirmed yet) her mother is a Thompson from Rutherford County, North Carolina. Interesting!
After 1830, we believe Willis Vess married Talitha Whitlock; unfortunately, I have not been able to find a marriage record. However, we do know a lot about the Whitlock family due to extensive research by Anna Popejoy and published works by the Whitlock Newsletter via Google. The Whitlock family arrived in Alabama in 1820 and lived in an area referred to as Saints cross (which is near Foxtrap). I figure this may be how Willis Vess and Talitha Whitlock met each other.
The oldest children of Willis and Talitha Vess married into the Willis family, which may suggest the Vess and Willis families were close (they were close neighbors shown on the map below) and it is believed that the Willis family may have connections with the parents of Willis Vess (no evidence yet).
I do not know when the Willis family arrived in Franklin Alabama, however, both John Willis and Willis Vess appear on the 1830 census record (several pages apart).
Looking at the President’s name on their undated land records for Franklin County, Alabama, it appears that John Willis purchased land near the Foxtrap area before Willis Vess. John Willis’ record [No. 5972] was signed by Andrew Jackson who was President between 1829-1837 and Willis Vess’ record [No. 8737] was signed by Martin Van Buren who was President between 1837-1841.
The map below (looking at surrounding families) seem to have been something that was put together sometime after the 1850’s. The earliest known neighbor near Willis Vess is James Dubois [No. 8705, also issued in 1837] who is seen on the 1820 census record (above). The land record for John Willis signed by Present Andrew Jackson is not dated, but was likely issued between 1829-1837 and land records No. 19711 and 19712 was signed between 1857-1861 when James Buchanan was President. Unfortunately, nothing seems to reveal any clues about the Vess family prior to 1830.
Willis Vess appears to have owned several properties in the Foxtrap area.
I found 3 land records for Willis Vess: No. 8737 August 5, 1837 No. 20457 & 20252 April 2, 1857*No. 20451 & 20452 on map (above) No. 25798 March 1, 1858 (William Vess as heir) *No. 25797 on map (above)
Who is William Vess? None of the family trees I have come across for Willis Vess have a William Vess on them, so I am not entirely sure who he is; however, it certainly makes my next discovery extremely intriguing…
1846 Tennessee Record: Peter, Willis, William Vess/ Vest
There is one Willis Vess record that intrigues me the most and it is a land record for White County, Tennessee (1846) on Caney Fork.
Willis Vess of White County, Tennessee, appears to have 2 land records for a property on Caney Fork: No. 2012 dated 1831 No. 9156 (addition to No. 2012) dated 1849
The property interestingly joins Daniel Dotson (Dodson).
Looking at census records, I do not see a Willis Vess; however, there is an 1820 and 1830 census record for Peter Vest, whose neighbor is Daniel Dotson (Dodson).
In addition, there is also a William Vess. He also purchases land in 1831 No. 2071, whose property takes over land once owned by John Medley (see 1820 censusabove). William Dodson and Sam Moore are witnesses listed on the record. William Vess can be found on the 1830 census record. Is this William Vess, the William Vess who is “heir” to the Willis Vess of Alabama’s 1858 land record in Franklin County, Alabama??
And, furthermore, is this Peter Vest, the same Peter Vest listed on the Patrick Co. Deeds (1791-1941 Indexes, grantor pg. 77 on FHL Film 33,333) with wife “Margaret,” who appears to have land next to the Dodson family on North Fork in Patrick County, Virginia? A 1793 transaction which was witnessed by George Dodson Sr., George Dodson Junior, Benjamin Fletcher, and Thomas Dodson.
Perhaps, it is Peter and William Vess of Patrick County, Virginia (Deed Records) on North Fork with William Willis??
Is there an actual connection or is this just coincidence?
Conclusions
Wow!
A Franklin County, Alabama land record for Willis Vess and “heir” William Vess. A Willis and William Vess in White County, Tennessee, with a Peter Vest. All near a Dodson family. And… interestingly, there is a Peter Vess and William Vess in Patrick County, Virginia, not only living next to a Dodson family, but ALSO a Willis family.
I don’t have enough documented evidence to make any solid connections, but I am absolutely intrigued! Tennessee is a mixing pot of Vest, Voss, Vaulx, and Vess families! Hopefully, with more research, we can determine which family the Vess/Vest family of White County, Tennessee belongs to!
I am extremely excited to announce that we have been given the opportunity to start a VESS FAMILY DNA PROJECT!
A huge thanks to Marilyn Barton, for allowing us to revive her Vess Family DNA project on Familytreedna.com and also, a huge thanks to Michael Travers and Vincent Vess for managing it for us!
How To Join?
To join and participate, you must have an account with Familytreedna.com.
Click on this link for step-by-step instructions from yourdnaguide.com.
How Long Does The Transfer Process Take
Familytreedna.com states it takes 3-5 business days to process, but some reviews state it could be as quick as a few hours; it all depends on how many transfers they have to process (it’s a queue system).
However, you can join the Vess Family DNA Project and explore public Haplotrees while you wait for your results to process.
$19 To Access Additional Tools
It is my understanding that a free account opened by transferring DNA results from another vendor, allows you access to FamilyFinder and DNA Projects. However, one must pay $19 to unlock additional tools such as the Chromosome Browser, MyOrigins, and AncientOrigins.
Which isn’t that bad, considering you’re not having to buy an expensive DNA kit again or pay any kind of subscription to continue to access information.
Who Can Participate?
Any member of Familytreedna.com can join the Vess Family DNA Project! It is my understanding that this DNA project is not restricted to any specific type of testers and thus, all DNA tests are able to provide valuable information to the project.
Information provided by Autosomal DNA testers (both genders) allow us to make new family connections.
Information provided by mtDNA testers allow us to explore maternal roots.
Information provided by Y-DNA testers allow us to identify and connect different VESS/ VOSS/VASS/ VEST family lines.
Information provided by Big-Y testers allow us to further investigate and unravel the mystery between the Vess and Travers families.
The more participants, the more DNA information we can obtain and analyze, and then the more connections we can make!
Transferring Y-DNA Test Results
If you have already done a Y-DNA test through a different company that used the Sorenson 33 or 46-marker test, you can transfer your results to Familytreedna.com to participate in the Y-DNA portion of the Vess Family DNA Project.
You aren’t a true VESS unless you have a vintage Vess Cola sign or bottle displayed somewhere in your home!
Hanging in my kitchen, is a vintage 1950 VESS COLA tin sign that I inherited from my family and eventually, (if they still have it) I will probably inherit my family’s most valuable flower vase, a vintage VESS COLA bottle.
It’s just a fun thing that nearly every VESS family does and surprisingly, VESS COLA has nothing to do with the VESS family!
History of Vess Cola
Vess Cola is quite popular and there are a lot of articles online about its complicated history.
Vess Cola is a brand of soda named after Vess Jones of St. Louis, Missouri; “Vess” being short for Sylvester.
According to Collectors Weekly, Sylvester “Vess” Jones, is the original founder of the Orange Whistle Company (1915), later to be known as The Whistle Company. History is a bit confusing, for that his company had a lot of changes throughout the years, including a bankruptcy after the Depression, several different owners and name changes.
The Vess brand appears to have been created in the 1920’s and The Whistle Company eventually changed its company name to the Vess Beverage Company. Original flavors included Cola, Cream, Grape, Blueberry, Fruit Punch, Strawberry and Blue Raspberry. In the 1970’s, they sold a Chocolate drink that is said to be comparable to Yahoo.
It is my understanding that before the Vess Cola brand, there was the Orange Whistle soda, which was created and sold by a man named Charles Leiper Grigg working for Vess Jones. Some sources say he left The Whistle Company after butting heads with Vess Jones. Grigg eventually started his own company and in 1929, he introduced the world to the amazing lemon-lime creation known today as 7UP!
Not bottled as fancy as their predecessors, but they sure do look colorful!
Today, Vess Cola is owned by Cott Beverages, Inc. and there is supposedly 27 flavors of Vess Cola available today!
The first flavor of Vess-Cola I ever tried was lemon-lime, which is kind of blah compared to other brands and nowhere as crisp as 7UP. However, their grape and strawberry flavors aren’t too bad. They even have Vess-Cola seltzer!
I am amazed that Vess Cola is still around and I believe the variety of delicious fruit flavors makes the brand so unique.
Finding Vess Cola can sometimes be difficult, because they are often hidden behind all the other big soda brands on the shelf. So, it’s best to check the bottom shelves or the specialty soda section (due to their fruit flavors). I have found grocery stores to be the best place to find Vess Cola and occasionally, you may get lucky with Walmart.
Please share with us! Tell us what kind of Vess Cola collectable you have and let us know if you’ve tried any of the Vess Cola flavors.
I am so thrilled to have finally reached a new chapter in Vess Genealogy!
When I started this blog last Fall (August 2020), it was simply just a place to organize digital sources and share my genealogy experiences researching the Vess name. I gave it 2 months!
Remarkably, Vess Genealogy kept on going! I never would have ever imagined I would get to work with so many different people interested in the VESS name nor get an opportunity to meet so many different VESS families! This has been such an amazing genealogy adventure!
A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone helping me unravel the mysteries of the VESS family!
If New To Vess Genealogy, Here’s What You Missed!
For generations, three different VESS lines (maybe more) haven’t been able find their ancestors prior to 1820. A frustrating endeavor leaving many of us to just give up.
However, since last Fall, we achieved the following:
1. We learned more about Peter Vess and his family. 2. We learned a lot about Andrew Logan Vess and his family. 3. We likely uncovered Nathan’s origins in the Dark Corners of South Carolina. 4. We discovered that Peter and Willis Vess are closely related and that our family is closely related to the Travers family! 5. We explored families in Knob’s Creek from Peter’s 1820 census record. 6. We discovered “Vess” records in Virginia connected to an unknown Vest/Vess family! 8. We confirmed (via DNA) that the VESS family is not related to the BASS, BEST, WEST, or VEST families; eliminating them as possible family connections.
Brief Recap On Vess Genealogy
We now know that Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess are related; however, we have not yet determined how they are related to each other.
Peter and Willis were born in North Carolina and Nathan was born in South Carolina. Peter first appears on record in Rutherford County, North Carolina in 1820 on Knobs Creek with the Toney, Pettit, and Mooney families (all members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church).
Nathan’s first appearance on record is also in Rutherford County, North Carolina, but in 1830 with his in-laws, the Bellew family. The Bellew and Gosnell families are related and are prominent families in Glassy Mountain, Greenville County, South Carolina (aka Dark Corners). Also, Peter’s grandson, David Andrew Vess married Magnolia “Maggie” Gosnell, who is related to Nathan’s wife, Clarinda Bellew.
Willis first appears on record in Franklin County, Alabama in 1830. According to Anna Popejoy, long time researcher of the Vess and Whitlock families, states that the father of Willis Vess (John Vess) had been living in Foxtrap since 1819. Y-DNA analysis, via familytreedna.com, confirms Willis Vess and Peter Vess (Andrew Logan Vess) are definitely part of the same VESS family.
Familytreedna.com (FTDNA) also shows that the VESS and TRAVERS family are closely related; however, we do not know how they are related. There are several reasons as to why FTDNA may group two different surnames closely together; either we are extremely close cousins, one family that split apart during a time before surnames, or a male Travers ancestor took on the Vess name (orvice versa).To unravel this mystery, it would be extremely helpful to have more male Vess descendants participate in Y-DNA Testing.
The Travers family is from Lancashire, England and they have traced their family to Dorchester, Maryland. Whether there is a connection between the Vess and Travers family in Colonial America has yet to be discovered (the families may have split long before they arrived in America).
With the help of Y-DNA and documented family histories, we’ve been able to eliminate the BASS, BEST, WEST, and VEST families as potential ancestors for the Vess family.
The BASS family has a rich Native American background. The BEST family (original surname BOSCH) can trace their family back to their arrival in the 1740’s with the Ecker family (in-laws) from Germany. The WEST family has been ruled out by their extensive West Family DNA Project. And the VEST family, descendants of John Daniel Vest belong to an entirely different Haplogroup than our VESS family. To my knowledge, there is no available DNA information on the VASS/VOSS/ VAULX families.
We have recently discovered a VEST/VESS family in Patrick County, Virginia who may be related to the VEST/VESS family in Rockbridge, Virginia. We have yet to find any records suggesting that they may belong to the VEST family (John Daniel Vest), which is extremely encouraging for our VESS family, andtherefore a new chapter begins!
I am in the process of investigating the Life of Willis Vess and hopefully, with any luck, we can uncover some of Anna Popejoy’s research to help us! I plan to explore more families in and surrounding Patrick County, Virginia – including Surry and Stokes County, North Carolina. All in addition to finding out more about the VOSS/VASS/ VAULX families who seem to live very close to the TRAVERS family in both Dorchester, Maryland and the abolished Albemarle County in North Carolina.
Vess Genealogy 