Month: May 2021

Vess Genealogy: South Carolina Connections

/ J. V.

Research strongly suggests that Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess may have common connections in South Carolina. In this post, we begin to explore these possible connections.

Please note that the opinions and thoughts in this post are based on my own personal point of view researching these families. Links to sources are provided to allow the reader / researcher to form their own opinions, thoughts, and conclusions.

Mapping Out Families

Using information obtained by South Carolina Digital Records, I was able to map a few families that may have connections with our earliest known ancestors: Pool, Pettit, Bellew, and Willis families.
*Toney and Nicholl records have also been found, but are not mapped above.

  • Pool and Pettit families lived along the Pacelot River below Lawson’s Fork.
  • Bellew and Willis families lived along Fair Forest Creek.
  • Vice and Hembree families lived along Cain Creek branching out from the Tyger River.

Peter Vess: Pettit & Toney Families

According to Peter’s 1820 census record, he is listed next to David Mooney, Henry Pettit, James Young, and Abraham Toney. The Pettit and Toney families married each other and were members of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess. [Bill’s Creek Baptist Church: Two Hundred Year History, by Helen M. Lu].

According to North Carolina’s Land grants and deed website and various other sources, David Mooney’s family has been in this area of North Carolina since the 1760’s (Tryon County), having traveled with the Eacker family. Living nearby in Lincoln County, North Carolina is the Boston Best and Charles Gosnell family. Boston Best has early land records in Tryon County, but I not sure if those properties are in modern-day North Carolina or South Carolina.

Interestingly, Boston Best (I believe to be Jr.) is on the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record [below] near Henry Pettit, while his father Boston Best Sr. is listed next to Charles Gosnell in the 1790 Lincoln County, North Carolina census record. Charles Gosnell’s son, Joshua Gosnell, is listed next to Abraham Belue (Bellew) on the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record – a few pages over from Henry Pettit.

Also, John Vice/Vise is on the same page of the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record as Henry Pettit, but listed as John “Wise.” We can safely assume John “Wise” is John Vice, based on other families on the same page, such as Joel Hembree (Embry) who is a neighbor of John Vice per land records.

We know the Toney family was also in South Carolina. They appear to have been in South Carolina as early as the Revolutionary War (like Henry Pettit). I found a Toney family with a land record in Tyger River dated the same year that John Vice obtained land in the Tyger River area too [below].

According to family trees for the Toney family, Abraham Toney of Rutherford County, North Carolina (with Peter Vess) is supposedly related to Timothy Toney of South Carolina. There are numerous Abraham’s on the family tree and 2 of them went by William (Abraham William Toney) which has caused a lot of confusion, so further research is needed to confirm the two Toney families are related.


Also, I see John Stovall next to Henry Pettit on the 1790 census.
I believe Ann Pool, Henry’s wife, is related to the Stovall family (her maternal line) and the Stovall family had connections with the prominent PENN and HAIRSTON families in Patrick County, Virginia where we find William and Peter Vess [1790-1801 Patrick County Deeds].

Dunneway is also an interesting name on the 1790 census [above]. There is a marriage record for Nathaniel Vice and Sarah Dunaway in Kentucky (1802). This is supposedly Nathaniel Vice Jr., brother of John Vice Sr. in South Carolina. There appears to be confusion over the numerous Nathaniels in the Vice family tree, so it is not certain how they are actually connected, further research is needed.

According to the Vice family trees, Nathaniel and John Vice are brothers…do they, perhaps have a brother named Peter? And, would this Peter have been the Peter from Patrick County, Virginia? If the VICE and VESS families are the same family, is this where our oral tradition about the three brothers: Peter, John, and Nathaniel come from?

Nathan Vess: Bellew & Gosnell Families

Nathan’s wife, Clarinda Bellew is supposedly a descendant of the Gosnell/Bellew families of the Dark Corners of South Carolina (Glassy Mountain, Greenville Co. SC) with her father being John Bellew and her mother being Clarinda Gosnell.

We can find Nathan Vess and John Bellew on the 1830 Rutherford County, North Carolina census record.

On the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census record [below], we have Joshua Gosnell (son of Charles Gosnell of Lincoln County, NC) and Abraham Bellew, who is supposedly Clarinda Bellew’s grandfather.


There are numerous records for the Bellew (Belue, Bellew) family in South Carolina, prior to them settling in Glassy Mountain, Greenville County. One record of interest, is a 1774 record for Abraham Belue on Dutchmans Creek along Tyger River [below]. This is dated much earlier than the Vice family; however, Pruitt is a name that appears to be connected to the Pettit and Vice families. Of course, further investigation is needed here too.


Coincidence or Fact: Mac-Hugh Story

According to one of our family’s oral traditions about an O’Donnell-Vess, the Vess family supposedly came over with an O’Neil and an O’Donnell family from Ireland. O’Neill, wanted by the English Crown, supposedly changed his name to Mac Hugh (for his red hair) and was highly respected by the Vess family.

This oral tradition is said to have been very important to the Vess family (descendants of David Andrew Vess and Magnolia Gosnell). Upon further investigation, I found that this story appears to be similar to 2 actual historical events: The O’Donnell and O’Neil clans from Northern Ireland (1500’s) and the infamous outlaw of South Carolina’s Dark Corners, Lewis Redmond.

Knowing more about the Dark Corners of South Carolina and its residents, it is extremely interesting a William “Readmond” and Thomas “Neal”are listed next to the Gosnell and Bellew families on the 1790 Spartanburg County, South Carolina census [above]; especially, since the Gosnell and Bellew families settled in Greenville County, South Carolina, in an area where Lewis Redmond will become a well-respected outlaw. Is he a descendant of William Readmond and were the Bellew, Gosnell, and Vess families connected to the Readmond and Neil families?

Willis Vess: Willis, Ligon, and Other Families

Willis Vess was supposedly born in 1810 in North Carolina, but records of him do not appear until 1830 in Franklin County, Alabama. Interestingly, sources say some of the Vice families migrated to Alabama and there is a document on Ancestry.com that was posted in 2011, stating John Roebuck Vise Sr. and Martha Pruitt having had a child named Willis born in 1810. Unfortunately, this does not confirm Willis Vise and Willis Vess are the same person. But, perhaps there is a connection…

The oldest children of Willis Vess and Talitha Whitlock married into the John Willis family who are shown to be neighbors in Foxtrap, Franklin County, Alabama [below].

Looking at South Carolina records, I came across the Ligon name (Robert Ligon) on a land record for John Pool [below]. Note: Pool, Rogers and Meadows have connections with the Vice family.

Then, looking at the Franklin Co. Alabama plat map [below], there in the Foxtrap area with Willis Vess and John Willis, is listed James and Abner Ligon. Further research states that James and Abner Ligon are the sons of Robert Ligon in South Carolina. Also, James Dubois is a family that was in Foxtrap as early as 1820, possibly one of the earlier settlers of the area and Dubois is also a name found in early records of Tyger River community in South Carolina.

Below is another interesting record.
Here we find the Nicholls family (also found in Franklin County, Alabama) on a land record with the following families: Meadows (married Nathaniel Vice)
Pettit (married Mary Vice)
Rogers (neighbors of John Vice)
Willis (maybe related to John Willis)

So, I can’t help but wonder: Could Willis Vess be related to the Vice family of South Carolina? And, could John Willis, neighbors of Willis Vess, be related to Richard Willis?

So many interesting discoveries and still so many more questions; but it appears that South Carolina may be the key to unraveling the mysteries of the Vess family!

John Vice: The Missing Link To Vess Genealogy?

/ J. V.

Although the VESS/VEST family of Patrick County, Virginia (1790-1801) are extremely intriguing and seem like a promising connection, I am drawn back to the Dark Corners of South Carolina. I decided to take another look at Peter, Willis, and Nathan Vess. Looking at all my research, I have come to realize that the early families surrounding them, all came from South Carolina.

Peter: Pettit and Toney families.
Willis: Nichols, Willis, Askews, Whitlock families (many more)
Nathan: Bellew and Gosnell families

Of course, these families all have different origin-origins, like the Pettit family come from New Jersey, the Gosnell family come from Maryland, and the Nichols, Willis, Askews (Eskews) and Whitlock families come from Virginia; but all of them, just before they appear with our earliest known Vess ancestors (Peter, Willis, and Nathan) … were all in South Carolina; more specifically, the Tyger River area.

Tyger River Area: South Carolina’s Complicated Borders

The western portion of South Carolina has a complicated history with very messy borders, making it a nightmare to find family records. For instance, between 1769-1779, Tryon County, North Carolina and the Ninety-Six District in South Carolina overlap. Some residents in this area were issued land from the State of North Carolina while others were issued land from the state of South Carolina.

The Vice Family

I’ve looked for families with similar surnames to VESS in South Carolina a zillion times, but apparently, I overlooked the VICE family.

On the 1810 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, I found a John Vice next to Nancy Poole. Nancy Poole reminds me of Nancy Pool, sister of Mary Ann Pool, who married Henry Pettit Sr (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess).

So, I searched the name “John Vice” in the South Carolina Digital Archives.
One record of interest is a land record dated 1824 for Benjamin Nicholls on Thomsons Branch along the Tyger River. It includes familiar families such as Duncan, Moore, Nicholls, Pettit, and Willis.

Clearly intrigued, I began to research further…

Many early families are well documented by family historians and generally, with a few odd-ball keywords, a good chunk of their history can be found via Google. I was fortunate to find information pertaining to the VICE family on a Turley Family website.

Who Is John Vice

Land records show that the Vice family has been in the Tyger River community as early as 1782 and numerous sources say some members of the Vice family moved to Benton (now Calhoun) county, Alabama.

Research tells us that John Vice was born in Orange County, Virginia about 1755 and died in Spartanburg County, South Carolina in 1833. He is the son of Nathaniel Camp Vice (1730-1802) of Frederick County, Virginia.

Nathaniel Camp Vice is supposedly the son of Robert or John VESSEY of Frederick County, Virginia; however, the origins of VESSEY are not clear. Nathaniel Camp Vice migrated south and settled in Campbell County, Kentucky with many of his descendants rooting in Bath County, Kentucky.

Nathaniel’s son, John Vice (some note his name as John William Vice), married Frances Roebuck in 1773 in Chatham County, North Carolina, before settling in Spartanburg County, South Carolina. According to the Turley Family website, they had 10 children:

John Roebuck Vise abt. 1774

Nathaniel Vise abt. 1774 and married Dorcas MEADERS. (Meadows?)

Rhoda Vise abt. 1776 and married Peter LAWRENCE.

Levi Vise abt. 1778

George Vise  abt. 1780 and married Elizabeth WALKER.

Reuben Vise  1782

Eliphous Hosea “Eli” Vise abt. 1785 and married Rebecca MEADERS. (Meadows?)

Elizabeth Vise 1787 in Spartanburg , SC and married Thomas WRIGHT.

Azariah “Zery” Vise  abt. 1790

Jeremiah “Jere” Vise about 1790

Abner Vise about 1792 and married Lucinda PREWITT.

Jemima Vise about 1792

A Tyger River Baptist Church Connection


The Turley family website states: “John Vise and Frances Roebuck Vise were members of the Tyger River Baptist Church, also called Friendship Church. On the membership roll for 1801-1803…” 

This is an incredible find, for that the Tyger River Baptist Church was part of the same church association as Bill’s Creek Baptist Church. We also know that the Pettit family were also members of the Tyger River Baptist Church.

According to history.ky.gov, the location of the Tyger River Baptist Church is unknown however is said to have been located in the northern portion of Greenville County, close to the North Carolina border. This would ideally put the church very close to the Glassy Mountain community and the communities along the Pacelot River (North and South Carolina border in modern day Polk County) where we find many early families from Tryon County (like the Logan family).

I bet there are a lot of interesting families listed as members on the Tyger River Baptist Church Membership Rolls; unfortunately, these records do not appear to be available online nor are they physically available near me.

Census Records: Spartanburg County, South Carolina

On the 1790 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families:
1. Boston Best
2. Henry Pattit (Pettit)
3. Joshua Pattit (Pettit)
4. John Wice (Vice)

A few pages over, you will find the following families:
1. Abraham Belue (Bellew)
2. Joshua Gosnell

*The Bise families on the 1790 census might actually be part of the Vise family.

On the 1800 census record for Spartanburg County, South Carolina, you will find the following families interestingly close together:
Nat Vice (Nathaniel Vice, John Vice son)
John Willis
Richard Willis (find him on land records with Vice family)


DNA Connections

Autosomal DNA Results
For me, many of the names on the VICE family tree frequently show up in my DNA relatives list, especially via the Turley, McPherson, and White families.

Even more interestingly, I have a long list of distant DNA relatives with family trees showing them as descendants of the VICE family and not just through one VICE family line, but numerous VICE family lines. Most are via John and Nathaniel Vice (sons of John and France Roebuck Vice of South Carolina) and others are from several different descending lines (sons and daughters) from Nathaniel Camp Vice in Kentucky. And, to make it even more interesting, they share DNA relatives with DNA relatives who are descendants on the Willis Vess line.

Pettit – Vice Connection
The granddaughter of John Vice married Benjamin Pettit who is related to Henry Pettit Sr. (neighbor and member of Bill’s Creek Baptist Church with Peter Vess) through Joshua Pettit.

John Vice and Henry Pettit have a common neighbor: Andrew Thomson. *Correction: Andrew Thomson maybe the surveyor.
1. 1784 land record: Pacelot River / Ninety-six District Henry Pettit, William Pool, and Andrew Thomson
2. 1786 land record: Tyger River / Ninety-six District John Vise, Andrew Thomson, John Oshields, Joel Hembree, David Grimes, John Butler *Pettit and Hembree families are related.

The Next Chapter: Vice Family

I am really excited about discovering the Vice family! Not only do they have a similar surname to VESS, but they are also in the right place at the right time, surrounded by many familiar families that connect with Peter, Willis, and Nathan!

Also, because the Vice family is supposedly from Frederick County, Virginia, there is still a chance for a possible connection with the Vess/Vest family in Patrick County, Virginia!

So, I am extremely excited!! This could be our family’s missing link OR I am embarking upon another goose-chase!